Arkashean Q&A Session -- 008
BLAKE: Therry, can you sing the song of death for us again?
THERRY: Okay, if you wish, "Before Christianity's garden of Eden came into being, long before Christianity itself came into being, there was a garden, but it was a different garden. For the lack of a better term, it was an Arkashean garden. The residents of that garden were not limited to just humans and plants. They were in fact the entire continuum of the life force, and the mind force. And Death was the keeper. The garden, of course, existed within Castle-Keep, and therefore, a part of the garden existed in all 144 various dimensions, and all veins of creation, and in all, death was the keeper. And, in those days of old, it was said that death would walk his garden, and as he walked, he would prune, but he would not prune indiscriminately, for Death, too must follow Recursive Dialusion. It was said that Death would watch, stand by, and when he found any specific life-form who became Holy, then he would guard that life-form. Again, for the purpose of this tale, let's understand the term Holy as we're using it. One must bear in mind that it is not necessary to be perfect to be holy; you need only be a little less barbaric than everyone else around you. Therefore, if you became a little bit less barbaric, you became holy in the eyes of Death. Anyway, getting back to the tale, the tale, incidentally is called The Song of Death; anyway, let me continue singing. As Death walked the garden, he would prune, and as he found the individual life forms to be more holy, he would come to protect them. And it was resolved that more of this kind would be propagated, and thus their numbers increased, and when there came a time when there was enough of this new kind, Death would prune and the old would die, and only the new kind would survive. Now, Death would not prune all of the old kind, he would always leave one or two in order to have the original stock, even though it meant that that one or two could often corrupt some of the new stock, it was necessary to keep some of them. But more than not, the old would die. And when we say the old now, it is not strictly chronological age; it was the old, barbaric type, the unholy man, or the unholy life. As opposed to the new, holy one. And, over time, each life form began to evolve, through reincarnation. And as more of this continued, a bond came into being between the various residents of the garden, and then with time, peace came into being; a measure of tranquility came into being. Honor came into being, and now, we're working on love. It is said that soon, Death will walk again, and there'll be another major pruning. Thus is the song of Death." Okay?
LAUREN: When you say, He'll walk again, major pruning, you mean a war, something that will wipe out most of the civilization?
THERRY: Well, I don't know about most, but it will certainly thin the garden quite a bit.
LAUREN: And, by getting rid of the old ones, and allowing the new ones, the young ones to come in, that--
THERRY: Now, don't make a mistake in using your language by using the word `young' to equate the opposite of the word old, because, in language, you are now speaking of chronological age, and this is not where it applies. When you're using `the old ones'--
LAUREN: Oh, you mean older ideas, more barbaric?
THERRY: Right, the more barbaric of the specie.
LAUREN: And if the old ones are removed, will then they come back again with the opportunity to do the same, be in the same exact, older state again--?
THERRY: According to reincarnation, they learn on other levels, and then they come back, and if they are threatening to bring the old ways back again, then they are killed again.
LAUREN: It sounds like, I mean, it's the individual's own free-will to put themselves in that position, it just seems that this sounds so different in that death picks and chooses, that type of thing?
THERRY: Yea, but it's done by law. Death is only the keeper. He's not the deciding factor. So, you can't make the statement, `death picks and chooses', cause that's not true. Death is simply the instrument of law.
LAUREN: I thought that, for instance, there's Karma for a country, there's Karma for a town, a group, a world, etc. and that if the Karma for the planet is for it to get itself blown up, nobody's going to be spared. Isn't that true?
THERRY: That would be find and dandy if you thought this was the only planet that was a corner of the garden.
LAUREN: I just thought that some people had to survive in order to keep ideas going; I mean, if everybody's gone, there's none to try and start it up again on this planet, they go to another one where everything's already going?
THERRY: Well, let's look at it from a different point of view, just for the fun of it. Let's play a questioning what-if. Would you agree that it is apparent on this planet that there is more than one kind of dog? There's more than one kind of plant? What if there was more than one kind of man? And, what if the garden was divided so that each had his own little corner of the garden, such that man as we know the species to be, was on the planet Earth, but man, another species, would be on a different planet, and so on. That makes it a different point of view now, right?
LAUREN: Well, I'm not sure. To be reincarnated onto a different planet, as a different type of man, a different species,--
THERRY: Well, the point is your original point of view puts such a great importance, universally, upon man who resides upon THIS planet, when, in fact, he's relatively very unimportant.
LAUREN: You mean on this planet.
THERRY: The whole planet is very unimportant, relatively. It is possible for this planet, and the species of man that exists upon it, could be totally obliterated, and have no effect whatsoever on the Universal forces. It is man's own arrogance who places such importance upon himself. He finds himself to be SO arrogant, that he really believes he is so important that the Universe wouldn't allow him to kill himself off. And hence the history of this species man is one of blood. But the law tells us that Death is the keeper, and when it comes time, he will get rid of the old, and if this species of man happens to be among those old, then he will be obliterated. Man will either live together, or he will die together.
LAUREN: If this species of man is obliterated, yet all the entities will go to other planets and work on themselves, on different planets, in different incarnations?
THERRY: Yes... They will have to go to oblivion.
LAUREN: Oh, that's what you mean by the `old ones', because not necessarily every individual on this planet--
THERRY: Correct. But if, per se, the entire planet is obliterated, then the entire planet goes to oblivion. Man, this species, won't be in existence anymore.
LAUREN: But the different entities, they don't--?
THERRY: The different sparks of life, the life essence will go to oblivion, and it will follow the law of oblivionites.
LAUREN: So all of us will go to oblivion if this planet gets blown up?
THERRY: Yea and no.. For oblivion to come, this species would have to destroy itself. Again, maybe not. When the pruning comes, those who are ready will be of the new kind.
LAUREN: Will the new go to another planet and be a different type of species?
THERRY: Whatever. See, the form doesn't matter. You're thinking in terms that the Ka, or the shape and form of the Ka is important, and it's not.
LAUREN: Well, I thought that when we first came down, we chose our life-forms?
THERRY: Based upon the needs of this specific species, yes.
LAUREN: I thought we would fall under the family of man, wouldn't we?
THERRY: Yea, but that's not the whole of it, cause the family of man has many, many, many forms. I mean it's spread throughout the garden.
LAUREN: But you wouldn't go to a planet and become a horse? 'Cause that's not under the family of man, I thought. I thought under that whole thing on genetics--
THERRY: See, look, you're blinding yourself. Hear my words, okay? The form and shape of the Ka is unimportant. Whatever the dominant species of a planet is, that will be it. Now if you want to limit yourself to humanoids, well, hey, this is not the only planet that has humanoids. Remember that what makes Man is not on the physical, it's on the mental and it's on the psychic realms of creation.
LAUREN: I thought that was what we were limited to, some form of humanoid?
THERRY: No, we're not limited to that, 'cause it's life that we're talking about, not forms of life. But if you want to limit the song to strictly humanoids, the same thing applies. Because, remember, if this planet is obliterated, there'll be a lot more than just humanoid man that'll be obliterated. There's lots of other life forms in this planet.
LAUREN: Many of the other life-forms will go?
THERRY: Not many, all.
LAUREN: It's possible that man gets wiped out, but other life-forms still survive?
THERRY: Not if the planet is obliterated. You gotta put your thinking back into vogue there.
LAUREN: In fact, isn't it true that man has destroyed himself on other planets in the past?
THERRY: Yes.
LAUREN: Isn't true that in fact, individuals came to this planet?
THERRY: Man was seeded on this planet--
LAUREN: To get away from a planet that was going to be destroyed. Is that true?
THERRY: Yea, man is puddle-jumping through space.
LAUREN: Puddle-jumping? (laughter) I guess I was limiting my thinking to just the recorded history of this planet, and what has happened over and over again on just this planet.
THERRY: Okay, we can limit ourselves to that.
LAUREN: No, I don't mean we have to; just that that was what I was doing.
THERRY: Because, if you think of the song of Death, it is not the history of this planet, it is the history of life itself. Remember, within the song of Death, the garden extends through all dimensions, in all veins of creation.
LAUREN: That's a hard concept to absorb.
THERRY: Yea. Of course, the difficulty arises because of the arrogance of man thinking himself to be the one.
LAUREN: I don't mean to be arrogant, I just don't--
THERRY: Well, I'm not saying or implying that you're arrogant, even though your species is. More then anything else, you're ignorant, not arrogant. And, obviously the quickest way to dispel that ignorance is through education, and that's what's happening now. As you increase your level of wisdom, you also increase your level of knowledge, and that ignorance is dissipating. And then, it's simply a matter of allowing sufficient time so that your emotions can catch up to your knowledge.
LAUREN: Why do my emotions have to catch up to my knowledge?
THERRY: So that you can stop this stupid romanticizing.
LAUREN: I don't get it. I thought that when my emotions take hold of my knowledge, I will romanticize, isn't that true?
THERRY: That's one of the outcomes.
LAUREN: So, what do you mean when your emotions catch up to your knowledge?
THERRY: When your emotions catch up to your knowledge, both your emotions and your knowledge will be on the same level; they'll both be in their proper balance.
LAUREN: Oh, I see what you mean; For instance, I might have knowledge about a certain subject, but emotionally, I'm so far behind that knowledge, because I'm still taking that subject and putting it in some kind of romanticized concept... Is that it?
THERRY: Yea, and all of your knowledge simply serves as tools to build further illusions so that your emotions can play. Consequently, as you romanticize, you create all kinds of distortions, and then you sit and wonder why you can't understand things.
LAUREN: Well, as I said, that Song of Death is very hard for me to understand. I can't place it anywhere; I don't know how to apply it in anything I do. You tell me something like that, and what do I do with it?
THERRY: Put it as one more thread within the weave of the whole of creation.
LAUREN: I can only think as some abstract image of--
THERRY: It's a beginning. Build yourself a gigantic spiderweb, and the Song of Death is simply one of the many threads. Every law we taught you, each unto itself, is one more thread. That's why, in the old days, the spider was revered., because the spider was the mirror of the fabric, and the building of the fabric, so many different threads coming together, ruled by its creator, the spider. So, in the very old days, the spider was considered one of the nature gods. It's the one of the only things found in Nature that would indeed sacrifice itself to bring forth the new generation; and thus Death pruned it, and from its own carcass came the new.
LAUREN: The spider kills itself? Or the mother eats the father?
THERRY: No, that's the black widow.
LAUREN: Oh, it's only that one.
THERRY: Yea, see a spider carries its young alive inside of it.
LAUREN: What about those egg sacks we see?
THERRY: Well, that's just some of it. A lot of those egg sacks are not really egg sacks; it depends on the species.
LAUREN: Do many spiders carry their young inside of them?
THERRY: Yes, and they only live for one cycle, and as their eggs develop, the young survive by eating the mother, and thus she sacrifices herself, she being the old--
LAUREN: For the new generation to come along.
THERRY: Yea.
LAUREN: The spider web seems to be perfect as an example of the web of Maya; all the different dimensions within the earth experience.
THERRY: Yes.
LAUREN: Speaking of dimensions, I was talking with Wayne the other day, and I asked what the difference between a dimension and a level is, and I said, I've probably never been to another dimension, so I don't know what it is, but I know when Therry talks of different levels, I'm beginning to understand that. And Wayne didn't really know what the answer was. He said he did, but then he said, you better ask Therry because he will give you a better definition.
THERRY: This dimension is carbon-based; another dimension might be silicone-based, or copper-based, or gold-based. A dimension is an area of the garden who has the same chemical base. Everything that exists within this dimension is based upon carbon.
LAUREN: You mean--Wait a minute--
THERRY: Carbon is the building block.
LAUREN: Any part of this dimension would be the same chemical base?
THERRY: Yes. It's carbon-based.
LAUREN: And that could be anywhere in the Universe.
THERRY: Right; this Universe, because it's the Universe of this dimension. It's carbon-based. Even though some of the life-forms in other planets may not necessarily be carbon-based, 'cause they're visitors, but this dimension is carbon-based.
BLAKE: How far does a dimension extend? Where are your limits of your dimension, as defined?
THERRY: Well, this particular, the residents of this particular area call the limits of their dimension the Universe. The physical Universe.
BLAKE: But I thought you said that in this physical Universe there may be other life-forms based on other elements in this physical carbon Universe. How is that possible?
THERRY: Well, that said in order to have you differentiate the difference between the Universe and its life-forms.
BLAKE: Okay. So the life-forms can be base on any element?
THERRY: Well, not really; it's limited.
BLAKE: They don't have to based on the matrix element of that dimension?
THERRY: No, because they are visitors. But if they are not seeded to this dimension, then they are carbon-based.
BLAKE: Oh, okay, I see. Then they are not what you call native to this world, Even though this is their home
THERRY: Right; if they're native to this dimension, they're carbon-based. But who knows how long ago they may have invaded, and colonized this dimension?
BLAKE: Yea, they could be here longer than we have as a silicone-based creature?
THERRY: That's correct. And we're not silicone; we're carbon.
BLAKE: I know.
LAUREN: You lost me on that one.
THERRY: Well, do you know what it means by being native to an area?
LAUREN: Having been developed over time?
THERRY: Having been created in that area.
BLAKE: You were born there.
THERRY: For instance, if I create something in my right hand, and if I create something in my left hand, whatever was created in the right hand is native to the right hand. Whatever was created in the left hand is native to the left hand. Now, if, through time, a life form from my right hand flew to my left hand, and colonized it, and vice versa, then each hand would have life-forms that are not native to it; even though ions of time may have passed, and their colony may have taken root there, they're still not native, even though through time many new generations of a colonized people, a seeded people, would have grown to tremendous numbers, they're still not native.
LAUREN: Are we native to this planet?
THERRY: No, we are not native to this planet Earth.
LAUREN: So we were seeded, and we were from a different dimension?
THERRY: No, we're native to this dimension because we're carbon-based, but we're not native to the planet Earth.
BLAKE: How do we really know this is a carbon-based Universe? and we're just not un-native?
THERRY: Because, rocks do not colonize.
BLAKE: Okay (chuckles).
THERRY: And, other planets, such as the moon, the matter that creates the physical, doesn't colonize.
BLAKE: Yea, that was a stupid question.
THERRY: I agree.
LAUREN: Could you get into a spaceship, and travel so fast, and so far in this physical Universe, and get to another dimension?
THERRY: Yes.
LAUREN: And, what would that be like when you broke into the new dimension? You're still on the physical.
THERRY: But you're not on this physical. You're in a new dimension, and who knows what set of laws are in effect there.
LAUREN: See, I thought you traveled to different dimensions on..., by..., in..., well, I guess there's any number of ways to travel to different dimensions.
THERRY: Correct, and obviously, each various dimension has its own subset of law.
LAUREN: So, if you are in a dream state, and you find yourself able to walk through what appears to be solid, is that a different level or a different dimension?
THERRY: Okay, because you mentioned the words dream-state, it is possible that you are simply in your laboratory, in which case you would simply be on a different level.
LAUREN: In the same dimension, but on a different level?
THERRY: Yes.
LAUREN: Yet, you could have left your body and traveled to a different dimension? You could have that experience?
THERRY: It's a possibility, but very unlikely, because normally, when you are going into alter-realities, they all remain within the same dimension. You normally don't leave this dimension until after you have mastered this dimension, and there is no man who has ever come close to that.
BLAKE: So, you're referring to all levels of the created carbon dimension?.
THERRY: Yea. This is not to say that the technology has not grown to allow an individual to go from one dimension to another.
LAUREN: It has?
THERRY: Sure it has.
LAUREN: How so?
THERRY: Well, it may come as a shock to you, but we're, people of planet earth, are not the smartest people in creation.
LAUREN: Well, I knew that! I thought you meant--I guess I was confused. I thought you meant on this planet.
THERRY: Perhaps you've got blinders on. Perhaps you change what it is that I say to fit what you have in your mind. I thought we were talking about the Song Of Death and not just the people of earth.
LAUREN: (Laugh) Yea, well, I've done it before.
GAVIN: Is it possible for someone to temporarily fall into another dimension?
THERRY: No, you can't accidentally cross a barrier.
GAVIN: Okay, can you go to another dimemsion without you mastering all the levels because of some Karma, or some external force?
THERRY: That would be against the law. The only way you could accidentally, or specifically go into another dimension in order to equalize Karma would be if you had Karma to equalize in that other dimension. And, if that were the case, how would you have gotten there to begin with? Remember the law, Each unto his own Kind. What is incurred in the flesh must be paid in the flesh.
BLAKE: (Laugh) Oh, so I must have mastered all other dimensions since I'm here in this one.
THERRY: Don't flatter yourself, you're native to this dimension, remember? (chuckles) Let's keep this on a serious note.
LAUREN: So, what would be the definition of a dimension, then?
THERRY: I just gave it to you.
LAUREN: An area of the garden which has the same chemical base?
THERRY: Yea. This particular dimension happens to be carbon-based. One hundred percent of everything that is native to this dimension is carbon-based. Even water is carbon-based.
BLAKE: I want to bring it up to the energy level. Is that carbon-based? An energy form? I mean, it's really not matter. Are we including energy life-forms, pure energy?
THERRY: Yea. They're carbon-based too... Except that we wouldn't recognize it as such because--
BLAKE: Okay.
THERRY: Plus, you brought something else into it that none of us have spoken about yet.
BLAKE: Oh, sorry.
THERRY: Because, as you rise higher in the continuum of creation,--
BLAKE: Things overlap?
THERRY: Yea, such that a certain level of creation may have its influence over more than one dimension. Energy would be that thing. It has its influence over about seven different dimensions, so that from its level, that dimension would equal, lets say, seven of our physical levels. But that's a new concept which has no place here for now.
LAUREN: There are a hundred and forty-four levels to the Earth experience.
THERRY: Yes, and no... the number 144 is just another way of saying "countless".
LAUREN: And, are there countless dimensions?
THERRY: To the Earth experience?
LAUREN: Not to the Earth experience, but to, I don't know to what.
THERRY: The answer in both cases is yes.
LAUREN: There are countless levels to the Earth experience, and countless levels to other forms of experience?
THERRY: Yes. Remember, Creation exists in all veins, that's why it's called a fabric. Remember your spider web? We look at it and we see all of the various threads just on one plane. Well, imagine if you will, that same spider web, whose threads on one plane are so dense that it looks absolutely solid, `cause there are so many threads. Then, imagine, if you will, that that plane spins, so that what exists on one plane also exists on every possible plane three hundred and sixty degrees in a spherical way, such that you have a solid thing in your hand. That's the fabric-like nature of Creation. Creation exists on every conceivable vein of Creation, and level, and whatever, and that is what created the physical or the solid universe as we know it. The very seed of creation is what governs it all, and the seed of it all is the Prime, the Secondary, and the Triune laws of Creation.
Just those three are all that is used to recombine to make the solidness of Recursive Dialusion. Those three are, for the lack of a better word, the RNA and the DNA of the Universe; of Creation, itself; not strictly of this dimension. From Unity came Duality; from Duality came Triunity, and thus diversity came into being from sameness. and along each thread of Creation it has its own subset of law which governs it. I guess that makes everything as clear as mud. (chuckles)
BLAKE: As clear as mud in a crystal goblet. (chuckles)
LAUREN: Would the definition of level be a different point along the continuum of awareness?
THERRY: That's one good definition.
LAUREN: What's another?
THERRY: A different law; or within the influence of a different law.
LAUREN: When you think along those lines, concepts like whether the country makes it or not become very unimportant.
THERRY: Yes.
LAUREN: This is continuing talking about certain laws and how to apply them in my everyday life. In communications equation, what goes on in your mind is unimportant; it's what goes on in the other person's mind that counts. Now, first of all, if you're interacting with someone, how are you going to know what's going on in their mind? You can only guess, right?
THERRY: That's true; that's not the point from the observation which you should take. The law is designed to guide you, and when you're responding to someone, it guides you in terms of which words to choose, and which intonations to use. For instance, if somebody asks you the question, "Is there going to be a tomorrow?" Well, if your intonations are inappropriate for the situation, then, it's bad communication. You're paying closer attention to what's going on in your own head instead of the other person's head. The other person could be very very very worried that the bomb's gonna drop, and he may be very frightened; so he may turn around and ask, "Is there going to be a tomorrow?" Well, obviously, if you turn around and say," Don't be so silly!" well, you're paying attention to what's going on in your head, not theirs.
LAUREN: So, you are able to pick up their illusion to a certain degree by hearing their emotions, in a sense?
THERRY: Right, because, remember, communication is a lot more than just talking, and when you speak to someone, or when you address a concern, you have to be aware to do so on more than one level at one time. Not only must you be aware of the verbal level, you must be aware of the emotional level, and the situational level. So, its a pretty involved thing. Also, if you're going to use a set of words, and a set of phraseologies that is totally beyond the individual's capacity for understanding, you're talking to yourself, you're not talking to them.
LAUREN: It's like whenever I talk with Z, my verbal language has to immediately become very, well, it's limited, and it's very clear, because if I use any kind of words that are the slightest bit advanced in their meaning, that doesn't make sense, does it? Well, she won't understand what the word means, and then communication ceases to exist.
THERRY: If you simply rattle off using your extensive vocabulary or your own theatre or whatever, because it's an opportunity to show off, what the hell good is that, if you leave the individual behind, or you leave them confused?
LAUREN: Communication is tied in with the necessity of the Role, isn't it?
THERRY: Exactly
LAUREN: They can't be one without the other.
THERRY: Exactly. You have to learn to serve the situation, and as you said, or as you recognized, it's very intricately tied in to accepting the needs of the role within a given situation. You have to address the other person's concerns, not yours.
LAUREN: How can you be sure--well, what I'm thinking of is of the different times I've come to you and said, " so and so said this to me, and they must have meant blah-blah-blah, and you said, " no, they didn't really mean that; they just didn't phrase it properly."
THERRY: I've never said that. I've always said, " perhaps they could have meant this, or they could have meant that. It doesn't necessarily mean that they meant this. I wouldn't presume to tell you what is in somebody else's head. All I would do is give you an alternate possibility, and let you decide on which game you want to play.
LAUREN: I've picked that up from other people, that it could be what I chose to play; it didn't matter what they said. Or they could have said something that seemed very insulting, say, yet, from their point of view, it wasn't insulting at all; yet, the way they chose to phrase it, it came off as insulting to me. How would I know not to do that to others?
THERRY: You have to bear in mind that just because you are being taught the proper rules of communication according to this law, that doesn't mean everybody else is going to do the same. You have to bear in mind that everybody, doesn't matter who they are, are serving the needs of their own particular situation as they see it, and they have certain reference points when they communicate. Those reference points may not necessarily equate to yours. And hence, they may make a phrase," It's just a dumb blond excuse". Well, that doesn't mean they're calling you a dumb blond, but it also, at the same moment, it doesn't mean that there's something there to stop you from playing the `dumb blond' game. I mean, just because someone says something that may not exactly seem right to you, all that is is an excuse for you to play a war game.
LAUREN: Right, is that because we always go to war with ourselves?
THERRY: Exactly. That's why that law is so important. Cause you've got to remember that it is your task in communication to code and decode according to the needs of the individual or group of individuals that you're speaking to within a relative situation. It is their task to code and decode according to your needs within the relative situation. But that doesn't mean that always occur. For you to demand that such a thing should occur, I think is another avenue, or another excuse to play a different game which will have its own little set of wars.
LAUREN: For instance, when I go down to that party on Thursday (Thanksgiving with relatives), if I start ranting on about how horrible the destruction of the environment, or nuclear warheads, I'm going to find myself kicked out real fast. Because that's not where their head's at?
THERRY: Yes.
LAUREN: Or, I will not have communicated properly at all when it comes to trying to know what's going on in these other people's minds. Because, already I know what goes on in their minds is not what I've just said. They're going to be having an entirely different illusion... right?
THERRY: Exactly. I mean, one of the responsibilities of this particular law that we're speaking of is that you don't go up to a KKK member and start speaking to them on how they should begin to love black men, or whatever derogatory term that they choose to use; that's just inappropriate action; and it doesn't matter how good your intent is, you never call a witch a witch, even though you know they are one. Not, and expect open arms, anyway. So, that indicates how very much it is tied to the Acceptance of the Role in any given situation.
LAUREN: Right, `cause it's dealing on so many levels.
THERRY: Right.
LAUREN: Friendship is but a stage where both will start the process of conversion. You know, when I first heard that, I thought, boy, that's pretty negative; but it's not, necessarily, `cause there's a whole continuum to conversion, right?
THERRY: Right.
LAUREN: I don't remember everything you said. I was listening to a tape and I heard that, and I wrote it down. I can't remember if you said that there are times when people can have a friendship and not try to convert.
THERRY: Yes.
LAUREN: There are? Then wouldn't that go against that go against this law?
THERRY: No. Just because you have the ability to doesn't demand that you must.
LAUREN: It says, is but a stage.
THERRY: Right.
LAUREN: Why doesn't it say, is sometimes a stage, or is usually a stage?
THERRY: They both mean the same.
LAUREN: `Is but' that sounds like that's all it is.
THERRY: It's all a stage, exactly. There's no codicils to that. It simply is a point along a continuum of friendship. It's neither positive nor negative, it simply is; and, because it is within that stage, that, of itself, in of itself, does not demand that you be positive or negative, it simply gives you an opportunity because of its being in existence. Can you see that?
LAUREN: So, it's the opportunity for conversion that exists here, it's not--
THERRY: Yea, it's the stages of acquiring friendships. You have to bear in mind that there are laws concerning the formation of, the conversion of, and the breaking up of friendships. Again, it's tied to the role in the scenario; the now-effect. I think, verbatim, it's the-influence of the Role-in-the-scenario, called the Now-Effect. There are some people who even go so far as saying, hey, if you can't convert your friends, what good are they? They even go so far as also saying, hey, if you can't take advantage of your friends, why bother having friends?
LAUREN: Yet there's also part of it where the individual is sharing all that they've got with a new friend; now, perhaps they're converting, or trying to convert in that process of sharing?
THERRY: Or, perhaps they are making themselves vulnerable by guiding the specific state of vulnerableness, which is one of the necessary stages of friendship. In order to achieve friendship with somebody, you have to make yourself vulnerable... Because friendship is a give and take situation. You give of yourself, and you take whatever they offer. That's a basic rule of friendship; friendship cannot exist without that process. And it's a two-way street; the other individual, or group, has to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately, that same process is a perfect opportunity for wars and enemies. But, nonetheless, it's still the same.
LAUREN: Are the laws that govern friendship very different from the laws that govern romantic involvement?
THERRY: Yes. Cause, you have to remember that there's a whole continuum there. The lover/marriage game is on one end of the continuum, and the unattached, unconditional friendships are on the other side of the continuum, and you have everything in between.
LAUREN: I remember when I was having so many problems with Tina because she would be entirely different with Bob than she was with me, and I say, but wait a minute, what's the difference here? Just because they're screwing, and she and I are not, I don't get it.
THERRY: Right, 'cause, obviously a very important part is the purpose for the existence of that friendship; or, let's not call it a friendship, let's call it a relationship. The relationship may exist at some point along that continuum of friendship, but, obviously the point along the continuum is very closely tied to the purpose. For instance, if you happen to be walking down the street in a strange place, suddenly you come across what you call an Adonis, well, you're going to try everything you can to get into his pants, or have him get into yours, or whatever facade that you're going to use to get to that point; you're going to find some way of getting to know him, and having him get to know you. Well, obviously, that whole shpeel is totally different from if you're walking down the same street and you happen to meet somebody accidentally; you begin talking, and suddenly you realize you two have a lot in common, and perhaps you'd like to do dinner sometime.
LAUREN: Your wants are entirely different.
THERRY: Exactly, because the purpose is different.
LAUREN: Your purpose for that man or woman--I would think sex is the prime guiding force there... right?
THERRY: Obviously.
LAUREN: But with the other, sex might not enter it at all... right?
THERRY: Exactly. And, it may be still on a different point along the continuum, you may meet someone, and for no reason, on that day you may end up being hornier than hell; you'll have sex with a snake if you can get hold of it. So, in that condition, you're walking and you meet somebody who meets your fancy; he's got two legs and something hanging in between them. So he's just right to meet your needs. And he may turn around feeling exactly the same way; it's a good opportunity for a quick dip, and hey, let's go our own separate ways. And, perhaps, for whatever reason, at the end of the dip, you may both decide, hey this was damn good, let's meet again sometimes. Okay, how 'bout Wednesday? Oh no, I can't Wednesday, I'm busy, I have a lunch meeting, how 'bout Thursday? And you say, no, I can't Thursday, I've gotta pick up somebody. Then you say what about Friday? And it goes back and forth until you guys find a mutual time.
Maybe next week--I'll give you a call. And he says, "Okay." And you barter, you whatever. There's no romance in it. It's just mutual satisfaction of needs. And in the process, over time, you find out that you enjoy doing things together, but you're no where as near connected to each other in any form. It's just not there romantically. So you guys develop a friendship, and you dip every now and then. That is called compatible friendship. It is a basic friendship that's here or there according to the needs of the moment. And sometimes you'll dip one another in more ways than one. And you'll both agree to it; and you'll both enjoy it. It's called a compatible friendship which is totally different from the first set of conditions. Because with the Adonis gig, you may end up being so foolish as to even try to play the marriage game. That way you have an opportunity to play the divorce game. Whereas, in the compatible friendship, those two games are avoided totally.
LAUREN: Friendships between people that have no sexual involvement, say, because people's needs change throughout their life, they come and go with friends; they'll drop ones from earlier times, and gather new ones as they get older... is that the way it is?
THERRY: According to the rules of friendship. For some people, the friendship is unconditional, and it doesn't matter how much you change, you're always friends. Each time you meet, maybe you haven't seen each other for twenty years, but yet when you meet, it's just as though you met them yesterday. There's no change.
LAUREN: Can a friendship start out with a lot of conditions, and then change to being unconditional?
THERRY: Yes, that's one of the rules. Again, you're dealing with a continuum. There's so many varied possibilities, it's mind-boggling. One thing, usually, if a relationship starts as a mad love-affair, very seldom will it turn into a compatible friendship. It may turn into an estranged friendship, or a cordial friendship, but very seldom will it change into a compatible friendship.
LAUREN: It seems that my friendship with Babe has changed dramatically.. is that an effect of law too?.
THERRY: Sure, because the purpose for the relationship changes.
LAUREN: Yet I don't feel like I'm less close to her; in some ways I feel even closer, how come?
THERRY: That's got nothing to do with it. Understand, nothing exists in a vacuum. It's a fabric. Absolutely every phenomenon that exists exists within a fabric; and therefore it must serve at least one purpose on every level. If there's no purpose for being, there will be no being. Again you have to understand that there's a lot of laws involved. Cause it's a continuum.
LAUREN: You may give me this one, but it could be the tip of the iceberg.
THERRY: Yea. Every point along that continuum has its own sub-set of laws Which govern the illusion of that point, and it could be totally totally totally different from all the other points.
LAUREN: When you meet somebody and you click instantly as friends; is more often than not that because of past-life relationships?
THERRY: Or, the situation is such that there's an immediate mutual exchange of needs. But more often than not, it's a past life thing. Same thing if there's an immediate dis-like. Again, you have to bear in mind, like all of the laws we teach, there is a duality that is akin to them in that a phenomenon is affected by their presence, and there is an equal phenomenon that is present because of their absence.
LAUREN: I don't understand that.
THERRY: Well, every target behavior within every role within every situation within every happening, let's call that syndrome is being affected in two ways. By the presence of something, and by the absence of something. Like for instance, you may be in a situation whereby the presence of a friendship could be the controlling factor of that situation. But it's also a possibility that the controlling factor of that situation would be the absence of that friendship. They would have two totally drastically different outcomes. And that's the basis of many people playing the game `If it wasn't for you'. If it wasn't for you being here, I could have done this this this and this, or had this this this and that.
LAUREN: They're taking the duality into effect without even knowing it?
THERRY: Right. Likewise, they could also be saying," If you had been there, then I could have avoided this this this and that." So, it's two different things. Quite often you can see a version of that when they say, " you promised, you didn't keep your word, therefore this was absent, and I demanded it, and expected that it would be present." So, you can see it's also very intricately connected to expectations and demands. Again, every one of these things, they're not in a vacuum. They're just one thread of a large fabric called the situation in the illusion.
LAUREN: All right. First of all, I didn't have all of this law; I couldn't remember how the last part goes. If a man steals your hat, give him your cloak as well, for within his reality his need is greater than yours; A man who possesses nothing can be possessed by nothing; a man who is possessed by nothing is possessed by all things?
THERRY: Is possessed by The Great Force.
LAUREN: A man who is possessed by nothing is possessed by the Great Force.
THERRY: A man who is possessed by The Great Force is all things, or is possessed by all things. The appropriate way is to say, is all things. For they possess the All.
LAUREN: It would seem that a man who possesses nothing, does he break through certain of the limitations--
THERRY: If he possesses nothing, again, they're not talking about--that law does not address physical possessions; that law addresses attachments, attitudes and emotions. If the individual has the attitude or the emotion that money is power, and therefore I must have money, and possessions to show my status, then, obviously, he is possessed by his possessions rather than he possessing the possessions. Then he spends all of his time worrying about the care and the safety, and the whole shit load that power rat-race comes.
LAUREN: You see that most often with people with money, it has begun to control them, they don't control it. You can see that with people with vanity; they no longer have control over it; it controls them... is that it?
THERRY: Yes. You see that a lot in theatre.
LAUREN: You mean how theatre is used to show this law?
THERRY: No, the people, the actors and the actresses, vie for the limelight.
LAUREN: Oh, they are possessed by the attention-getting.
THERRY: Right. They cut each other apart, they do anything, `cause it's the power game.
LAUREN: It takes many forms.
THERRY: Right; again, you're talking about a continuum.
LAUREN: You can't look at this law and say, oh, someone takes my coat, here, I'll give them my hat!
THERRY: Exactly.
LAUREN: It's not the literal translation that's important.
THERRY: Right. Now, what they're saying is, if you place your heart in no physical phenomenon, then you cannot be corrupted; your purpose is pure. Therefore, if your purpose is pure, your love for the Universe is pure, it cannot be corrupted. And if you cannot be corrupted, and it you are in love with the Universe, rather then with the games of the planet, then there are no bridges or doors that lock you out of alter-realities.
LAUREN: You can be possessed by fear and greed and stubbornness?
THERRY: Yes.
LAUREN: All those aspects, those negative parts of man--
THERRY: No, no, it is not you who possess them, it is them who are playing on you.
LAUREN: Oh, I said you can be possessed by;
THERRY: Yes. But you can break that possession.
LAUREN: If you desire to be a servant of the Universe, is that one of the steps? Because you don't want to be a master in hell; you want to be a servant in Heaven?
THERRY: Right, that's one way of putting it; in which case, you are possessed by nothing; therefore, you are possessed by The Great Force.
LAUREN: And it's not necessarily leading an ascetic lifestyle or giving up all material possessions, it's your attitude towards them. How many attachments you have towards things, people?
THERRY: Yes, and what you do with what you have.
LAUREN: Right. You can be possessed by excessive individuality--well, I don't know if that will work, `cause that's a whole continuum there-- right?
THERRY: You find that most likely in theatre, or more aware of its existence in theatre; the limelight power game; and in politics.
LAUREN: Remember when I had that phone conversation with Babe just recently when she was in New York? And I thought how much I had talked just like her when I was in acting, and having moved away from it, I'm not talking or thinking those same things. The example was when she was talking about so and so, her friend, ex-friend, who has made it big, there was no thought of, hey, she's famous, that's great, it was more like, she's cutthroat, we know she did everything she could to get to the top, and we know she didn't do it legally, and she'll sleep her way to get anything?
THERRY: Exactly.
LAUREN: And it was all, I'm going to be better than her because I'm not going to do it that way, it was putting the other down?
THERRY: Yea, mine is better than your game.
LAUREN: Which is so common in theatre, it's unbelievable, I guess.
THERRY: But that's also in politics. A perfect example of this is look what they're doing to 'The Bird". There's no call for that.
LAUREN: Right, just like what they did during the campaign. They put one another down constantly.
THERRY: Right; there's no call for that; but this is an example of that.
LAUREN: If you want to follow this law, there must be--maybe I'm incorrect--certain roles that a person chooses to play in their life, they just simply cannot play if they want to follow this law, is that true?
THERRY: Yes, that is true. But then, that is true for every game. Again, you've got to bear in mind, Glo, you're talking about a syndrome which creates an illusion, and each law belongs into a very specific game, which it is the interaction of that game with your personality that creates that illusion. And you have to bear in mind that you are dealing with the continuum of both the absence and the presence.
LAUREN: What I'm wondering is, you said there are certain roles you cannot play? Right. A person couldn't remain as an actor in theatre and not play certain games; not have the excessive ego to the degree that most people in theatre have it, not have the desire for the limelight?
THERRY: Maybe I can answer that by asking you another question. Which would be more pertinent to what we're really talking about--can you serve two masters? Can you serve more than one master?
Note: the next session (009) continues this conversation