Arkashean Q&A Session -- 004
CORA: Why do I trade off my values to get my dad's acceptance?
THERRY: Perhaps you traded off the values in order to get out of pain.
CORA: Well, I can see that. As far as the thing you said before as far as a trust versus a mistrust factor, I don't trust very easily.
THERRY: How could you? Where would that trust, if you had any, where would it come from?
CORA: Well, that's a good point. I'm always suspicious of people. I'm always suspicious of what they want or that they'll just hurt me. If it's not anything of what they want, it's just that they'd hurt me or they're going to be weird or...
THERRY: And where would that come from?
CORA: Well, the thing about them using me or for them to want something...
THERRY: Where would that come from?
CORA: That part... my Dad.
THERRY: How do you know that?
CORA: Why do I do the same thing that I hate in my dad... Because he has a value about people using you or not letting people use you or not letting people take advantage of you. As far as... but as far as no faith...
THERRY: Aren't they one and the same thing? How can there be faith if there's no trust? How can you separate one from the other?
CORA: That's true. I guess you can't. When you talk about delaying gratification, I sometimes I think that if I do everything right, I'll get my reward in the end, so to speak, and it'll be worth it, and other times I don't think I'll never get it and I'd end up with nothing so I should take things now. That pattern was pretty much on the mark. I got tired of doing everything right and never having what I wanted. Everybody else in the neighborhood got the women so to speak, which is the one big thing that I had that I hadn't wanted. Every time someone else new came into town, somebody else went out with them, because of what they were willing to do and I never did. Someone else new in the community, I made up my mind that this one was mine although I didn't know that she was married at the time. So, not that it was worth it...all I got was a lot of pain. So now I'm back to square one, because that certainly didn't work and I felt real guilty about going against my values and I realized through other things that happened this summer that I had a shitty attitude towards things and...but I guess that was just kin'da of a culmination of a lot of things that happened.
THERRY: If you can link their sources, then perhaps you can better understand.
CORA: As best as I can tell, their source for me was being lonely, knowing what I wanted.
THERRY: That's an effect, that's not a cause, even though it itself becomes a cause.
CORA: I mean otherwise, lots of people in my class were getting married, now that school was over, and kin'da had this idea in my mind, that school was over. Well, there were a number of things, school was over, I was going to settle down, because that seems to be the pattern and that I didn't have to trade off relationships for everything else. I guess I felt that in a lot of ways, I traded off relationships for school and relationships for everything else and I decided that I didn't want to trade off the relationship this time. At least, that was the conscious message I was giving myself. I didn't realize I was trading off whatever values I had left in the process... That was not my intent. But it was my intent not to let everything else stand in the way of my relationship and then it kin'da got complicated because when I was...when I looked...I'm never quite sure how to talk abut the communications that I get from my higher self. Should I just say my inner self? I mean, is that accurate?
THERRY: It's just as accurate as any other.
CORA: I have a question that is bothering me... Well, when I looked into my inner self or received communications to come here, well, that also interfered with an aspect of the relationship, even though it wasn't going very well at the time, which is what brought up the thing that if it had been a better relationship, I would still have the same problem if I was told to do something for my growth that interfered with my relationship, then which would I choose? And it was at that point that I was...
THERRY: ...which brings the importance for you of why it is important for you to recognize where the pattern comes from. If you don't understand where the lack of tenacity comes from towards your value systems, then how could you possibly hope to change it? You're talking about an emotional method of dealing with stress, specifically, pain and want. If you don't know where your pain comes from and you don't understand it, how could you possible hope to control it? It's obvious that everybody has wants and everybody has pain, but the pain of want is a pretty specific and powerful tool. There are indications that within you, that specific pain was created from the relationship, the rejection, on again, off again relationship between you and your Dad. And to a great degree your masculinity also comes from them. It's the perfect pattern of the battered child where the battered child adopts what the child views as a way of behavior that will gratify the batterer and hence hope to get the love or whatever . If you remember the Patty Hearst thing was the same way.
CORA: How so?
THERRY: She took over the values of her kidnapper. She was a hostage as you were hostage to your Dad's love. It's the same basic pattern. It's too bad that we can't know for sure if her value changed during the hostage situation or if they changed before.
CORA: You believe they really changed?
THERRY: Yes. I believe she, like you, was in conflict with the money that she was able to possess. Of course, that doesn't relieve her of her behavior.
CORA: No, that's true.
THERRY: But at least that allows you to understand where it comes from.
CORA: I thought she was just brainwashed or else they just took a picture of it and she was under duress to do it?
THERRY: Well, isn't that the whole battered syndrome...being under duress?
CORA: I was talking about duress of having someone threaten to blow her head off but...
THERRY: Duress is duress is duress. Every individual has different thresholds.
CORA: Yeah, I guess that's true.
THERRY: It doesn't much matter to the pattern of duress if the stress comes from a gun threatening to blow your head off or a beloved father threatening to totally disown you. To the individual that's going through the pain, it's the same.
CORA: Is it true to tell myself... Well, nevertheless, I've gotta figure out how to stop swinging back and forth and how to figure out priorities and values.
THERRY: Perhaps you'll be able to stop swinging back and forth in your values once you've made the connection that there seems to be a correlation...a positive correlation between the acceptance factor of your Dad and your swinging. Once you make that recognition, perhaps you'll be able to separate the two and therefore learn to gain stability within your own values.
CORA: Well, what do I do until then?
THERRY: I could be comical and say cry, but then you're doing that anyway internally.
CORA: Crying is not good enough, I have to change it.
THERRY: But only you can do it.
CORA: That's true.
THERRY: It goes back to the old adage, when the pain gets big enough, you will.
CORA: So then how does one prioritize values?...getting back to another aspect of the question that we started on. I started off by saying that there were three major categories...First of all, are they values? Is being gay a value?
THERRY: No. That's a way of life. It is controlled by values.
CORA: an a person be an honorable person and still be gay?
CORA: So being gay is not in conflict with values, it just is?
THERRY: Well, it's in conflict with religious values of the society even though it is not itself a value.
CORA: Is being gay... is it in conflict with Arkashean values?
THERRY: No. It's inconceivable for Arkashea to accept the fact that the Universe would denigrate one of its own creations. It may be inappropriate in many situations but it's not in conflict.
CORA: Okay, is it because we have a lifestyle with its own needs and desires?
THERRY: ...and inconsistencies.
CORA: And inconsistencies? How so?
THERRY: Because that lifestyle has to be lived within the borders or within the limits of an additional lifestyle.
CORA: Is the additional lifestyle because we live in a Christian society, or is the additional lifestyle just being other values?
THERRY: Both so they will automatically be areas of conflict simply by the fact that being gay is a subculture and in many areas, it is considered to be a counterculture. You have to take those things into account when you try to understand the situation. But just because something is considered to be a counterculture doesn't necessary make it automatically wrong. It simply makes it inappropriate and trade-offs then come into resolve that conflict.
CORA: Are the trade-offs Like lying about your lifestyle?
THERRY: Whatever. Many people try to resolve it by living dual roles.
CORA: Some people resolve it by going to a place where they can live and be out.
THERRY: That's true. It doesn't matter how you resolve it. The only thing that matters is that you like yourself for whatever choice you have made. Guilt is such a useless trip.
CORA: Is... The next aspect of my statement was feminism, which could either be a belief or a value?
THERRY: Or a point of difference or a game.
CORA: If somebody...if I say I am a feminist, what does that make it?
THERRY: A point of observation, a belief system. It also could be a game. Just because you claim to be feminist that doesn't automatically make you one. Only you within your own heart knows for sure what you are. The rest of the people can never determine if the face that you show the world is in fact your face or if it's just a role. That gets back to basic value systems again.
CORA: Well, if you're honest with yourself and there's a lot of different reasons for you to be somewhere, then ...I guess being dishonest with other people makes me anxious, surprisingly enough, even though I'm as dishonest with other people as I am...At least, I think I am being honest with myself. When I think I'm not, I get anxious. I don't...
THERRY: Understandably, because honesty happens to be a prime value.
CORA: Of anybody or just me? I mean when you say that are you just referring to me?
THERRY: Usually everybody except for those who have no conscience. Although prejudice will bend the truth a little bit, it is still a prime value.
CORA: Because without honesty there'd be no trust between people?
THERRY: And therefore no stability.
CORA: And I do take pride in trying to say what I'm doing and doing it.
CORA: Sometimes. Generally, in the outside world that's been one of my more successful tasks, although around here it may leave something to be desired. So if I have all these ambiguous feelings...or not feelings...competing reasons for like being in NOW, primarily being to pick up women or to meet new women...
THERRY: None of them are inconsistent with each other, so it really doesn't matter. It is a natural state to have many different reasons for doing the same thing.
CORA: And none of those are values, are they?
THERRY: No, they don't have to be, no. They're simply wants that needs gratification.
CORA: And when you talk to yourself, that's how you describe them to yourself, wants that need gratification?
THERRY: That's a good way of looking at it. It's not the only way, but it's one way.
CORA: And to call myself feminist, it's not consistent, but it doesn't have to be a value but it's a belief and you can still be called... you can still call yourself something?
THERRY: you could easily call yourself an inconsistent feminist...
CORA: Well, I do...
THERRY: In your case, it would be more valid than calling yourself a feminist, because there are periods when you couldn't care two beats for the feminist movement and other times, hey, you're right there in headstrong. There's nothing wrong with that so long as you accept that's what you are.
CORA: Well, there is something. Shouldn't you be consistent?
THERRY: Why? How boring life would be if everybody was consistent?
CORA: That's not true.
THERRY: Yes, it is. There's only a few areas of life where if you want to use the word "should" and "consistent" it's appropriate. One is honor. The other is truthfulness to oneself and to tenacity. These three areas absolutely demand consistency because without consistency in those three areas, self-image and stability, self-actualization pretty much go out the window. You can lie through your teeth to everybody you meet, and it won't cause no great problems so long as you are absolutely honest with yourself at all times.
CORA: You've told me that before but you also told me that the things you're telling to others you're also telling to yourself.
THERRY: But if you tell yourself that you're playing a role and this is absolutely necessary for the specific set of circumstances AND if you take into account the value systems of the people you're talking to and their relative situations, then you simply meet the needs of the situation. If the situation demands that you give up a little white life, you're still lying through your teeth, and you know it, but it still meets the needs of the situation and its better than creating an enemy. I mean if a painted lady comes up to you that is grotesque as all hell and she comes up to you and says, "Hey, how do I look?" Well, it'd be stupid for you to say, "Oh, you look beautiful," when in fact...rather it would be stupid for you to say, "You look terrible witch!" instead of saying, "it's not bad, you look pretty good.." It takes care of the needs of the situation even though you know you're lying through your teeth, hey, you also know it's a role that you're playing.
CORA: So your axiom wouldn't be honesty?
THERRY: The axiom is honesty to yourself -- Maat. Do you have the ability to recognize the need of playing a role in given situations? And how you behave within the confines of that role has nothing to do with Maat.
CORA: Is it the same thing about lying about being gay? Is that also a role?
THERRY: Yeah, you take care of the needs of the situation. I mean it'd be kind of stupid for you to start wearing a flag and start flaunting your gayness when the society in which you live in despises that... I mean there's no logic there. It's one thing for you to chose something for yourself, but it's something else to force the rest of the world to accept it.
CORA: And how does playing a role relate to honor and pride in something that you honor?
THERRY: It goes by taking care of the needs of the situation.
CORA: You mean you don't have to flaunt your pride in everybody else's face for whatever you are?
THERRY: That's correct. Many people don't like the idea of flag waving, especially if that flag is the homosexual flag. Many people are perfectly willing...most people are perfectly willing to accept you at face value without ever trying to understand or accept your values. That depends on just how much you try to pin them in the corner. If you keep your values to yourself and have a decorum of or at least on face value, live by a similar code than they do, they're perfectly willing to accept you.
CORA: When you say, "accept you," does that mean have acquaintances and hang out with them?
THERRY: Yeah, you interact on a social or business level. You'll be accepted within limits, but when you start waving your personal flag in their faces, you're out to create an awful lot of enemies. Truth is only valuable in levels and within every given game that you play, it has a respective level of truth and when you go beyond that level you create war. The only place where truth should be absolute is within yourself.
CORA: That's why you've always told me not to be honest with everybody. Which I tend to keep ignoring because I feel guilty when I'm not honest with people and then I screw up whatever game it is. Especially...I do that with lovers more than anything else because I guess with everybody else I'm willing to keep a certain social distance and I feel comfortable with someone else and I think they like me, then I want to share myself with them or have them understand me.
THERRY: You can't. You can't share yourself. Uniqueness forbids that. The best thing any two people can do is to share desires and to go into a mutual gratification of needs. That's the best two people can do. Everything else is uniqueness and it goes within each individual. And they are the only thing anybody can do is to pathetically mirror the others. There is never any true real contact. Remember no one can be totally, totally truthful with anyone but the self.
CORA: Well, I was talking to Wayne and he was talking about this dream he had and uniqueness and being alone...
THERRY: That's Wayne, that's not you.
CORA: Well, that's true.
THERRY: Wayne's on a different level than you and plays many different games than you do. He understands the relative levels of truth.
CORA: I like feeling connected to people and to my surroundings instead of feeling alienated from it.
THERRY: Yeah, but it brings with it a very special set of responsibilities which you don't like because they're limits.
CORA: Well, is it a false illusion for me to feel that I'm connected the way I am or to feel...
THERRY: That's doesn't matter. That's useless information. The only thing that's important there is the fact that everything that one possesses has with it a special set of responsibilities for people who don't like responsibilities because they don't like limits...they've got problems.
CORA: Another thing, since you're on the subject of mutual satisfaction of needs, is that whenever I go to bed with someone, I think I'm in love with them... Why?
THERRY: Where do you think that comes from?
CORA: My miscommunication?
THERRY: Well, that's obvious, but where do you think that came from?
CORA: I don't know, because it never used to be that way.
THERRY: Are you sure?
CORA: Yeah, I used to be able to go to bed with anybody and not feel anything for 'em. Now it seems that as soon as I sleep with them, everything changes for me.
THERRY: I think if you check you'll find that there was a period where you've accepted something from your Dad in terms of a type of separation where you pseudo-stopped your war and since then you're been the way you are now. Because some one will sleep with you, in your mind, they have accepted you.
CORA: Pseudo-stopped my war?
THERRY: 'Cause you're not as much at war with your Dad as you were before.
CORA: Ah. You mean that realization I had of forgiveness?
THERRY: So the light bulbs lights.
CORA: And ever since, I've been like I am now, you mean feeling connected with anyone who is willing to be with me?
THERRY: Many different changes which were relatively new.
CORA: That's true and sex was sure affected. So, but that doesn't seem to be the right attitude.
THERRY: Growth is always the right attitude. Even if it may still be inappropriate at least it's one step towards what you want to be.
CORA: Wayne says that I don't have the proper frame of reference for mutual satisfaction of need.
THERRY: 'Course not. You only have one reference point right at the moment and it's always a question. See what you can guess what it is.
CORA: Question? "Why should I?" No, I didn't think so.
THERRY : "What's in it for me?" And invariably somewhere in that tangled weave are the thoughts of Dad.
CORA: I know that's his value. I know I was thinking the other day, that if I ever got a lot of money that I'd want to give a lot of it to here and then my next thought was fear that then if I gave a lot of it to here and I couldn't take care of myself, then what would I do? - which showed me that I had a total lack of faith in being taken care of by anything else other than me.
THERRY: Why does it have to be that way? Why couldn't that be a little bit of reasoning saying that you have to make sure that you can take care of yourself before you can take care of others?
CORA: Why is... I guess because I've always believed that if you give out a lot of good things that good things will come back to you and if you do give somebody a whole bunch of money that it stands to reason that you should probably get some back in some way and get somebody to take care of you in the future.
THERRY: That's your Dad's value all the way, but it's not real.
CORA: That is my Dad's value? How? That sounds to me to be Karma?
THERRY: That's your Dad's value not Karma. Karma gives you what you need. Your Dad is that if you give something, you must get something in return, it must be an even swap. And more than even swap, you should try to get the better deal out of it. In reality, just because you give something away that doesn't mean that you're going to get anything in return... So, he gave nothing if he did not have to.
CORA: What about, "What goes around comes around.?"
THERRY: That doesn't have to come around in the same life.
CORA: That's true. No wonder I have such poor communication. I think I've linked a lot of things that I've learned with things that were already there and somehow it makes them very distorted. (Laugh)
THERRY: Especially if you add the emotions that you have to go along with them.
CORA: (Laugh) Yes, this is true.
THERRY: So, if you start out with something that's already distorted and then add the distortion that the emotions bring you've got a lot of pain.
CORA: So then what's the proper attitude? You take care of yourself before you take care of other people?
THERRY: What's the law?
CORA: Well, I thought the law was, "What goes around, comes around."
THERRY: Yes, but that could be centuries in coming.
CORA: You can't help other people when you're not on stable ground?
THERRY: How can you help somebody else if you can't even help yourself.
CORA: So, if someone has a big windfall...if I inherited a million dollars and I should make sure I have my future secure before I donate it to anything else?
THERRY: Yes, but even before that, make sure you're capable of handling the burden of that million dollars. If you're not, don't do anything with it, just put it away and let it build itself while you straighten your own problems out.
CORA: So if life's not an even swap and you do put things out and maybe not get it back for a whole life, then I guess the proper attitude is, just like you said taking care of yourself.
THERRY: Yes, it's absolute fact that life is going to give you a whole lot of lemons. The problem comes in your learning what to do with them. Slowly, but surely, learn to make lemonade.
CORA: It's not selfish to think of yourself first?
THERRY: No, isn't that the natural way? -- isn't that what the hierarchy of needs does?
CORA: Yeah. It's pretty funny. I think I'm real selfish, but I don't really know what that means, obviously, because I've been thinking about it in a totally different way.
THERRY: Doesn't that get back to levels and thresholds?
CORA: Thresholds of truth, you mean?
CORA: Yup. I'd have a lot less problems if I communicated properly.
CORA: I was just sitting here, thinking that I've been in conflict all year about Arkashea and about my feminist beliefs and my sexuality and how it all goes together and if they were all values in conflict with each other and I guess that's not true because two of them are not even values at all. (Laugh) And one set we hadn't even started on yet, but I'm sure all the perceptions that I had about that isn't accurate, either... are they?
CORA: Why? Because...
THERRY: You want to be consistent and be wrong all the way across the board, is that it?
THERRY: Why can't you be right sometimes? Don't prejudge Cora. It's one thing to say that you are possibly wrong, but it's something else to start off being against yourself You have to be in your own corner before somebody else can be in your corner.
CORA: So faith must not be what I thought it is either?
THERRY: What do you think it is?
CORA: Well, from the dictionary definition, it was a belief where, you're not sure...a belief where there's no facts to back it up.
THERRY: That's a good start.
CORA: But like I thought that if I gave away most of my money and then got into some tragic state where I couldn't help myself as well that it wasn't faith to not want to give away my money and not want that to happen as well because faith should be that you do it and it would come back to me, but that's not true.
THERRY: Seems to me, that's a gross mislabeling.
CORA: Which part is mislabeled?
THERRY: All of it. To have faith that just because you gave away your money that's sufficient to take care of you, to me that's a little bit of ... I don't know, maybe Walt Disney would like it.
CORA: (Laugh) So then, what's the definition of faith?
THERRY: To have a very strong internal feeling that is supported by the emotions concerning an aspect of or a set of facts where there is no logical or scientific proof of it. An example is reincarnation. There is no logical or scientific proof of its existence, yet it's the core or one of the core beliefs of Arkashea.
CORA: But wouldn't law say that there is a logical...
THERRY: No. That set of law, itself, has no scientific basis. As a matter of fact, I don't know of any religious sect that has a scientific base.
CORA: Well, Arkashea...
THERRY: That's the nature of religion.
CORA: But Arkashea is not a religious sect, is it? I thought it wasn't?
THERRY: Okay, that's also one of the bases of spirituality as well. Just because you and I can observe those laws in effect, there's no scientific proof that there are laws and there's no scientific proof that they are a part of a system of law we call Dialusion.
CORA: That's true.
THERRY: Hence, faith. when you meet somebody and you instinctively, inwardly know that that's a good person, that's what faith is... the belief in something that is unsupportable by the laws as you know them to be.
CORA: And the last part of my initial statement two tapes ago as far as values is concerned was Arkashea and I suppose when you talk about a system of values, if I have or if I'm aligned to Arkashea, then I guess it's those values that are my prime steering currents, is that right?
THERRY: It's not totally accurate, but yes. As there are levels of truth , so there are levels to Arkashea. Simply because one person claims the title "Arkashean," that doesn't mean he's a total Arkashean, it simply means that the individual, by the fact that he calls himself Arkashean has admitted to himself that he has assimilated a certain percentage of the values that Arkashea believes in. Again, it's levels of truth.
CORA: So that someone who lives in the outside world does not have to drive themselves crazy about not being a monk in order to be Arkashean?
THERRY: That is correct.
CORA: So far someone that was living in the outside world, for me, for instance, with my particular set of lifestyles and problems and situations, as far as Arkashea goes, what are the axioms that would apply?
THERRY: Well, that would depend on the individual, wouldn't it?
CORA: Yeah, which is why I specified it to me.
THERRY: In other words, you're asking me to tell you what you believe in? Isn't that a little bit off the wall?
CORA: (Laugh) No, I'm asking you to tell me the kinds of axioms -- I guess this is a better way of putting it -- the kinds of axioms that are Arkashean that are...that would be appropriate for the outside world lifestyle, I guess.
THERRY: It depends upon the individual...if you have three people in the room, you could have six different systems that could, or would be believed.
CORA: Okay. Well then, what are some of the axioms of Arkashea?
THERRY: Well, you already know the axioms of Arkashea. You have to bear into account that according to the level of truth, that level of truth will automatically change the laws so that they can be live by. Remember the Holy One commands, the lesser Gods change those rules so that they can live by them. That's relative to the level of truth.
CORA: Well, how do you fit that together with honor?
THERRY: The level of truth has its own set of honors. Everything is relative, even language.
CORA: Do you remember that you once said that the life you, Tim and Wayne lived... that I was mistaking its austerity for being monks, when it wasn't that you were monks - although you are -- but it was because you are Arkashean... and Arkasheans seek to stay away from the toys of the out-side world...
THERRY: Yes, we have a different level of truth.
CORA: Than someone in the outside world?
THERRY: Than you do, since you're the one with the question. Let's say we have changed the rules far less than you have.
CORA: What is that? The question that comes to mind is the more you change the rules or the level of truth, to that degree are you a bad or unacceptable person.
THERRY: No, that doesn't even apply. That too comes out of Walt Disney.
CORA: (Laugh) Then what's accurate?
THERRY: Well, that thinking process is not even in the ballpark. The level of truth depends on the individual's lifestyle and the individual's capacity for tenacity or austerity. Obviously, if someone is living in the outside world and their job is to run a bar, or a gay bar in the outside world, well obviously, his level of truth is going to be different than somebody who has cloistered himself in the cloister and their only activity is to kneel down and pray and think about God, you know. To put the two in the same category is straight out of Walt Disney.
CORA: Well, I guess that's what I've been doing, because every time, I dance I feel incredibly guilty.
THERRY: That's stupid. Dancing is a beautiful art form and it's a beautiful way of expressing oneself. Not to mention that it's very healthy for the body.
CORA: Well, I guess it was a miscommunication but I guess I thought it was against Arkashea.
THERRY: Well, believe it or not, there are some religious groups that are totally against dancing, they're against music, against laughing.
THERRY: Please don't number us among those. (Laugh)
CORA: Well, I guess that everything I do that's here that I can do out there I feel okay with and things that you guys don't do that I do out there I feel guilty about... is that stupid?
THERRY: Why should you feel guilty because you're not on the same level of truth? That too comes out of Walt Disney. You're not us. You're you. Your lifestyle is different than our lifestyle. That doesn't make me better than you. It sure as hell doesn't make me less truthful than you. We haven't suddenly become Gods just because we're on a different level than you are. I mean if you cut us and compare the bloods, they're both gonna be red, they're both gonna be cut and both will heal eventually and both will feel the pain. So there isn't a hell of a lot of difference. The only basic difference between your level and my level is time. Who knows, maybe with time, I'll come up to your level or you'll come down to mine or whatever way you want to call it.
CORA: Well, I know that Arkashean precepts that you have for the public. Is that still a book for the public by the way? The one you gave me?
THERRY: Which one?
CORA: The one that a friend drew the front cover for?
THERRY: Oh, yeah, yeah.
CORA: 'Cause that still is what I'm using when I do tell anyone that -- which there's only been Tierny and Webby, but...
THERRY: Yes, that's for the public...Volume I, the Discovery is also for the public, when it's finished finally, but that has considerably more in it.
CORA: I also thought that other volumes were there as well. Wasn't it a series?
THERRY: Yes, there's at least five books in the series. They're all for the public but they're not all publishable right at the moment. We have to change some of the laws and some of the rules so that the people would have a chance of following them since they deal with the lesser Gods. (Laugh)
CORA: So that stuff is Arkashean precepts?
THERRY: Yes, sorta watered down some.
CORA: And all those precepts are meant to make -- if you would chose to follow them - honorable people?
THERRY: Yes. They're designed to be utilized as a prime value system.
CORA: It doesn't say anything in there about not dancing?
THERRY: That's right -- it doesn't say anything about not being gay either. I think the closest it comes is, if you're going to screw, don't do it on the public street. (Laugh)
CORA: (Laugh) So then how do you prioritize? - well, maybe there is nothing to prioritize?
THERRY: There is. You must learn to separate your needs from your wants, your compulsions from your desires.
CORA: If people followed those Arkashean beliefs that are in the books for prime values, would they start opening up psychic doors or have the opportunity to do that if they wanted to?
THERRY: With time... depending on Karma.
CORA: 'Cause I was discussing something with Siela a while ago, a new friend, the one that's married and getting the divorce, all that stuff, but we were discussing power and I was saying that I would rather seek wisdom, and power naturally comes when you learn the stuff in there, but if you seek power, then wisdom doesn't necessarily come with it.
THERRY: The chances are greater that if you seek power, you'll never possess wisdom 'cause power corrupts, wisdom enlightens.
CORA: So the way one finds out more about Arkashean values is to read the books?
THERRY: Well, that's one way.
CORA: And, I mean, I've got some that I know of right off the bat, like not committing adultery...
THERRY: Everything in that book you've been taught or attempted to be taught before. There's nothing new in there for you.
CORA: Well, I've only figured out about all the values in that pamphlet that I've read over a couple of times this year about not taking advantage of orphans and widows and some of that I don't understand...not that aspect...you had some stuff in there about keeping clean from unclean, sacred...
THERRY: Learning the difference between what is Holy and what is profane.
CORA: I guess an axiom is keeping holy things holy.
CORA: And not committing adultery, and not stealing other people's mates and not causing harm to other people and being your brother's keeper.
THERRY: But there you have to add a codicil.
CORA: ...not his jailer?
CORA: And these things are considered axioms?
CORA: And helping the poor and strangers?
THERRY: One of the biggest ones which people fail is never try to teach anybody anything. Instead, always give them the opportunity to learn. It doesn't matter how hard you try to pound your ideas into their head. It doesn't work. They're going to have to put them there themselves. So get off your soapbox. All you do is aggravate or create pompous.
CORA: Am I right that the things we talked about yesterday about honor and sacred and profane and that statement leads me to believe that I shouldn't talk to other people about Arkashea at all?
THERRY: You're not supposed to be a walking emissary.
CORA: (Laugh) Okay.
THERRY: Arkashea has never given you license to go and get on a soapbox.
CORA: No, that's true.
THERRY: But if you're in a casual conversation it's not the time to preach, it is only time to simply respond to questions, then that's a different story relative to your level of truth.
CORA:: So if somebody asks you what I believe, that's usually how this thing...
THERRY: There's nothing wrong with that. You're not telling them anything about Arkashea, you're telling them about you. The fact that there is a parallel, respective to the level of truth, is besides the point. BUT you should never use the word "they" because they didn't ask you what WE believed, they asked you what YOU believed. So the word should be "I believe" not "they."
CORA: And we went through what I can tell them if they ask me what religion I am and that's usually enough to satisfy their curiosity and change the conversation?
THERRY: Yeah, if they insist upon [it], and you get the idea that they're really not what they seem to be...they're really trying to gain ammunition rather than learning, simply ask them, "What're you doing, writing a book? Leave this chapter out of it!"
CORA: (Laugh) A lot of times they're not that direct to ask me anything about you guys per se, but they do it in a round about [way]... it's kind'a hard to describe... it's kind'a like what Jan used to do when she wanted information. She never directly asked me about it, but it was all stuff about spirituality, at the same time, it was stuff I believed. And so, is it profane to talk about stuff I believe?
THERRY: You have to decide that for yourself. It depends on the level of truth who's doing the asking.
CORA: I mean, I never directly told her any laws and I never really mentioned you guys. As a matter of fact, the only time I did was to tell her that I thought she was trying to use me...you know, that stuff. You basically told me I should tell her about her not respecting Arkashea and trying to get information out of it. I guess I have a hard time, maybe it's miscommunication, separating what I believe from what Arkashea believes because some of what Arkashea believes is what I believe.
THERRY: Perhaps that's part of your problem... Perhaps you're not sure who you are. Perhaps you need to make that separation. Perhaps you're using that as a game so that you won't have to take responsibility. If expressions could kill! (Laugh) Too bad this is not being filmed because the expression on your face was...! (Laugh) That expression said "Ouch!" (Laugh)
CORA: (Laugh) If I believe something then it's "I" and if it's the same thing that Arkashea believes?
THERRY: That's tough! That's Arkashea's problem. Obviously, what you believe and what Arkashea believes is going to be respective to its level of truth anyway. You may have changed our ways a little bit to fit your level of truth. It doesn't change the fact that the basic pattern overlaps. And it doesn't change the fact that it's your belief, not Arkashea's belief.
CORA: Does that make it... talking about it, not making it not sacred because it's my beliefs and not Arkashea's beliefs?
THERRY: No. It's got nothing to [do with it]. It doesn't even touch Arkashea. If you believe in sucking only purple lollipops, does that harm me because I like purple lollipops too?
CORA: If I tell somebody I believe in Universal law?
THERRY: You're not talking about Universal law, you're telling them about you. The fact that Arkashea also believes in Universal law, big deal.
CORA: Is it profaning Universal law to talk about it with someone who doesn't believe in it or who may debate it or who may certainly not follow it even if I said, you told me not to state this specific law, so if somebody says, give me an example, and I say, well, if there's five people in a room and they all see the same thing, they've all going to have a different...they're all going to see something different if they see the same act happening, in other words, and see according to your perceptions. That's an example that I commonly use.
THERRY: Does that make it any less true?
CORA: No, it is true!
THERRY: Does it make it any less holy?
THERRY: If that's your belief, it's your belief because somebody else is going to belittle something, you're not going to believe in it any less in it, are you?
CORA: No, you're not. So what's an example of making something...
THERRY: Well, there are certain things that I hold sacred and there's no way that I'm going to talk to you about it. I'm not even going to give you the chance to honor it or not to honor it. I just ain't going to talk about it, period. Whatever I chose to talk about, it's going to be something that may or may not aid you in your value systems. But things that are really sacred to me, forget it, I don't give a damn if you drown, I ain't going to turn around and talk to you about it -- You can drown in your self-pity until the cows come home and you still ain't going to hear the things that are sacred to me. It's all respective to each individual's level of truth, isn't it? What is sacred to me may not be sacred for you. Does that answer your question?
CORA: 'Cause now I'm thinking that if Arkashea is sacred to me, maybe I shouldn't talk about it at all. IF they ask me what I believe or what my religion is or what my spirituality is, maybe I shouldn't tell them anything.
THERRY: Well, there is more than one way... just answer specific questions, but don't use the question as an excuse to get on a soapbox... Another was is when they come back with the age-old thing..."Well, what" What've you got to hide? What's wrong with it? Why do you want to hide it so much?"
CORA: If I wanted to start a war, I could say I don't cast pearls before swine, but I don't think that's appropriate.
THERRY: You're learning.
CORA: But I didn't ever think... I mean, I have hidden it for a long time, for years...
THERRY: To do the right thing for the wrong reasons will give you the same effect as to do the wrong thing for the right reasons, Cora.
CORA: That's true.
THERRY: There is a difference between hiding something and holding it sacred.
CORA: Well, I hid it because I didn't know how to talk it and I didn't know how people would take it and then I started taking about it when I stayed here last summer and it was news to everybody that you guys existed out here and I'd been friends with you for eight years, even though they'd known me for the same eight years...six years, whatever. And I'm not sure now with the definitions that I got yesterday if...
THERRY: The definitions are intact, just the limits are different with each respective level of truth.
CORA: I guess that's the difference. I'm not sure what you shouldn't talk about. I mean, well, I shouldn't talk about my chain because it's sacred and it wouldn't be understood.
THERRY: There is another mechanism that is similar to trade-offs that will take care of differences or relative differences between levels of truth. It's called "having an understanding heart." If you know something, you possess information that will help an individual and yet keep you off the preaching block, you should state what it is. If you know something that would harm somebody, keep your mouth shut. It doesn't matter what it is...you just keep your mouth shut. If you know of an individual who is in dire need of a friend or who's in dire need of information...keep your mouth shut, but stay open in case they should ask you questions and then guard your words.
CORA: If people are in dire need of a friend or information, keep your mouth shut?
CORA: You mean, if they haven't asked, but you know they are in need?
THERRY: Yes. You got it. Don't steal their pain. Evil will give you the fortitude to get on your soapbox and preach like crazy. Because you know of a better way, but you sure as hell ain't helping them any, you're just helping yourself. The last thing they need is to be forced to listen to crap from you that they didn't ask for. They've got enough of their own pain, they don't need yours.
CORA: That's true. If someone...if you're having an interactive conversation with someone, and they say, I believe this and this and this, and they pause kind of, they kind of pause that you're supposed to say something and I guess you could... there's a number of things you could say. You could say, "Oh, that's nice!" or you could say, "That must be rough!" or you could say, "I believe such and such and so..."?
THERRY: Or you could also say, "I know many people who believe that."
CORA: Yeah, that's another way. Is that pause another way of asking a question or should it not be considered as such?
THERRY: It could be intended as one. And it could also be the individual's checking to see if you're rejecting them or not.
CORA: How do you tell if one is rejecting you?
THERRY: Do you really need to have somebody tell you if somebody's rejecting you?
CORA: No, I thought, I thought you said you could see if somebody's rejecting them or not.
THERRY: Yeah. It could be that when somebody pauses that they're really checking to see if you're gonna reject them. It doesn't necessarily mean they're asking you a question.
CORA: Well, if you just say, "Ah ha" or one of the other phrases?
THERRY: Well, the "Ah-ha" in that particular situation would be...(laugh)
CORA: Not something good to do...
THERRY: No! (Laugh) Did you ever play the game of, somebody's talking and you're so busy listening to what you're going to say next that you haven't heard a single word of what they've been saying? That's what that "ah-ha" is. (Laugh)
CORA: 'Cause I remember another time when I was asking about Terina and you had said that when you're interacting...I used an example of "it's a nice day outside" or something like that and you said that I could either say "Yes, it is" or I could say more about how I felt about it, even though she didn't directly ask how do you feel and you said that it was better in an interaction situation to give more information as long as you're not preaching.
THERRY: It's one thing to talk about the weather, it's something else to get into personalities.
CORA: Well, I also used the example of suicide and what we both believed and you'd said more information is appropriate. But I guess... I understood intellectually the definitions, but to apply it to things.
THERRY: See you can't make blanket statements. Everything is relative to the situation at hand and obviously the situation's hand was created by the level of truth of the people at hand. So it is still a fabric. There is no clear-cut recommendations for behavior under all conditions.
CORA: I guess the thing is that I'm always worried that I said too much and I hate having to think that...
CORA: And the only thing to do is not to ever say anything.
THERRY: That's not true. There is another way.
CORA: Which is what?
THERRY: Put your brain in motion before you put your mouth in gear and resolve never to be sorry for anything that you've already said. If you decide you want to say something, then say it. If you decide, you don't want to say it, or shouldn't say it, then don't say it and then there's no recriminations.
CORA: And a lot of times I'm not sure, especially when it gets into spirituality.
THERRY: That goes back to value systems again. If something is sacred to you, if your value system is correct, you don't have any worry because there's no way you're going to talk about it.
CORA: Well, then if Arkashea's sacred to me, I shouldn't talk about it.
THERRY: Arkashea should never be sacred to you. One must never, never, never hold a teacher sacred... only the wisdom should be sacred. Never deify a Teacher, it doesn't matter how great he is. Never, never deify a teacher. But the wisdom that is brought forth, that you can hold sacred.
CORA: Now a lot of things that I believe are a part of wisdom. I mean the laws, Universal law is part of wisdom.
CORA: So, if you hold Universal laws sacred, then you don't talk about it, right?
THERRY: It depends on the level of truth. You're free to talk about it, among your own kind.
CORA: Well, my confusion comes with outsiders, so I'll stick to the reference point right now of outsiders.
THERRY: So then it gets back to the level of truth. Everything has levels to it, Cora. What is appropriate to one level is inappropriate on another.
CORA: So how do I decipher which...what is okay to say and what is not when it gets to things regarding...
THERRY: Can you see yourself talking to Terna about Powers of Creation ... whereby you can go into her mind and rewire her?
CORA: She'd think it was ridiculous. It was hard enough to tell her about here!
THERRY: So therefore, you automatically know the levels of truth and therefore you automatically know what is appropriate and what isn't in terms of information.
CORA: If someone... someone once asked me what I believed God to be and I told them I thought it was the First Thought and then they made fun of me... and I didn't expect them to make fun of me and they had asked the question. Should I not have answered it truthfully if I had held it sacred? Or was it?
THERRY: Not at all. You simply learned that that individual is not always what it seems.
CORA: Well was it profaning God to talk about it?
THERRY: No, it was simply a case of learning that not all people are truthful and not all people are as good as some other people. Some people are downright idiots and they behave that way, but it's not for you to judge or prejudge what they should be given or what they shouldn't be given.
CORA: Well, right, that's why I'm having this confusion.
THERRY: So, for this particular person, you already should know, there's certain things that you just do not talk to this person about. When they come to you and ask you anything that has to do with spirituality, your best reply is, "I will not talk to you about spirituality You laughed at me once, you sure are not going to laugh at me twice. You wanna know something about people's beliefs, you go out and find out for yourself." 'Course it's a good way of starting a war, but it's also a good way of telling her off.
CORA: 'Cause I've had a lot of conversations with Jada and we've talked about a lot about magic and spirituality and witchcraft and very little about Arkashea, but I didn't feel like I was profaning stuff, but I did tell her stuff about what I learned here about why I don't do it and it was stuff I believed.
THERRY: That's fine. You were simply telling her your beliefs, not Arkashea's beliefs.
CORA: But if I had held these beliefs sacred, would I have not talked about them either?
THERRY: That's not true. It all depends on one's level of truth. If you're talking to your own level, even though you hold it sacred, you're still free to speak about it. Because you automatically...the faith value will automatically tell you that it's not going to be defamed.
CORA: So there's a difference between your own level and your own kind?
CORA: She's not my own kind, but I know she believes a lot in all this stuff. She never laughed...
THERRY: So, she may have a relative level.
CORA: Right. She never laughed at it or anything. She was just curious, so it alright to talk to [her about it].
THERRY: Or she was seeking.
CORA: Yeah. That may be too. She's seeked into a lot of strange things this life. Not that this is strange, but I mean, she's just gone through a lot. And yet, I know with Jo, I don't talk about spirituality at all, because I don't think she'd understand. Is that the kind of difference you're talking about with sacred and profane?
CORA: And yet some people, according to the dictionary definition, "profane" meaning "earthly", intellectualize everything and don't hold anything sacred, but they ask a lot of questions and then pick apart and analyze everything.
THERRY: Everybody has their own path to sacredness or to spirituality. It's maybe possible that these people are following the mental path.
CORA: So they're not necessarily not holding it sacred?
THERRY: Correct. The game... the rules of the games of the path that they have chosen are different, that's all. If an individual follows the path of science, they will obviously tear everything apart to try to analyze it. That doesn't necessarily in itself means that it's being profaned. It could be their method of understanding and their method of holding something sacred.
CORA: So when I talk to people about spirituality that I know believe in magic and believe in reincarnation and believe in other things, I can tell them that I believe and if I don't think that they're not going to make fun of it, then that's not profaning it to tell them my beliefs.
THERRY: Providing you're not on the soapbox.
CORA: Right. Providing... I'm assuming I'm not preaching. We're just having interactions and discussions.
THERRY: Also providing that you're not defending from somebody that is on a soapbox.
CORA: Now what does that mean?
THERRY: Somebody else could be preaching and you're saying what you're saying to defend yourself from their words.
CORA: Yeah, I've done that once before a long time ago. Jay's boyfriend. So what're you supposed to do in that situation?
THERRY: Keep silent and let them blow their own horn and then just walk away.
CORA: 'Course I wasn't really trying to change his mind, I was trying to change Jay's because he seemed to want to convert her to what he was doing and so he would read and say all this stuff and I would basically debate him. It worked. I'm not [sure] it was the right thing to do at the time. It thought it was. I basically blew every theory he had right out of the water is basically what I did based on what you had taught me, which at the time, I hadn't known you all that long...about a year, maybe less.
THERRY: That goes to show how well the things we have work.
CORA: You mean the fact that Jay didn't go with him, but came to meet you?
THERRY: Well, the fact that had there been any truth to his precepts, you wouldn't have been able to blow him out of the water.
CORA: So holding something sacred or profaning it, maybe that's the better tack to approach it, is when somebody's not going to understand what you're saying and they're just going to just ridicule it?
THERRY: You can't put that limit to it, but yes.
CORA: ... And if people start asking about Arkashea, about what you do here, is it still appropriate to... usually, what I do, I figured that the pamphlet you gave was for the public, so you didn't mind if the public knew about your hospice work and your old age home and I usually say something general about your plan to have businesses and charities and to support the charities through your businesses and your charities are thus and such and such...and that's okay and appropriate?
CORA: I guess if people are just doing stuff for curiosity the conversation can drift elsewhere?
CORA: And I guess if they're really interested, they'll bring the conversation back?
CORA: Carla brings it back a lot but she brings it back a lot to me. Although the last time I saw her we started talking a little bit about you, but not very much, which is another thing...I don't know how to describe you to other people at all and I always say that you're just a friend of mine, who's very wise. Is that appropriate?
THERRY: That's fine. I'm not a God, you know. Not even a lesser God.
CORA: With all that stuff that you were telling Kina and what you could do, I think I already told you this, but you know, she told me when I asked her what she thought about it, you know, that you were either insane or you were what you said you were. (Laugh) But I don't ever describe you even as a Mirror because I don't feel like I know how to describe it and I don't feel like...
THERRY: For one thing, you can't understand me. From your own experiences, I've shown you so many different abilities and possibilities that you don't really know where the limits of my abilities are.
CORA: That part's true.
THERRY: And I always make sure that there is sufficient doubt there so you'll never know who or what I am. I may be the biggest joker this world has ever had. I may have the best charlatan game in the world. You'll never know. It's unimportant, because that makes you consistently forced to do your own thinking.
CORA: To such an extent that I'll throw away what you say half the time! (Laugh)
THERRY: (Laugh) Maybe I'm doing that too good! (Laugh) Hell, you ain't supposed to be able to fire the teacher anyway. You're supposed to absorb the wisdom, test it out through reality and if it fits, absorb it as yours and then it becomes yours. Then and only then should you hold it sacred.
CORA: There is one thing that I still can't accept. Or I've got an open mind to it, but I'm not sure I believe it and that's, I guess the thing about everything being a fight between good and evil on this level.
THERRY: I can accept that.