Arkashean Q&A Session -- 020

ALICE: I'm looking at my job differently now. I guess it's a stimulating environment, but then the thing is that, I'm confused about my feelings about it. I mean initially it was like, if I pursue something more mental, after discovering how important it was for me to use my creativity, I thought that I couldn't do anything else, because I needed that artistic side in me, that appreciates the visual and all that, you know?

THERRY: Let's call it a need to self-express.

ALICE: Okay, the need to self-express. And that was like, that's been pretty important to me, I think, you know. I don't know if that has to do with, throughout my lifetime, not really having indulged in hobbies and now that I've started to...

THERRY: Why should that be a problem? There's nothing wrong with that.

ALICE: Yeah, but I feel that I haven't fulfilled anything?

THERRY: Your life ain't over with either.

ALICE: Yeah. So I guess what I'm doing it is seeing it in total terms. It's one or the other and it's not necessarily true, right?

THERRY: Correct.

ALICE: Yeah. But everybody can have multiple talents that they can develop?

THERRY: Yes. Just because everybody can though doesn't mean that everybody does. Depends on the individual.

ALICE: Well, isn't it hard to have multiple foci?

THERRY: Nope. Every individual should have at least three threads spinnings in their life, one for work, one for hobbies and one for back-up information.

ALICE: So what happens to people who have jobs that are like all-consuming? They need them as well?

THERRY: So they end up being burnt out, what can I tell you? Every human being must take time for relaxation. It's a funny thing about that. A person can work very, very hard for the office and for recreation he can work in his garage and work like hell trying to fix his car, but to him it's relaxation.

ALICE: Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Well, sometimes I don't think of this artistic thing as being relaxation at all either. Sometimes I do. I guess that's something I have to solve on my own. Okay. With this whole thing with these two job offers that I got, it's like...

THERRY: I can't talk to you about those. That's all yours.

ALICE: Oh, okay.

THERRY: 'Cause that would have the effect of me...

ALICE: Helping...

THERRY: Right, and I can't tell you what to do with your life in any form, shape or manner.

ALICE: I don't want to discuss that, but there's an issue involved in that is related to my fear of authority. This kind of came up in one of sessions with the shrink person I'm seeing. It just seems that sometimes I am afraid to be very assertive about some things?

THERRY: You'll work it out, that's all I can say about that for now.

ALICE: Right. Okay. I'm still having problems deciding what I am sexually and it's... troublesome?

THERRY: Why bother trying to decide? Why not simply live your life moment for moment and as the moment comes, it'll take care of itself. 'Cause there are some people on the planet who they are neither male nor female, they're always changing.

ALICE: Oh, really? Is that a lot of people?

THERRY: Yeah. Sometimes they are perfectly male and sometimes they're perfectly females and the rest of the times they don't know what they are. They have to wait for the moment and find out what their urges are.

ALICE: Yeah. Because I mean I... for the past several months I felt comfortable with male company as friends and at the same time, with certain males there's this kind of fear again which I'm trying to deal with my shrink and I don't know if now I've kind of blown it out of proportion because I'm kind of working on it with someone else. So it's like exaggerated because I'm trying to see too much in whatever I feel. But it's kind of confusing because I prefer male company and sometimes I don't and I'm fearful of the contact or having to deal with...

THERRY: Your shrink will help you out on that.

ALICE: What else about that? Well, then a couple months ago about Christmas time or before then, you said that it's best to avoid sex, which I have.

THERRY: If you can. There's a lot of diseases out there.

ALICE: Well, I have one any way! But you mentioned it in relationship specifically to spirituality as well, though?

THERRY: Well, that's something different. They're on two separate roads.

ALICE: Yeah. Okay, so if you're not headed towards celibacy but you'd like to pursue the spiritual...

THERRY: See, the big key is that is if you're not hung up with a mate or trying to find a mate or trying to keep a mate, then you have more time, more quality time for your mind to turn to spiritual matters.

ALICE: So I guess... so it doesn't make a difference if I'm celibate or abstinent by default and think or fantasize about sex?

THERRY: Obviously it depends on how much time you spend there.

ALICE: What? Thinking and fantasizing about it? Oh, okay. So in other words if I'm trying to focus my energy on being more spiritual and I do that for a bigger amount of time and don't focus as much on other stuff because I guess I fantasize about having sex, but that's just of late, not all the time. Okay. The other thing too is that even though I fantasize about sex sometimes I'm still very uncomfortable with physicality sometimes, with them touching me sometimes. Is that a function of being confused about my sexuality?

THERRY: Could be a number of things. Doesn't have to be a function of being confused. Could be other things.

ALICE: Well, also about being confused if I want to be celibate or temporarily celibate.

THERRY: I'm sure that plays a part in it.

ALICE: Okay. Moving right along here. How do we know what not to tell others in terms of private things?

THERRY: Seek within.

ALICE: Seek within? But obviously if I have a problem with truth then, then that would be a hard time to seek within.

THERRY: If, for instance, you're talking to someone that you don't know all that well, it's a good to guard yourself.

ALICE: Yeah. Right. Well, just in terms of when I have discussions with Shirley?

THERRY: Isn't Shirley is your lifelong best friend? Be free.

ALICE: Yeah? Oh, okay.

THERRY: With any peripheral of Arkashea or Arkashean you can say anything that you like.

ALICE: Even if it's about private experiences that I've had but they're not secret? Okay. Right. Well, I've been pretty lonely these days and I can't understand why, because before when I first met Arkashea, when I first came in contact with Arkashea, it was like a sense of relief that I wasn't alone anymore and I guess now I'm feeling lonelier and I guess I kind of thought, well, maybe it's because I know I have to make a lot of decisions on my own and I still rely to a large extent on getting answers from you or others?

THERRY: You shouldn't. The more you rely on others to get answers, the more we have to pull away from you.

ALICE: Oh, okay. So in other words... So I guess I have to find my own answers. Another change too is like a few months and years, I felt that at some level I was working on my relationship with my parents, because I seemed to accept them a little bit more... a couple months ago I was feeling really, really good because I felt that something positive was happening in terms of my relationship and then all of a sudden I started going to a shrink then there's just this one incident that set off all of these negative feelings and then I said, "Oh, no!" I felt that I had totally retrogressed and what happened to the start of the good feeling kind of died, you know. Is that because everything happens in cycles or what?

THERRY: Could be.

ALICE: Or could it also be that I'm unearthing other feelings?

THERRY: Other things that you weren't dealing with before.

ALICE: Oh, okay. But does it still mean that the initial positive change could still be there... but that I want to try to deal with everything in its totality?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: Alright. There's one question that I have that I forgot to ask you about. The initial reason that I started going to a shrink was that you said that if I wanted to deal with a specific problem which had to deal with my fear of men, then that maybe I should see a hypno-therapist of something like that?

THERRY: No, I said go see a shrink. I never said that hypno crap. I would never tell someone to place themselves under hypnosis. I always say go see a shrink, a qualified psychiatrist or psychologist.

ALICE: Alright. Okay. That's really weird though because that kind of stuck in my mind, I don't know why. So if you're dealing with certain things and there are certain problems that are so deep-rooted that you may have blocked them out of your mind, would it still be possible to unearth those feelings with psychotherapy?

THERRY: It's a possibility. It depends on how qualified the individual that you're seeing is. It's also possible that something could be so deep that it would take a hypno-therapist to bring them out.

ALICE: Oh. Yeah.

THERRY: But you never know which is which until you actually start using them.

ALICE: Yeah. Okay. And of course, after you see a hypno-therapist and you unearth, or if you unearth something traumatic then you need to go back to see a psychotherapist.

THERRY: Well, usually they're the same... If they're qualified in the right areas the psychologist or the psychiatrist is qualified to use hypnosis.

ALICE: Yeah, okay. But uh-hmmm. Also what I've found out too is that they're very few hypno-therapists that are women, which seemed very strange to me, but that's besides the point, I guess. The main thing, I guess, is that if I ever took the hypno-therapist route, is to be able to find someone that is qualified. I did look into and contact the APA, the American Psychiatric Association and the referrals they gave me were all MDs.

THERRY: All APAs are MDs.

ALICE: So I wouldn't be getting run of the mill people?

THERRY: That's the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist has to go to medical school, a psychologist doesn't.

ALICE: So which one is preferable then?

THERRY: Each individual has to decide that for themselves.

ALICE: Oh, okay. That makes sense. Let's see what else I have to ask you. Now, what is the basis of the fight or the flight concept?

THERRY: Survival.

ALICE: Survival? That has nothing to do with suicide then?

THERRY: No.

ALICE: So does that include how you deal with the changes in your life as well?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: Okay. Whether you want to stick it out and fight to make the change or you just kind of cower about what's happening?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: I think I had something to ask about sexuality, but I don't remember. Oh, yeah, you said some types of fear has to do with when sexuality can be constantly changing?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: So would it be possible that at a certain stage of your life that it started to change, or maybe it could be all throughout or any variation is possible?

THERRY: Any variation is possible.

ALICE: Oh, okay. So I guess it doesn't make sense to just not worry about it. Just go with the flow?

THERRY: Correct.

ALICE: This is about something completely different. I had a very weird dream last night and I feel very uncomfortable. I don't know how to deal with it. How do you deal with dreams like that?

THERRY: You look at them and see them for what they are.

ALICE: Well, it's kind of hard seeing them for what they are when you're kind of reacting to the situation. If I see it in general terms, well, maybe this is just a learning situation, and then...

THERRY: You can adopt that attitude if you want to, sure.

ALICE: So seeing...

THERRY: Just look at the dream in terms of what the content is... and where their emotions take you. And then deal with it according to the content.

ALICE: Yeah.

THERRY: Sometime it's good to think of the dream as a message from another part of you... Just make believe that maybe it is a message.

ALICE: A message?

THERRY: It doesn't have to be a message, but maybe it is a message and then deal with it from that point of view. That makes it easier to tell you how to deal with it.

ALICE: But can you deal with dreams at two levels, to lessen your fear of it? 'Cause when I start getting scared, like when it just like, really weird, then I start to deny that it has any validity probably just because I don't want to accept that it may have some validity.

THERRY: You have to remember that fear is the barrier that prevents man from achieving greater wisdom, therefore you could be working on fear itself... in which case the content is designed to create the fear that the dream is making you experience.

ALICE: Oh, okay. Okay.

THERRY: Fear is also a warning system that tells you when you're approaching something that you need to be careful for. Even though both are the exact same barrier, they still serve two different purposes.

ALICE: Yeah. But when I start having dreams like that I start thinking that their might be something about my attitude about sex that was rooted in some sort of trauma or something?

THERRY: It's possible. Here again, seek a qualified psychiatrist or psychologist and they'll help you with that. That's not my function. I refuse to be somebody's shrink.

DONNA: So how do you deal with having a disease like MS (Multiple Sclerosis) or Cancer without coming out in a self-defeatist kind of thing...?

THERRY: Well, the best way that I know of so as you get the best out of the answer is that if somebody hands you a bunch of lemons, you get good help so you can make lemonade.

DONNA: So this is something that I can learn from, this is something that can be positive?

THERRY: Sure thing.

DONNA: Because it's a lesson that I have to learn? Is it karma from this lifetime?

THERRY: It doesn't have to be.

DONNA: It doesn't have to be karma? It can be...

THERRY: A new lesson.

DONNA: A new lesson which is like the Universal Zap?

THERRY: It would be a free-will choice.

DONNA: A free-will choice, so that I've chosen to accept...

THERRY: Again, you have gone from the statement "does it have to be karma" and I said no, it doesn't have to be, so now you've automatically assumed that it is. But it doesn't have to be. You have to keep thinking in terms of, it could be but it doesn't have to be, so whatever questions you ask, it could be free-will such that you have chosen to learn a new lesson... but it does not have to be.

DONNA: But I might as well treat it as such. The way to do that is to get to learn myself?

THERRY: And to make the best of whatever situation that you find yourself in. Don't resign yourself to "there's nothing that you can do" 'cause there's always things that you can do. You may not always succeed in what you want to do, but there are things that you can do.

DONNA: But that's not the same thing as... like I haven't seen my doctor in four months, and I stopped taking the medication. I didn't see that as resignation. I saw that as something that wasn't helpful to me. It's not... you can have something and work with it on other levels, it doesn't have to be strictly a physical thing. I guess what it comes down to is, if I'm not seeing my doctor, I'm not... it doesn't mean that I have resigned myself to it?

THERRY: It doesn't necessarily have to be that, but it could be the fact that you've made a decision. For instance, let's say an individual has cancer and they know that if they go through the whole whatever that they may survive it, but they may decide that 'Mother Nature' has given me this and this is an opportunity, so no. I won't go through the games. I'll let Society and circumstances unfold as they will. So in that case, you have simply decided this is the time to die. Since there is a great chance that I will die anyway, then I have chosen to die via this way, as opposed to going through a whole lot of other contraptions anyway.

DONNA: So that is not suicide?

THERRY: That is not suicide. That is voluntarily choosing that it is time to leave.

DONNA: I have a lot of external things, I feel like I can deal with this too. I feel like I've used this to let some things, like major things...

THERRY: Nobody's perfect.

DONNA: Yeah, yeah. It's inside and it's outside.

ALICE: That's almost like me and my illness. At first I thought that I'd accepted it, but then I realized that it was denial. And now I'm doing what I have to do and just going forward from there...

DONNA: So I've pretty much decided to allow my situation? With Dick I've decided to get an apartment and I'm not worried if I'll be able to afford it.

THERRY: It doesn't make it that bad.

DONNA: I can't stay up for eight hours a day, 'cause my energy level doesn't make it that far. So it's going to have to be a complete change in lifestyle for me. I'm figuring out how it could have happened?

TINA: Okay. Is it enough to just stop the behavior unless you really understand why you're doing that behavior before you can change it?

THERRY: It is one of the ways of trying to change it.

TINA: That's okay to do that then?

THERRY: Sure.

TINA: I thought that you said that no, you... I thought you said that it really won't stop until you actually change it.

THERRY: No, it won't be a permanent thing, until you make the actual change. If you simply stop a behavior, it's possible that you're only scratching the veneer and later on they'll just go back to the same behavior.

TINA: Is changing only a behavior like lying then and just pretending?

THERRY: No, it's not like lying. It's more like making a temporary change. It's like smokers. "It's easy to stop! I've stopped a thousand times."

TINA: When I called you on the phone before and asked you about my father and you talked to me about part of what I wasn't understanding, a part of what I was doing was trying to deny my father his right to free-will, his right to do whatever he wanted. There's a part of me that still doesn't quite understand that, but I thought about it for a while and I thought, well at least, when I'm with him, I'm going to try to have a more friendly, open kind of an attitude. I just recently spent Father's Day with him and my mother - my stepmother and my grandfather and it was a really, nice day. We had a nice day talking and chatting and walking and it was one of the nicest days that we've ever had. And then the next day after that, he called me up and asked me if I wanted to go a movie with them, and they have never called me to just go out and have a social thing. So that seemed to me that because I had made some decision in my mind, already the change was starting to happen?

THERRY: Yeah.

TINA: That's not necessarily going to be a permanent change? As you saw yesterday, I'm obviously still upset, but at least I'm not belligerent or argumentative like I was before?

THERRY: Yes.

TINA: So there still can be progress?

THERRY: It all depends on your behavior with him. Obviously, if you allow your internal feelings to come into play when you're actually dealing with him and you're letting him know, then you'll have to begin again. But if you don't allow your internal feelings to go to war with him and back him in the corner to force him to recognize the things that you went through, then things can continue.

TINA: It'll still be a superficial change?

THERRY: Well, it doesn't have to be superficial in that, with time as you have better times or more time to have better quality time with him, then you'll stop the war and then it'll be a permanent change with him.

TINA: You mean those feelings will gradually go away?

THERRY: Right.

TINA: So what you said earlier about having to go through this painful process, that seemed pretty easy.

THERRY: Yes it is.

TINA: So where does the pain part come in?

THERRY: The pain comes from the resistance in you to give up. So long as you insist on demanding that he be accountable to his choices against you, then there's going to be a lot of pain there.

TINA: Oh, but I don't have to do it that way.

THERRY: You don't have to do it that way. You can accept the fact that he has his right to do whatever he chooses to do and his choice may not have been your choices but it was just as valid. And if you accept that and go on from there, then there need not be all that pain.

TINA: Okay. I got nervous when you said that it was going to be a painful process.

THERRY: It is if you make it that way.

TINA: No, I thought you said that it had to be.

THERRY: Let's look at it in terms of what has already happened. Didn't you say that there's already been a hell of a lot of pain?

TINA: Yeah, that's true. Oh, I see, I've already gone through that part.

THERRY: So the law has fulfilled itself. So you now are at the point where you can make the decision, do you want more of it, or is it, "Hey, enough is enough already?"

TINA: No, I think it's enough. I think it's enough because I'm to the point that I'm getting myself in trouble. So if I don't stop now, I'm going to be in some serious trouble. It was part of it when I stopped the drinking. I was out of control and then I was worried about cocaine for a while, but that's gone way done now.

THERRY: That should be reduced to nothing, otherwise you're in for some trouble.

TINA: You mean stop it immediately?

THERRY: You should look at it as though you had your hands on a hot stove. The longer that you stay there the more pain that you're guaranteed to have. You may think that it's recreational, but it is affecting your mind, and your ability to control things and your ability to think and it's also affecting the neural synapses within your body. So you may be setting yourself up so your body is going to fall apart a whole lot faster. Those are things that it doesn't matter what you do, you get stuck with, sorta of like Terry's MS

TINA: When my Dad was here about a month ago, he thought I was , I thought I was dropping dead on the street for five minutes.

THERRY: You can do that. It [cocaine] will cause that. Like I said, obviously it's not for me to tell you what to do with your life, but if you had any smarts at all, you would stay away from drugs. It all gets back to, how much pain you want to play with.

TINA: I keep on asking myself, what is it that I like about drugs. Am I really trying to kill myself?

THERRY: That's easy. What a person likes about it is the fact that temporarily it numbs the awareness of the existence of the pain that it covers. It's the same thing with alcohol. It's like taking an aphrodisiac and a tranquilizer at the same time. The aphrodisiac is there to get you horny, but if you don't get horny, you don't care anyway, so you're not going nowhere fast.

TINA: So why do I like the physical thing about it?

THERRY: Everybody likes the sensation of the illusion and lust and it's good.

TINA: So am I trying to kill myself?

THERRY: You'll have to see your shrink for that.

TINA: When I thought I was going to drop dead for five minutes I really did realize that I didn't want to.

THERRY: Well, maybe there was a reason that you ended the game.

TINA: That's true, I thought so that day. You said something before like the responsibility when a debt has to be carried not paid yet, but you're still mad about it - that it happened... When you say that your debt's not paid yet, then it will happen again?

THERRY: If there are unpaid debts it will happen again.

TINA: What if I was a chain murderer?

THERRY: It doesn't matter what it is, it will happen again and again and again and again until you accept your responsibility for making the proper changes.

TINA: So if change is that simple, why am I mad about it? So you can know about something but not accept responsibility?

THERRY: Yes, but you simply change your expectations and demands about things.

TINA: I do a lot of stupid things, and I just get furious, really furious but don't about things that I should really get upset about, 'cause I misplace my anger. Why does it feel like that with the small, little details.

THERRY: You could choose, but you prefer to be chased... you're never extremely patient, but don't bet on it. You choose things which are safe but there's another game in that.

TINA: Does it have to do with different ends or something like that.

THERRY: It doesn't matter, you're still playing a game. And you're typically choosing something that is safe, but still a game.

TINA: I was talking to Cora and she told me her story about meditating. Years ago I tried meditating to fill the pain, but I was petrified about it. I feel that I had a fear about Astrating and I felt like it was something else.

THERRY: I wouldn't worry about it.

TINA: It's not important? I feel I should be quiet, still.

THERRY: Well, there are as many different ways to meditate as there are people on the moon.

TINA: So I shouldn't sit still... I can't sit and close my eyes for a long time. I feel the boogey man is sneaking up behind me. What would be a good way so I wouldn't have to do that to meditate.

THERRY: Think on your own. Each individual has to find their own method. That would be for me not for you and I have a different history than you have.

TINA: So everyone finds out how to do it on their own their own? Would what you were telling me yesterday be a form of meditating, just think things and reexamine it?

THERRY: If you accept it as such.

TINA: So that can be a form of meditation?

THERRY: As far as distractions can be a form of meditation.

TINA: Distractions? That would be distraction? Like reading or watching t.v. or something like that? Can I turn this off.

ALICE: It's like a version of the same thing that I asked you. If you talk to someone who wants to get an abortion, and you're being supportive and not telling them to do it, but you still said things like "Well, I understand, it's a lot to live with," but you still supported them, that's like telling them "Yes, go ahead and do it," isn't it?"

THERRY: Not really. It's simply being a friend.

ALICE: Oh, okay. But it could be mutual, but it also could be commission as well.

THERRY: I don't think so, not in that context.

ALICE: Oh, okay. Alright.

THERRY: Everything is psychic. Every time you have to use the mind, it's psychic.

ALICE: I don't know how I have this question down, but uh-hmmm. It has to do with people and their ability to know the difference between right and wrong?

THERRY: There's no such thing.

ALICE: There's no such thing?

THERRY: No. Right from wrong is a concept that has to be taught and that's part of acculturation.

ALICE: Oh, okay.

THERRY: And the recognition factor of each depends on your levels of truth. If your central thread is part of deception, then you'll very easily and very quickly negotiate what is right and what is wrong and it's ever-changing according to the purpose it's serving.

ALICE: Uh-hmmm. Oh, okay. Actually... I thought I heard you say that we all know right from wrong.

THERRY: True. Correct. We all know right and wrong. We learned it when you got acculturated into this society.

ALICE: Oh, okay. Okay, okay. If one of our central threads is vaguely spiritual, which doesn't mean that you're like perfect or anything like that, but you do have a spiritual inclination and stuff...

THERRY: That means you have spiritual tendencies.

ALICE: Okay, you have spiritual tendencies. Then does that mean... I'm getting confused.

THERRY: It just means you have spiritual tendencies. Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. It depends on the purpose and what you think you can get out of it.

ALICE: But everything... I mean, all things are spiritual, right?

THERRY: No.

ALICE: I thought that everything has a spiritual base?

THERRY: No, not at all. You want to go out and commit murder because you hate somebody, where the hell is the spirituality in it?

ALICE: But I thought maybe that was people who didn't listen to their spiritual sensibilities?

THERRY: It doesn't change the fact that all things are not spiritual.

ALICE: Oh. No, I thought I had heard that, but obviously, I was wrong I want to talk about committing life. There was a point that I heard on a tape where you said that committing life can be even worse than committing murder.

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: Can you explain that?

THERRY: Well, again, there are two types of pain, commission and omission and sometimes there's a cross-over, you commit by omitting. An example would be if somebody is dying but you refuse to let them die. You are officially keeping them alive. Then that is committing life, rather than killing them dead.

ALICE: So how is that omitting then? Omitting that they have free-will or omitting that they have a say in it or something?

THERRY: Not only that, but you omit death through the processes of life.

ALICE: So how is that worse than committing murder though?

THERRY: Because the pain is greater. When you commit murder the pain is what, like three seconds, four seconds, however long it takes them to die. [With] committing life, that same pain extends to who knows how long they are alive artificially. Because remember even though you artificially keep them alive, the rest of them is still going through the death process.

ALICE: So if you... okay, suppose you have a terminal relative or something... and you're emotions are keeping them alive... that's not committing life, is it?

THERRY: No.

ALICE: Committing life is only if you're keeping them alive by artificial means or something like that?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: So does that commission of life fall on the doctors?

THERRY: Doctors yes.

ALICE: And the law as well, right?

THERRY: No. A sin cannot be committed against a law, only against a people.

ALICE: Okay, well, people who're in the legal system and who determine whether or not someone should pull the plug on someone or not, do they commit life?

THERRY: Okay, they have that to deal with, but it is people that commit life, not the law.

ALICE: Okay. Uh-hmmm. What is the meaning of Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter?

THERRY: That's the sign that is written on the Door of Earth.

ALICE: Okay, how was that related to the first thought then.

THERRY: No, it's not.

ALICE: It's not? I'm getting confused. How about "What If, and But?" "What, If and But" relates to the first thought, and what is the second thought? Is it when we came down or the Descent or something?

THERRY: That doesn't apply.

ALICE: Okay, how about a different question. This has to do with Hades. The laboratory is in Hades, right?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: Do people in near-death experiences or coma situations go to Hades?

THERRY: They can but it doesn't necessarily happen though. There are a lot of other levels of experience other than Hades.

ALICE: But isn't Hades a place, well, not a place, but it's a state of being, right?

THERRY: Yeah.

ALICE: So it's a state of being which allows you to transition between one level and another?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: Okay. Uh-hmmm. So why have people gotten the wrong impression that Hades is hell?

THERRY: Corruption.

ALICE: Oh. Corruption of religion or what?

THERRY: Yes or purpose.

ALICE: Or purpose? What do you mean by that?

THERRY: Mind control.

ALICE: Okay. So the religious conception of purgatory is almost, not almost, because it talks about purgatory as a place...

THERRY: Purgatory doesn't exist. That is a Christian creation.

ALICE: But it sounds like the same concept though.

THERRY: It still doesn't exist and it's still a Christian creation.

ALICE: But then we don't know that Hades exists though...

THERRY: Yes, we know that Hades exists.

ALICE: Okay. Not on the conscious level.

THERRY: It doesn't change the fact that purgatory doesn't exist.

JOANA: Are the veils lifted in Hades or are they checked?

THERRY: Yes.

JOANA: Is that for everybody?

THERRY: Depends on the individual's karma.

ALICE: Oh, oh, I see. That's how you learn though, because the veils are lifted.

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: Yes, but you said that the veils for suicide are lifted. No, hold on, wait, no, no, no. That's not true. Is it true?

THERRY: Well, which one is it, is it true or is it not true?

ALICE: I don't know. I'm getting confused now. Yeah, they're not lifted in suicide...

THERRY: Correct.

ALICE: ...until they've suffered enough pain and then they come back [to the Earth Experience] to learn.

THERRY: Correct.

ALICE: Oh, okay. This is like a dream question. Uh-hmmm. I had a conversation with Bill. He said that there's a paradox where you can't learn anything in the laboratory until you learn some things on our level and vice versa.

THERRY: Correct.

ALICE: Now, how does that work?

THERRY: The trickling down effect. Each respective area or level is separated by specific types of barriers. Communication between or across that barrier is given by very specific laws. Just because you have an experience on one level, that doesn't automatically mean that you're going to have that same experience or that you're going to have awareness of that experience on other levels.

ALICE: Yeah, but then, what he said is that if you can't learn anything down here until you learn it in the laboratory, but you can't learn anything in the laboratory until you learn down here, so that's confusing though.

THERRY: No. In order to have a learning process, you must have communication across a barrier. Therefore, if you have an experience upon a higher level, but you do not have a awareness of that experience on this level, then you don't learn on this level.

ALICE: Oh, okay. So you're saying that with time, it'll trickledown and then you can...So you still keep on having recurring dreams until you become conscious of what you're dreaming about and then you can learn about it?

THERRY: Depends on the individual's karma.

ALICE: Oh, okay. Can you explain the distinction between the state of love and the emotion of love?

THERRY: The condition of love is a bonding which is based on mutual satisfaction of needs. The state of love is unconditional and it doesn't come from the Earth experience. The state of love is more spiritual in nature. The condition of love depends on the situation, the time, the place and the purpose.

ALICE: Now, how does this relate to the union then? Is the union the condition of love?

THERRY: Usually, yeah.

ALICE: Usually?

THERRY: Right.

ALICE: Oh I thought of it as mostly spiritual though.

THERRY: Well, there are levels of spirituality, the same way there are levels of everything else. Even though something may be carnal in nature, if it is on the highest aspect on carnal nature, it's perceived of as spirituality, but if it's on the lower aspect of carnal behavior, then it's simply perceived as getting your rocks off.

JOANA: What is the union? Is that what you said, the union?

THERRY: Yes. For instance, there was a union in order for man to come to Earth.

JOANA: So, its sexual, is that what it means? ...or does it mean...

THERRY: No, it doesn't have to be limited to the sexual. It's the interaction of the three levels -- cognitive, effective and psychomotor for both parties. It's called the union.

ALICE: But I thought that it was kinda special, though.

THERRY: It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

DONNA: It's something that I have only really experienced when I was conscious.

THERRY: That indicates that it is [the state of love], but if it is towards any specific individual [it's not].

DONNA: It doesn't leave my brain...

THERRY: Okay, then it's the state of love.

JOANA: Okay.

DONNA: It doesn't come to Earth?

THERRY: No, the closest you can feel it on Earth is the mutual satisfaction of needs.

DONNA: Is that why we go through all of this in relationships?

THERRY: Yes. Yeah.

ALICE: Then how does the union relate to true love?

THERRY: See the union is the closest that you can come to true love on carnal nature.

ALICE: Okay.

THERRY: So long as you're on the physical, the union is the closest to love.

ALICE: Can you repeat the definition of union again?

THERRY: Well, the union is when two bodies unite, mind, body and soul to create a channel for another individual to come to Earth.

ALICE: Oh, okay.

THERRY: Everything else is just getting your rocks off with a slingshot sometimes.

ALICE: Uh-hmmm. If you're spiritual...or if you're perfectly spiritual, which most people aren't...

THERRY: No such thing. If you're perfect anything, you're not on the Planet Earth.

ALICE: So if you're on the highest level, like the 143^rd level, you're still not perfect?

THERRY: Are you still on Planet Earth?

ALICE: Sure.

THERRY: If you are, then you're not perfect.

ALICE: Oh, okay.

THERRY: There is no such thing as perfection on Earth.

ALICE: Okay.

THERRY: Even the concept of perfection is imperfect.

ALICE: Hmmm. So no-one on the Planet Earth can experience the state of love then?

THERRY: No, not while you're on the Planet Earth. You can...your nature, let's say of spirituality, can be in an alter-reality and experience the state of love. But it is only part of you that is doing it.

ALICE: But if you're following the Arkashean way of life, you're approaching the state of love, right?

THERRY: It's like a butterfly, the more you chase it, the further away it goes. In order to experience the state of love, you have to be quiet. You can't chase it, you just have to be and it will find you. So long as you chase it, however close you get, it's always on the next bend or on the next set of experiences or on the next person.

ALICE: But you don't have to apply some effort to be spiritual every moment though?

THERRY: What does that got to do with love?

ALICE: I think it's all related.

THERRY: Didn't you just change the subject on me.

ALICE: Okay.

THERRY: You can chase spirituality, you can chase it till the cows come home and quite often get it, but I don't see how that applies to love.

ALICE: I thought that there's a connection between the state of love and spirituality?

THERRY: That doesn't change the fact that they are two separate phenomenon.

ALICE: Okay, so what is the connection between the state of love and spirituality?

THERRY: Spirituality is a type of commitment that you make where you have agreed to limit the carnal nature to a varying degree. The state of love is the reward that you get for having done that.

ALICE: Okay. Hmmm.

DONNA: So is being human practice?

THERRY: Yeah.

QWA: You're practicing, you're trying to put into effect a way that you don't know about?

THERRY: Yes.

JOANA: So it leaves you other things.

THERRY: Yes. Being human is not a means and a cause unto itself. It's simply one step along the line, however long that line is, towards, for the lack of a better word, perfection. Let's say that we're all in a classroom, learning to become Gods. Now, all we have to do is find some sucker who'll believe in us. (Laughter)

On this Planet, many people succeed. There's a lot of charlatans out there. Anytime, you come across somebody who starts out with, "Believe me," you should beware. Another good one, "Trust me!" "Su-r-r-e!" He definitely ain't playing with a full deck.

JOANA: So if there's something that they want from you, you know exactly what it is.

THERRY: Yep. It's either you money or your mind. Sometimes both.

JOANA: I've only got one to worry about.

THERRY: (Laughter)

JOANA: If somebody wants one of those things, as ludicrous as it may seem, they'll go a long ways to get it! Hey, Therry, if somebody wants the answer to something, whatever it need be, from gardening, to theater, to poetry to whatever, even if it is from their own experience. Well, sometimes you can smell it, the right times, depending on what the situation is, you can tell someone the truth to a question if they ask you. Specifically, you know, and they will...

THERRY: Slosh it off.

JOANA: No, they can't...if we're talking about a situation when someone wants to know something so they can use it for their own ends, it still won't work when they use it for their own ends from I've noticed.

THERRY: Correct.

JOANA: It'll all be...you know [blocked].

THERRY: Correct. They're guards.

JOANA: So, it's okay to tell people [answers to their questions]?

THERRY: Not all the time. We should never burst a person's illusions.

JOANA: You cover it up. So if they're only doing that to get things from you, [or hear themselves] otherwise, you're getting [a raw deal]...I don't know about this. It's politics.

THERRY: Right.

JOANA: 'Cause if they really wanted to hear the real truth, they would hear it.

THERRY: They probably wouldn't come to you. If they'd want to hear the real truth, they'd mean it and find the truth there.

ALICE: So if you see someone...

JOANA: You mean in terms of your own work?

THERRY: Yeah.

JOANA: Or you'd tell them and they'd say, "Yes." They would see it and...I've had people...

THERRY: That's not how you give them the truth. See the process there is that they'll ask you an "if" type question, like "Am I good here?" and then you could say, "Yeah." And then they'd take that and they'd take it inward and they'd evaluate it, and if they don't believe that you told them that they're good, they'd get their answer from inside.

JOANA: Right. So if they came back and started acting this way about it, [like] "So I want to work on this, or I want to work this," you can tell them.

THERRY: Yes. But you can only tell them in response to...

JOANA: What they want to hear.

THERRY: And you can only tell them in response to a question that they have asked. And you have to limit yourself to that question. Right. You can't get on your soapbox and start preaching just because somebody else has started preaching, just because somebody asks, "What time is it?" It doesn't mean that they want to know all about your life. You simply answer the question and nothing more.

JOANA: 'Cause that's all they asked.

THERRY: 'Cause that's all they're ready for.

ALICE: But sometimes when they ask, they really don't want to hear anyway, though.

THERRY: Correct.

ALICE: So consider that in when you use your judgment about answering people's questions?

THERRY: Stick to the question, right.

ALICE: Oh, okay.

THERRY: That's like when a child asks, where do I come from? Tell him Chicago, don't get into sex.

ALICE: You think so?

THERRY: Yeah.

ALICE: Up till what age though?

THERRY: It'd be terrible if he comes from New York. (Laughter)

ALICE: (Laughter) Oh, gosh!

THERRY: The thing here is, obviously you have to use your head when you're answering somebody else's questions.

ALICE: Yeah, yeah. Right.

JOANA: It'd be different with another type of information though.

THERRY: No, it's the same.

JOANA: It's the same?

THERRY: The bonding that you have between two people does not change the cause of the communication.

SAM: No, it doesn't?

THERRY: They are still them and you are still you. They still have their own levels of knowledge, wisdom, expectations and demands and you still have yours. They are still them, you are still you, she is still her, it is still it. The barriers between you two have not been removed, so you're not one, so therefore, the laws of communication still exist.

JOANA: No matter what the situation... And no matter how close you are to someone, or whatever, and if they ask you one question, you answer that thing.

THERRY: Right.

JOANA: And you can only answer from what you're thinking at the moment?

THERRY: No. That's the mark of being trapped. If you answer the question that they've asked, depending on the question, the first level of truth is to get yourself out of the way, and then answer the question from that level. Then the second level of truth is to answer the question from the basis of how you're feeling for the moment, which is okay, providing you let the person know that this is the way for the moment.

JOANA: It's this way for the moment. I understand. Well, that makes things much better though.

THERRY: Correct. But it doesn't fulfill the other people's demands and can create problems, especially if the question is, "Do you love me?" "I haven't had enough sex, of course, I love you, stupid." But will I love you tomorrow? Likewise, "Do you love me?" "Hey, remember the..., you support me. Of course, I love you!" When I'm all alone, I'm supporting myself and I don't need you anymore, maybe something will be different. Levels of truth in communication.

JOANA: I don't like asking these questions!

THERRY: [Laughter] Just because we don't like the truth of it, doesn't change the fact that it is. And it is still levels of communication. Just because somebody asks a question, there's no law that says you can't lie.

DONNA: But why should you lie? Why should you lie?

THERRY: No. The original question was levels of truth. Just because there is a fake bond with somebody, that doesn't mean that you should be totally honest. That'd be stupid in many circumstances. Absolute honesty can create a hell of a lot of pain.

ALICE: Well, I don't understand that...

THERRY: But that doesn't mean that you should make a practice of deceiving [people]. You have to take into account of levels 'cause there are levels of truth. An omission can still be a truth on its respective level.

JOANA: Omission can be truth how?

THERRY: On its respective level.

JOANA: Can it be...

THERRY: If somebody is sitting there and they have a spot on their arm and you recognize it as cancer and they say, "What's this?" you really don't have to tell them that they're going to die of cancer, they're going to rot away and they're going to be in a hole. I mean its stupid to tell them that. Just say, "It looks like it's a mark." Hey, you've omitted telling them the truth, but it was a fact, [and] you were still truthful on its respective level.

JOANA: Right. But that's that...alright, fine. Well, somebody's got to tell the truth [that way] you would both know what the other person is saying.

THERRY: Yes. But that's beside the point. That's levels of communication, not levels of truth.

ALICE: So, you're saying that it's okay to lie as long as you're...

THERRY: No, I'm not saying it's okay to lie. Lying by definition means that you specifically have the intention of doing harm.

ALICE: Oh, okay. So...

THERRY: All I'm saying is that, there are levels of truth and it depends on the situation.

ALICE: So, when you first told me that I have a problem with my levels of truth, is that...

THERRY: You negotiate too much.

ALICE: Negotiate!

THERRY: Yeah.

ALICE: You think so?

THERRY: Yeah.

ALICE: But what does that mean though. Is "compromising" the same thing?

THERRY: Well, I use a different word rather than "compromise."

ALICE: Negotiating?

THERRY: Yeah. Trade-off.

ALICE: Trade-off?

THERRY: Sometimes a special set of circumstances are okay, but then when it comes to another set of circumstances which the same as the first but it works against something that you want, then suddenly it ain't okay anymore.

ALICE: Oh, okay.

THERRY: You change your definitions to suit your purpose.

ALICE: Oh, okay.

THERRY: I call that negotiating.

ALICE: Oh. So, if I respect the same definition to all things, then I'd be in better off shape then?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: In terms of levels of truth then?

THERRY: In terms of levels of understanding too.

ALICE: Understanding?

THERRY: You know, when you change your definitions so often to suit your purpose, then it's easy to become bemused, and then get yourself caught in a state that you've forgotten what the real truth is.

ALICE: Alright. Okay. Hmmm. I notice that sometimes I try to make logic out of things, like analyze things to fit a certain answer or something like that? Is that the same thing as negotiating with truth?

THERRY: Yeah, yeah. You take something and sort of bend it until it's what you want. I won't say that you lie, you just bend the truth a little until it fits you.

ALICE: So how do I discern what is the truth then if I tend to do that a lot?

THERRY: Learn not to do it. Well, that I can't tell you, because everybody's different.

ALICE: I guess, I think we talked about inner truth last time and I wanted to know if there was anything more that I should know about it and if you can tell me differently. There is this one incident that happened, when I started seeing a shrink or just one person that I had a confrontation with and he kind of tricked me into looking at a list of things and telling me what my thoughts were about it on a range of being truthful or whatever and when I looked at the top of it, the heading was levels of distorted thinking and I was like, "Oh, my gosh!" Does that mean that my thinking is like totally distorted!" So that made me really insecure about how, you know, I could even do about my thinking process truthfully, you know.

THERRY: You can't pay close attention to that stuff.

ALICE: No? Why?

THERRY: 'Cause they have their own labels for many things.

ALICE: Right, oh, okay. So that's just like...

THERRY: You got to remember that you're talking about a baby science and they're many crackpots in it. They make things up as they go along.

ALICE: Right. But I've come upon some things that you had mentioned to me about my levels of assumptions and I know that I was assuming certain things.

THERRY: It doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't put too much emphasis on the labels that you use.

ALICE: So if you start seeing a shrink and they're certain problems, then how...I mean what other things can you kind of disregard then? I mean, how are you able to get some value out of them and still kind of disregard some things, you know?

THERRY: By being as honest as you can with yourself and don't borrow trouble. I mean if he says, just pick a word on this list, and just because the list's titled "Levels of Crazy" well, that doesn't mean that you're crazy!

ALICE: Yeah.

THERRY: I mean, it's his label, not yours.

ALICE: Yeah, okay. Uh-hmmm. Oh, yeah, with the inner truth thing, when I started seeing another woman psychologist, I mentioned to her that I was really concerned about my levels of inner truth, of honesty and stuff and of course, she didn't know what I was getting at. She kept on hearing me repeat those things and she said, "Oh, you don't have a problem at all." And I was like, how can I get two different things from two different people and still value what the two different people say as well, you know?

THERRY: Remember, you're talking about a baby science!

ALICE: Baby science, okay.

THERRY: {With] psychiatrists, just because they have a shingle on their wall, doesn't mean make them perfect! Take it with a grain of salt. Each individual has their own perspective, their own way of looking at things and their own way of doing things.

ALICE: So then what's the value of going to a shrink at all then?

THERRY: Because they at least have sufficient education to guide you and possibly see things in a different way, and that gives you another way of looking at something.

ALICE: Right. So otherwise if I just relied on myself then, it'd be a question of waiting forever or a longer period of time because I won't see things objectively or what?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: Oh. But in any case, you won't see what you don't want to see anyway.

THERRY: That's true.

ALICE: So I guess it's just me being open enough to see what the other person is, I guess seeing. Now I know that I'm totally playing games when it comes to this career bit and...

THERRY: If you play games, you're going to pay for it.

ALICE: Yeah?

THERRY: Nothing is for free.

ALICE: Well, I guess what it is that...I know that I'm going to pursue it, it's just times that sometimes I get really scared just because...

THERRY: Everybody gets scared.

ALICE: Yeah.

THERRY: So you're not alone there. That's part of why the world is screwed up.

ALICE: Yeah. Yeah, but...oh, okay. I mean but in terms of doing the paralegal things as opposed to going back to urban planning and everything, one of the main things is money and of course, when I thought about it, I said, okay, maybe that's a game too, so I can maybe accept that, but the money thing is like a big issue, especially in terms of paying school loans and stuff.

THERRY: You do what you've got to do in order to take care of your needs and then worry about it afterwards.

ALICE: Don't worry about the decision?

THERRY: Yeah.

ALICE: Yeah. Also I just feel insecure about my ability to do law school, sometimes I feel like, "Okay, Gege, you can do that," but it's like my process of making any logic is so ridiculous sometimes" because I don't think things through enough, I don't ask questions enough and then I think "What kind of lawyer am I going to make?" You know what I'm saying? I mean these kinds of things are basics of thinking and communication!

THERRY: You'll learn, you'll learn.

ALICE: Like in law school, in the process?

THERRY: In the process.

ALICE: So is that a question of like, discipline or something?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: But with other people it comes more naturally though?

THERRY: From their point of view.

ALICE: Alright. So that's a question of honing different skills? For example, there are some things that I won't be able to put my finger on that have been honed in my upbringing, okay, and maybe other things that throughout my years twenty through thirty that I've learnt through experience and I guess I've tried to develop, so I guess this is the same thing too, right?

THERRY: Yes.

ALICE: And other things that I've ignored. Uh-hmmm. It just seems so stupid, like...

THERRY: Nobody's perfect.

ALICE: Uh-hmmm...

THERRY: We don't always think sharply, sometimes we make errors. That's the nature of humanity.

ALICE: Uh-hmmm. Okay. I guess it's just a question of being disciplined as far as learning...I mean, I do notice that when I put more energy into things, like when I did start applying more energy to looking for the paralegal things and just kept at it, that things started falling in place, you know, but I guess oftentimes I'm really lazy and I don't follow through on things.. What confused me is that I felt that I would have to quit being artistic then.

THERRY: The term artistic is a catch-all phrase.

ALICE: It doesn't mean anything:

THERRY: In and of itself, it doesn't mean anything at all.

ALICE: Oh, okay. Well, now I think I've kind of reconciled the problem of whether I should just drop whatever I'm doing video-wise, and just pursue the paralegal thing alone. I decided to enjoy both.

THERRY: You've got to decide that yourself.

ALICE: Oh, I know that. I've decided and I'm enjoying that and just, you know, letting whatever happens, and in the meantime, the paralegal thing will give me money, which I need anyway, so it's no big deal and I'll able to indulge my artistic side.