Arkashean Q&A Session -- 025

TINA: When you're dealing with a specific pattern, are there an infinite number of things?

THERRY: No, there's only one.

TINA: There's only one? One game?

THERRY: There's only one game and one game alone.

TINA: Can the games change, if not the pattern?

THERRY: Yes, but each game is made up of a preset number of patterns. And it doesn't matter who plays the game, they will all play that preset number of patterns. For instance, the game of friendship is made up of a select number of patterns and it doesn't matter who plays that game, they all use the same set patterns.

TINA: You mean, be friendly, be nice, kind of thing?

THERRY: Right, right. And if you understand all of the patterns and which patterns are used in each game, then you can pretty well control the future as well as your own life and to a great degree control another person's life as well, although the laws of Karma usually frown upon that. It's like looking at a movie that you've seen before. You know it's coming because you recognize certain signs and you know what's going to come next. That's what it's like when you know the patterns. It's a super "vision."

LOUISE: When you said "people following life patterns," is that the same thing?

THERRY: A life's pattern [with the] possessive case, that's different from a pattern.

LOUISE: So that can change then?

THERRY: Yeah from life to life it changes. Because all you're talking about is a selection of games, roles, experiences the individual chooses to use as a tool to equalize the Karma within it's special life. That can change anytime. But once chosen and the Illusion is created and then once you descend into that Illusion, now you can't change any more because the boundaries of the Illusion will stop you.

LOUISE: You mean you become convinced that you can't change?

THERRY: Right. You argue for your limitations as you create your illusions.

LOUISE: Can outside people help you change?

THERRY: Yes. But they're limited to offering you information, nothing more and as a saying I once heard, "Just because you have a brain, doesn't mean that you're going to use it."

LOUISE: Is it advisable to try to get someone to change?.

THERRY: Well, now, you're talking about another pattern -- it's called preachers. With all the preachers that existed on the planet over the eons, if it were possible for somebody else to make, force or help somebody else change just by copycatting them, seems to me change would've already [happened].

TINA: So I shouldn't try to do that then?

THERRY: It's not a case of you shouldn't try, it's just that if you hope to aid someone, you have to first be aware of that someone's position in life and that person's set patterns that they're following. If an individual is on a preset path, you don't know how much of that is freewill and how much of that is Karma, Predestiny. Now if a person is on a path because of Predestiny, then it doesn't much matter what you do, they themselves just aren't going to change.

LOUISE: How can you know?

THERRY: Well, you yourself will never know because you yourself don't have the power of going into their mind. But if you gain the ability, then you can run with it. There are very, very, very few people on this planet who have that ability, very few. You usually have to give up life in order to gain that. You have to be amongst but not of the level.

LOUISE: So you just stand by and watch?

THERRY: Who're you speaking of now?

LOUISE: I'm speaking of my younger sister. She's following in the footpaths of Paulina.

THERRY: Yes and there's nothing that you can do. Nothing.

LOUISE: (Laugh) Oh God! Don't say that!

THERRY: Someone saying that or not saying it is not going to change reality.

LOUISE: I shouldn't even try to talking to her, find out what she's thinking?

THERRY: Okay, but you have to do it under very special sets of circumstances. If you come on like gangbusters, thinking you're going to change the world and get the sorrow, hey, the only one that you're playing with is yourself. So if you're going to aid anybody, you first have to respect the game that they chose to play. If their game is such that, "Hey, I've got my mind made up, don't confuse the facts!" Then you're wasting your time. The more you say, the more of an enemy [you become] and you're only going to drive her towards what she's already doing, the more you try to stop her. If you want to or if you expect to help anyone, you have to be quiet and keep your mouth shut, and mind your own business. Let them come to you and then be there with everything you have. Let them know that you care. Don't preach at them. Let them know that you understand, but don't contradict them. Let them know that you love them, but there is no way that they will be able to use that love as a weapon against you. And when they walk away, let them. Don't run after them. If they are already preset to commit certain behaviors, then you might as well mind your own business, because you're only going to commit more harm. If they are preset to learn by you not forcing judgment on them, they will automatically be drawn to you for information or aid. The best aid that you can give anybody is to be there through understanding, forgiveness and love. Don't think that your experiences, if she learns about them, is suddenly going to light a light in their heads and suddenly they're going to become, "Oh, I see!" That's bull! The more you shove your experiences on them, the more frustrated they become, the more resentful they feel and the more they will be driven to whatever drives them. Now, not only your sisters but you as well, play a game whose primary basis is "How dare you! I'm angry at you and I'm going to make you pay."

TINA: Well, you can carry that all so far until it's through.

THERRY: Because the only one that ends up paying is the one that plays the game.

LOUISE: Well, other people too.

THERRY: No. The other people pay simply because they chose to. There is no-one on this planet who can affect you except you. You can allow the behaviors, the words of others to serve as a focal point for you to do many strange things to yourself. But you can't blame them because it is you who has done it to yourself. It is you who have manipulated your emotions to feel bad because somebody else stubbed their toe. It is you who have gone into the big guilt complex because somebody else is being self-destructive and you're saying, "Well, maybe I could've helped!" Well, you might as well say in the same breath, maybe if I take him off the cross and put myself there, the world would be better. You just don't achieve exactly the same thing. The only one that is in control of you is you. The only one that is in control of her is her. Whatever pattern she chooses to play, the best that you can do for her is to show her that you love her, that you understand, that you want to help, but mind your own business and the rest will be her own Karma and her own choices.

LOUISE: Would trying to help her get out of her living situation be trying to push her a little bit too much?

THERRY: No. The only thing that is going to achieve is a dependency and the very minute that you move to living your life instead of paying attention to hers, the resentment is going to flare. It will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. "See, I told you, nobody cares for me! Nobody! You don't care about me, you just live your life!" And she'll be back doing what she wants to do anyway. It is a foolish game to play guilt.

GEINA: Speaking of patterns, can I ask a question of a discussion we once had about patterns?

THERRY: I don't know, can you?

GEINA: It's because you said one game applies to one pattern or a pattern is specific to one game.

THERRY: Yes. No, no, no. Games are made up of many patterns.

GEINA: Games are made up of...? See, I've got a confusion because we were talking about the pattern of dealing with the game of courtship, of courting.

THERRY: Okay, there's only one pattern to that.

GEINA: I have a pattern to that that says some individual will present himself before you in some way for acceptance for future behavior or rejection.


GEINA: Now, I would think that within that pattern there'd be many games.

THERRY: Many happenings and many games.

GEINA: So there are more than...I mean for that pattern there are many games.

THERRY: No, that specific pattern called friendship, there's only one pattern.

GEINA: Oh, this, the one you were talking about. See I thought you said...

THERRY: I have a billion of can chose, say like say, the pattern called friendship, there's only one. The pattern called anger, there's only one.

GEINA: I thought this was the pattern called courtship?

THERRY: There's only one. There are many outcomes to the game of courtship, but the pattern courtship there's only one.

GEINA: Okay, there's only one pattern of courtship, yet within that pattern of courtship, there are many games that can be applied.

THERRY: Many outcomes, yeah.

GEINA: See, there was that confusion...

THERRY: Because you can pair it with many...

GEINA: You said that one game per pattern.


GEINA: 'Cause I said, would there be an infinite number of games within one pattern and you said, "No."

THERRY: No. A game, you can have as many as a hundred and forty four patterns all at work in one game.
GEINA: Now what about the reverse? Can you have one pattern and that pattern...

THERRY: And a hundred and forty four games? No.

GEINA: See, I'm confused. I see a general pattern and then I see each individual choosing a different game, using that pattern but playing a different game within that pattern.

THERRY: Okay, but you have to bear in mind that while...see, we have a confusion because of duplication of terms. Let's say the game called friendship is one pattern. If you mix that or gang it with another game called "love" or "lover," you mix the two together then the two as a pairing becomes another pattern which is unique unto itself and there's only one of them. So the more different patterns that you meld together, the creation of one is in itself the implication of another. It becomes a new pattern and there's only one of them.

GEINA: Now, we were talking very specifically. I remember the conversation. It was had to do with courtship and how to understand say why men and women do what they do with each other.

THERRY: Yes, I believe during that discussion we went down the line about that one pattern and I gave you all of it.

GEINA: And I think my confusion lies in ...I thought for instance the pattern of courtship you'd have...if you just take one individual, what is his, what is the game he chooses to play within this pattern. Another individual, what is the game she chooses to play within this pattern.

THERRY: Okay, I see your error. Your error lies in, if you chose one basic pattern that is reduced to its lowest terms, you have a royal steering current. If you take two patterns which are itself reduced to their lowest terms such as the friendship pattern and the lover pattern, you drop them down a level, because it is a compound pattern rather than a single pattern. And the more that you add, the more levels you drop down.

GEINA: And those become specific?

THERRY: They become very specific but they're compound.

GEINA: Well, I was dealing with the overall ...

THERRY: The biggie, the single reduced pattern. It's called friendship or called lover or whatever game it is. It is a single pattern, not a compound. That's what we were discussing and that's the laws that I gave you. Obviously, in order to have more than one outcome, you have to go into compounds because if you're playing the friendship [game] and he's playing the lover you have two mixed together -- compounds.

GEINA: So compounds of patterns, not compounds of games?

THERRY: Right.

GEINA: And each compound of patterns is a new game?

THERRY: That is correct, because you have a brand new reality situation.

GEINA: And there can be one game with that one pattern.

THERRY: Right.

GEINA: So they're sort of intermingled throughout?

THERRY: Yes, the fabric.

GEINA: 'Cause I sort of thought that it was some sort of a tree, where it branches off, and branches off and branches off.

THERRY: It is.

GEINA: One source.

THERRY: Just within each individual you can have more than one pattern at work. Because he can play the "I love myself game." He can also play the "What's the matter with me game?"

GEINA: If say, for instance, a woman walks down the street...I'm only remembering this because this is what started the conversation. Three men make whistles and comments at her. Those three men are doing the same exact behavior, they have three games possibly, right, depending on what is going on, what they intended?

THERRY: Yes, one can be just machismo at work whereas he's displaying for others to see because of what he fears within himself. Another could be looking at her and saying, "Boy, I'd like to take a bite out of that!"

GEINA: Another could be, "Real neat, maybe I could get a relationship out of this or something!

THERRY: Right.

GEINA: Now, so they're not dealing with one pattern? Each...

THERRY: Right, each has its own.

GEINA: It's a compound pattern from an overall generalized [standpoint]...?

THERRY: Right, which is governed by the reality that they're on. But if you understand the unitary patterns, then you can see how they meld and if I remember correctly as I said, I think I gave you all the multiple levels of that one pattern. There was what? About six or seven levels to that one pattern.

DALE: So it would be like playing monopoly which is one game and then throwing poker which is another game and coming up with a new game which is a combination of poker and monopoly?

THERRY: Well, that wouldn't be the best way to explain it, but that would be a way to explain it. The easiest way to explain it would but they both say, "Let's just be friends," but the other person hasn't and says, "I'll change it, hah!"

GEINA: (Laugh)

THERRY: "I'm going to get that person before I go home. I ain't going to spend that nighttime alone!" But yet outwardly the other one's saying, "Yeah, let's just be friends!" So they enter a relationship where one person's [feelings are] strictly platonic, the other person's trying to make it romantic and then as different situations come around they go bantering back and forth.

JOE: So when each of those people are playing different games it's always a complex game.

THERRY: Yes, and the end result can usually be termed with one word, "Pain."

CORA: Is that deception if one person has a different conception of the relationship than the first? (Inaudible)

THERRY: On one level yes, but [you have to] take into account that the norm on some levels is the exception than not. If you take into account that certain numbers of the species have a preponderance for certain types of behaviors, that's just expect that from that ethnic group, or from that background or something like that, then when they in fact live up to their expectation, then it's not deception.

BETTY: But that's not [good]!

THERRY: You may not like it, but that's the law. If you know ahead of time that John Blake is a liar, if you know ahead of time that John Blake wouldn't know the truth if it walked up to him and slapped him in the face, then if you decide to go up to John Blake and say, "Hey, where's New York?" and he points you to California, he's not being deceptive, he's being true to his nature.

BETTY: Yeah, but then, you're using an ethnic group [thing].

THERRY: Well, it doesn't matter, you can choose any ethnic group, it's still the same thing.


THERRY: So therefore if they in fact prove that it's my behavior, they're not being accepted, they're just following their nature. Let the ethnic group be called a cab. It might be a different form of life, but it's still an ethnic group. Okay? They maybe having all the appearance of playing with a mouse, the first thing you know, that mouse might end up being a good meal. Well, just because that cat was playing with that mouse, he wasn't being deceptive, he was just being his nature. It doesn't matter if that cat plays with that mouse for ten minutes or all day. You know ahead of time and that's his meal, so he likes playing. He's not being deceptive just because he appears to be playing. Remember the question was, "When you do something that you know ahead of time, is that deception?"

BETTY: He's being more [deceptive than last time.]

THERRY: No, he's not. The mouse knows damned well he's going to be eaten. That's why the mouse is trying to run away. Any life form who is in fact living up to his own image or his own nature is not being deceptive. It may be difficult to accept and it may be difficult to understand, but it's still not deception.

BETTY: How's does...

THERRY: See, the term "deceptive" by the terms of the English language is very specific. It states that one life form is in fact trying to devalue another's intent. That's deception. That's like if both of us were human and I say, "I'm in tonight," said the fly to the spider and you're like, "Oo-h, I'm going to have some fun tonight." And I come in and say, "Would you move this furniture over there? How about fixing my window. " Obviously, I was deceiving you because I promised you one thing but I delivered something else. I think in life, in life the basic law of what they say is, promise them anything, but they still won't do what you want anyway. I think a perfume companies do that same thing when they say, "Promise her the world, give her Arpege."

BETTY: Oh no! (Laugh)

THERRY: That's deception. When you're trying to understand things, you make an error if you don't severely limit yourself to the usage of the language that you're using.

BETTY: Yeah.

THERRY: Because cross communications is very unique and there's nothing that will confuse you better when you're trying to read patterns as mislabeling patterns. She laughed because that was a laugh of recognition. Difficult, all of it. (Inaudible)

BETTY: Is it possible to be so [confused]?

THERRY: On the average individual, if you put one hundred people in the room, you'd have two hundred confused people. (Laughter) And out of that, if you trim it down and if you have three people in the room, you'd have twelve different concepts. Does that answer your question?

BETTY: Yeah, I was just thinking that how can you really deceive yourself when you're really supposed to know what's going on? Is that different?

THERRY: That's simple, let me go inside your mind for a bit.



THERRY: Okay, think back. A little while back, you wanted something! You wanted it! But when you had it, you didn't want it. You were deceiving yourself, because if you'd really wanted it, you'd have wanted it when you got it, you'd be satisfied. But instead of being satisfied, you became irritated.

BETTY: It what?

THERRY: Irritated me? It was in the evening.

BETTY: Oh, no! (Laughter)

THERRY: Does it bring it to mind?

BETTY: Yeah.

THERRY: That's how a person deceives himself.

BETTY: Yeah.

CORA: Does it become deception when you change your mind?

THERRY: That's not deception when you change your mind but you have to accept that you wanted it first. You can't change your mind until first you've decided that you wanted it. (Laugh)

BETTY: Oh, God! Oh God, it's like. Oh you're kidding. Oh god! Oh no!


JOHN: The penny drops. Oh come on, give us the [story].

THERRY: No, no.

JOHN: Judy, I think you just completed the "repetition" correctly. [Repetition is Sanford Meisner's acting methodology].

BETTY: Oh really? [There was] a big delay.

JOHN: You just got the other half of the repetition.

THERRY: Of course, I'm cheating because normally I don't show people my powers. Normally, I just...

CORA: What do you mean that you must first accept it?

THERRY: Well, the communication was first for her, not all of you. It wasn't a fluke that she alone could hear. Now, let's go back to you. Let us assume that you decide, I want X. But inside you say, I don't care, I want X. Then X comes around and you decide "I really don't want X, I want Y. I don't know why I've been looking for X, I never really wanted it." All that time, you've been deceiving yourself. 'Cause if it were a change of mind, you would have accepted the fact that X would've fulfilled you and then you said, "Okay, now that I have X, I don't want X, I want to try Y." One is called having variety as the spice of life, and the other is called, not knowing what the fuck you [want]. See, if there is deception, there is never satisfaction. If there is no deception, there is a constant want for variety. Can you see the difference?

CORA: Not completely. I kind of see a difference but not completely.

THERRY: Okay, let me go deeper then. I'm going to have to bring things out in the open that...[are private].

CORA: Oh, I don't care.

THERRY: Let me see if I can talk such that only you will understand. Being caught between two worlds, seeking of one, you deceive yourself into thinking that you will lose not. But the loss will be great because the chain is there. The sources of power will diminish and you will sit confused, why has it been so long, but all along, the inner self thoughts saying, I can't serve two, therefore there's no way I could've had both. Satisfied?


THERRY: But that [addresses it] because that was the question. Okay?

JACK: Isn't it the normal pattern at least to [hide from] your desires.

THERRY: Oh yeah, yeah.

JACK: So if that's the normal pattern without deception, how do they differ if the end result is the same in their [being] unsatisfied?

THERRY: The difference being that on the one end people can want something and then later on recognize that is not what I thought it would be and then change their mind. But it doesn't mean how much they change their mind, I can't stop it. That's the cry to want to be free from their desires. Like the alcoholic who can't stop the shakes. It doesn't matter what he tries, he can't stop that willful power. The game is in control. So that's not deception, but it's the recognition of a trap. But the level of the trap is still trying to free from your own desires. Because he is still trying to drink, he has no other mode, but he still wishes he did not. That's a painful pattern.

JACK: Wouldn't that be one of man's Royal Steering Currents as far as...

THERRY: Wanting to be free?


THERRY: You mean addiction?

JACK: No, the whole getting into Maya and having to live under that pattern of wanting to be free?

THERRY: Yeah, that's addiction.

JACK: Would that be a Royal Steering Current?

THERRY: Yeah, royal on earth anyway. I mean, it sounds funny to say that life is addictive, but it is.

JACK: Is it possible to tear away the illusions of reality and still not totally go insane?


JACK: Even momentarily?

THERRY: No. It's impossible.

JACK: So, once you're down...

THERRY: The only way you can do that is if you yourself have the training to do that because what is required, the way the pattern of mind is, it must have a stable reference point. The reference point can come from any level, but it must have a stable reference point. But if you rip away the predicate of reality and leave him with no reference points, [POP!]

JACK: But what if you go into a meditation and you're feeling the oneness of God or the Universe, whatever you consider it to be...

THERRY: But that's not ripping away the pattern.

JACK: But all the petty games that one would play in this Illusion seem to fade for that moment.

THERRY: But that's not ripping away your stable point. It's still the illusion.

JOE: Ripping them away would be no longer having to live here.

THERRY: Right. Life would just not exist and they don't know which is what. There's no continuity.

JACK: Say for people...what are people that go insane? Have they in effect done something to that?

THERRY: Not necessarily. There are about to my knowledge anyway, from the level that I'm on, I recognize about 3,000 different ways to go insane.

JACK: Someone was talking about that and I said that you couldn't do it and have it just ripped away like that, [where you'd] make up a system, but it could be done.

THERRY: Oh, it can be done. But you'd have to go insane before it happens.

CORA: (Inaudible)

THERRY: Yeah, many people get their realities ripped away from them. Many people.

CORA: How does that happen?

THERRY: Trauma.

CORA: They have no reference points to [rely] on?

THERRY: That's the pattern [at least].

JACK: You want your food? You want your food? [Speaking to Sam].

THERRY: [Speaking of toddler, Sam] He couldn't even sit up, now could he, because there isn't that much support. You can't look at a wall and recognize that it's a wall. You have no language. There's absolutely no language. Zilch! There is no recognition of anything that you've seen. Thus when you're at that stage, you see into multitudinous levels because there are no boundaries, no limitations.

CORA: Now, I've seen people where I've worked in [the hospital's] Psyche [Department], and so I kept seeing people with no borders, but they usually seem to be locked in a different reality than from the common reality but it's still a reality that has labels that could be a wall, a veil or something. They may just not call it a wall.

THERRY: That's simply one of the three types of [borders], but they didn't have reality itself coming from them, they simply had this reality's borders (inaudible). Go ahead.

JIM: [So how many realities can there be?]

THERRY: Oh, there are many. In any normal living situation, man lives in four sets of realities.

LOUISE: What are the four?

THERRY: Well, the basic three are: cognitive, effective and psychomotor and the fourth is a compound of the occult alter-realities.

LOUISE: Cognitive, effective and [what]?

THERRY: Psychomotor.

LOUISE: Psychomotor?

JOE: What's the effective?

THERRY: The effective is the emotions.

TINA: [What'd he say?]

THERRY: He asked, "What is the effective?" That is the realm, the world of emotions.

TINA: What is the last one?

THERRY: It is a compound of alter-realities, the psychic, the occult, [and] the spiritual.

LOUISE: What is psychomotor?

THERRY: Psychomotor is the world of physical behaviors.

JOE: Cognitive would be the awareness factor?

THERRY: The awareness factor, your limitations of what you see, think and feel, in terms of recognition.

BETTY: What's the fourth?

THERRY: What was the what?

BETTY: What was the fourth?

THERRY: Psychic.


THERRY: But it's a compound.

BETTY: But they can be all there? It doesn't have any reference to any of those laws?


BETTY: Yeah?

THERRY: There are a hundred and forty four dimensions in terms of a reality.

JOE: I have a question.


JOE: Can you explain what a dimension is in terms of a hundred and forty four dimensions?

THERRY: Okay, we are limited in the dimension of carbon. This entire dimension is carbon-based. Almost everything that exists in this dimension, the prime building block is carbon-based.

JOE: So carbon is the elementary, animated matter?

THERRY: Yeah, right. There are other dimensions, whose...let's say, a diamond and this is carbon, well, there's another dimension where this is made out of copper, another one it would be the world of emotions as they apply all across the Life Force. Emotions themselves, that's a dimension. Another dimension would be just the aspect of mind, not thinking but just mind. That's another dimension, where the only thing that exists in that implied dimension are thoughts.

JOE: Now could...

THERRY: Now thoughts become the behavior that ties the bind.

JOE: Okay, in my (mind) trying to understand the word level better, 'cause that's where I'm having some problems in this case, could dimension and level be interchangeable?

THERRY: Yes. In most cases, those two words are interchangeable. Now the complexity comes in that each dimension is itself subdivided into many, many different levels. In the fabric of reality within this dimension, they were nine major dimensions and a shit load of minor dimensions.

JOE: And using computer lingo, what is the name of the "root directory"?

THERRY: Common reality.

JOE: Okay.

THERRY: It is what people call your awake state.

JOE: Okay.

BETTY: But I thought that along those lines...aren't you supposed to...Okay, if we were living simultaneously, the person that's lost touch with all reality, the other [level's] existence has lost touch with reality too?

THERRY: Not necessarily.

BETTY: Okay, so...

THERRY: You're viewing it only from this level. On another level, he's probably an Einstein. Each individual is a level unto themselves which is subdivided.


THERRY: Each individual is a level unto themselves. The level called Mel would have a very specific set of laws governing it, which is totally different from the level called Dale. The patterns are all the same because there's only one set of patterns. But the level called Mel is made up of a whole conglomerate of concepts which may not exist on the level called Dale. But the patterns would exist just the same.

CORA: You mean [it has] reference to a specific frequency?

THERRY: More than frequency. There are specific levels. It's a case of repeated patterns. You have an emotional side, you have a logical side, you have an interact ional side, you have whatever it is. Well, those are all sublevels within you and everybody has the same pattern, but the specifics of these levels are different. Concepts are different. The thought patterns are different. Their Maat is different, their value system is different because their history is different, but the pattern is all the same. [All humans follow the same pattern].

CORA: It's like...


CORA: Recorders...

THERRY: Record is recollection of differences. It is the key which either allows or forbids admittance into alter-realities.

CORA: But when you show a level unto itself, that's what it takes...

THERRY: ...which is unique unto itself. That [the double-gate called the Blood Mendella] is [what] let's you into your body and lets you out of it or stops you from leaving it, the double gate [which] allows you to pass the illusion. That's why it is truthful to say that every individual is a microcosm of a macrocosm 'cause all the patterns in the Universe are repeated within each individual. While the patterns are there, the concepts are totally different.

CORA: That's why there is so little illusion?


JOE: I have another question. The term level, is it true for organizational purposes?

THERRY: Yes. 'Cause it's not a case for one sitting on top of another and there's a two inch nothing in between.

JOE: Right so, it's just a way of organizing things?


JOE: Is it purely on an individual concept?

THERRY: It's a key for understanding, but life is nothing but a fabric.

CORA: When women have babies...

THERRY: They do things that men can't.

BETTY: (Laugh)

CORA: They feel different to me after they have a baby.

THERRY: That's because they've changed.

CORA: What's the change?

THERRY: Well, it depends on the woman, it depends on the baby, it depends on the purpose for which that baby is born and the condition under which it was born.

CORA: Somehow this woman feels more of an adult than a woman who has a baby.

THERRY: That could be a perceived difference rather than an actual difference.

CORA: Right now, she doesn't like the correct label and it's just ...

THERRY: Well, it's obvious that any individual that goes through what appears to be a very painful experience, they are going to be somewhat...appear to be somewhat grown up the next time you see them, simply by the nature of having experienced that change. But that doesn't mean that they've changed only because they had a baby per se. They've changed by way of the experience, not by way of the baby.

CORA: Yeah... It has to do with having a baby - now this is the feeling I'm feeling--before they see what happens different.

THERRY: Yeah. [It could make a difference].

JOE: Does it feed the maternal?

THERRY: No, the maternal is there. When they have a child certain things are rend and certain ...huh?

CORA: Certain things are what?

THERRY: Rend. R-E-N-D.

CORA: What is [that]?

THERRY: It's sort of torn, but not quite torn...separated. Uhm, that rend can never be repaired, part of them is passed on to the next one. If there are any, for the lack of a better word, sacred patterns, it is passed on to the child.


THERRY: For the lack of a better term, we'll leave it [like] just that. Now, if that pattern is for a woman/child only and a male child is born, then nothing is passed on. If that pattern is for a male child and you give birth to a woman child, again nothing is passed on. But if it is...if the pattern matches the gender, then it is passed on and the parent loses whatever it was.

CORA: So the patterns are gender matched?

THERRY: Karmically gender matched.

CORA: Karmically, meaning according to the child's karma?

THERRY: According,, remember, there's more to sex than the physical body because while, on earth sex comes into three physical forms, it's the same thing on the next mental plane and just because you're a woman, a true woman in your physical body, that doesn't mean that you're going to be a true woman in your mind.

CORA: You mean it's the mind that you're talking about? When you're talking about genders?

THERRY: The match of both.

BETTY: What if they're both sexes on the same level or on each level?

THERRY: Now you're taking about the continuum of sexuality. If both sexes are active, then there would be a true Hermaphrodite.

BETTY: There are actually hermaphrodites?

THERRY: The presence of both. He can fuck himself and get pregnant or she can fuck herself and get pregnant, whatever, from whatever reference point you want to leave it. Totally self-contained.

DUNCAN: Single family unit.

BETTY: Oh my God!

THERRY: Right.


LAUREN: Are there are cases where that's been done?

THERRY: What, that you've fucked yourself and got pregnant or you were hermaphrodite?

LAUREN: Well, there are hermaphrodites, right?

THERRY: 'Course, there are many of them. In today's society, if they even suspect they'll turn them into a woman at birth.

TINA: Wow!

THERRY: They'll cut them off.

JOE: Cut them what?

THERRY: Put them in a pot of oil.


THERRY: He's back in the...

LAUREN: I wonder if everybody understands that, when you make references that not everybody understands.

JOE: That's...strictly from the movie, Circle of Iron.

CORA: Does the mental and the body have to match and the psychic bond? The mother has to match?


CORA: So all three things?


CORA: Okay.

THERRY: When the match is perfect, then the psychic power is transferred, [then] the mother moves with it.

CORA: When the match isn't perfect, she keeps it?

THERRY: Yes, she keeps it, but it's dull. She may not be allowed to use it, even though she keeps it and she could pass it on to the next one if it permits.

BETTY: Does that create any kind of resentment in the female or [anything?]


BETTY:...that they've lost it?

THERRY: No, usually, it heightens the maternal.


BETTY: :So the feeling, I'm feeling is it right [about] the rend?


TINA: Maybe I forgot or maybe you said something is rend, did you ever say what it was?

THERRY: It didn't say what it was.

TINA: You didn't?

THERRY: No, I didn't.

TINA: Well, what is that something?

THERRY: That's for a different conversation.


THERRY: Think for a minute. There is a piece of space that is for you and for you alone. It is enveloped by a source of energy that you and you along possess -- the cosmic egg. That is a rend. In short you blew a fuse.

JOE: Is that like where I read in the Castaneda books where [it says] you're building a hole in the fiber?


LOUISE: Can you repeat that? I don't understand that.

THERRY: Each individual by the nature of the Life Force and the patterns, thereof have an input to a certain degree of power. Depending on how much power they have versus how much power they use up in their illusions, whatever power is left, [which] is extra power, we call it psychic power. That['s] psychic power, following the [universal] laws, you can't have power without having flux. That flux creates a shell around each other, an emanation. For instance, hold up your hand. [Do] you feel something?


THERRY: I sent my flux out to you.

LOUISE: I still [feel] something.

THERRY: Yeah. Now record that.

LOUISE: Oh my God!

THERRY: See that was my flux. That was my extra power that I had that's there. Remember in Volume 1 [The Discovery?] I mentioned that, in explaining something that I said, suppose somebody's born without tons of power and if you use it? This is what we were talking about. When everybody's born, they're born with a certain amount of power and if they use up all of those powers and defenses, then they don't have anything, they're caught in traps, but if all...if they don't have all of these games, they have a lot of extra power that they're not using, that is used up psychic power and it creates an envelope and you can do things with that, like things that you see me do. Well, women have one more thing attached to their set of power. Being that they belong to the sheathe, they have a nurturing effect and they're vulnerable in that in order to fulfill their function, as the sheathe, their egg must be broken. Sort of, the pattern is repeated when the hymen is broken. Once the hymen is broken, in the woman, their egg, their psychic egg is split. That's the rend. Whatever extra power is passed on to the child, if there is one, if the child matches.

LOUISE: All of the [psychic power] is extra power?

THERRY: Yeah. All of the extra power that is designed for that.

BETTY: So what happens when...

THERRY: We're getting away from the [initial subject].

BETTY: As long as...suppose I have four girls, female, all my female children will have the same amount of power?


BETTY: Oh, okay.

THERRY: Again, it depends on them, it depends on you...

BETTY: Okay.

THERRY: It depends on the purpose under which they were born, the purpose under which they're serving.

TINA: Does this imply though that the mother loses the power?


TINA: And then maybe I'm looking as well a[t]...

THERRY: As an example of that, let's say all of your life, you have the ability to read Tarraot, so that you could read Tarraot, see the patterns of life, and accurately predict what was happening, then you meet somebody and fall in love, form an attachment for them, [and then] you get screwed. You have a girl child. You will lose that prophecy power. It'll evolve to the child if the child matches. If the child doesn't match the pattern properly, you will retain the power but you will not be able to use it again.

TINA: I suppose there is a reason for this, right?

THERRY: Yes, there is.

TINA: Is it common that the child will have the same pattern or is it?

THERRY: Fairly so. That's why you read or hear about how the mother was a priestess so the daughter automatically is one and her daughter is one. The seventh son of the seventh son and so forth and [so on].

LOUISE: Is that only [with] daughters?

THERRY: Not, it depends on which ability you're speaking of. Some of it goes strictly to daughters. Some of it goes strictly to men. Others go to both. It depends.

LOUISE: So any time you come across a psychic healer or seer or whatever...

THERRY: If it's not a charlatan, don't they have any power anymore once they have kids?

THERRY: No, they don't.

BETTY: Good God! [You mean] there's all these old [psychic] women going around [taking advantage of people]? Geez! I don't believe that! I mean, most of them you'd think would have children by now [and therefore have no power]. There's no effect on the man?

THERRY: It depends on the power that you're talking about.

BETTY: The man doesn't pass on his power to the child or [anything]?


TINA: She would've also had a passive [thing]

THERRY: The man either loses it or it stays. He keeps it, but he can't use it, but he doesn't pass it on. The only way it can be passed on is in the case of a son to a son to a son to a son.

LAUREN: But men go out and spread their seed around a lot more or say quite often.

THERRY: I think you were about to say that men do it a lot more than women and that's pure bullshit.

LAUREN: Well, I caught myself.

THERRY: I know.

LAUREN: I realized my error.


LAUREN: I know you can tell me what I didn't say or whatever. What I'm saying is that there might be a lot of women's babies out there the man doesn't know he's made and regardless, the power's still...


LAUREN: How does it apply? The man consciously makes a choice to have a child?

THERRY: That only exists -- the pattern that we speak of only exists within the sanctity of marriage.


THERRY: When powers are transferred.

BETTY: So what happens when it's not under the sanctity of marriage? (Inaudible) Either one -- it means that all the powers [are] lost?

THERRY: (Inaudible) Yeah, she still uses it. It's not a case of losing it. They both lost it. We're not talking about losing it. We're talking of practically...

CORA: Oh. So if a man fathers a baby he can still lost it as well or not lose it?

THERRY: Depends on the condition.

CORA: If he's not married?

THERRY: It depends on the conditions.

THERRY: Remember celibacy's a state of mind, it's not [merely] a physical action. Yeah.

BETTY: So all of the kids who don't have parents and are down and out...

THERRY: Are they what?

BETTY: Down and out because they don't have the power, whatever power from there [mother or parents].

THERRY: Well, you can't make that as a blanket statement because it's possible that they're down and out in order to learn a lesson. So you've got to be careful not to make blanket statements.

BETTY: I won't.

THERRY: It is also possible that some children can be down and out because they don't have the power of a family. Yes?

JOE: When the man...okay, the process of a parent giving an ability to the off-spring, is it a gift?


JOE: And that's why the marriage exists?

THERRY: Yes. That's the whole reason why they got married to begin with and with each pass, the power gets stronger.

JOE: Okay. That makes sense.

CORA: Okay, so if you have a baby and you're not married and you have the power and you're a woman...

THERRY: You don't have the power if you have a baby and you're not married 'cause whatever [power] you might've had is gone.

CORA: Okay, let's start over.

THERRY: The only thing you have is the memory of the power.

CORA: But if you have the power when you're not married, then you have a baby and you're a woman, okay.

THERRY: Well, I hope so.


CORA: You can have power for yourself but you don't pass it on to your baby if you're not married?

THERRY: Correct.

GLO: Now [when] you say "the sanctity of marriage," doesn't that apply to each individual? Or are you saying just marriage in general?

THERRY: The marriage pattern.

GLO: Because many people can be married and not be [close].

THERRY: That's not ["the sanctity of marriage"]. Just because two people get together, sign a piece of paper...

LAUREN: That's what I was [trying to say].

THERRY: That doesn't mean...that's not "the sanctity of marriage."

LAUREN: Right.

CORA: What's your definition of "the sanctity of marriage" in this conversation?

THERRY: Contact your chain and answer that. Consult your chain.

CORA: Playing the marriage game?

THERRY: Ignore the static that's there. Ignore the static that's there.


THERRY: Huh? Do you know the answer to that question?

LAUREN: What did she say?

THERRY: Well I want her to get it from her chain. After she's finished talking to her chain, then we'll [talk about her question].

BETTY: It doesn't matter if that change is over time, as long as it's there?

THERRY: Correct, correct. The bond, the bond is love, not the bond of attraction and not the bond of sheer desire, but the bond of love. (Inaudible) You're using terms that were different from what I used. The marriage contract is the signing of a paper and standing before some idiot saying [blah, blah, blah, blah, blah].


THERRY: But I didn't use those phrases. I used the sanctity of marriage.


LAUREN: The sanctity of marriage is the bond.

JOE: And that's the same pattern that was used for the master?


JOE: It's nice to know this stuff is still around.

THERRY: So I hear.

CORA: (Inaudible) Would [two people], their [ coming together to bond], would their coming together [be in order] to have a child?

THERRY: It's not to have a child, [it's] to join with them.

CORA: Join as in the sexual act?


CORA: The joining is intent to have a child?

THERRY: Duality becomes the Chi.

CORA: You mean all the chemicals have joined together before the person?

THERRY: Mel, you're talking physical.

CORA: The energy is flowing together to join the person.

THERRY: You're still talking physical. You're thinking physical. You're thinking physical due process.

JOE: Can I ask a question?


JOE: Is a gift always necessary in order to create the channel?


JOE: So without that gift, the channel would not exist?

THERRY: The channel will not exist but not for the same purpose.

JOE: Okay, so the channel has to be prepared?


JOE: But prepared in the right way? There could be some nice effects?


BETTY: What are you speaking of?

THERRY: The same thing.

BETTY: Oh, the same thing!

THERRY: Just from a higher level, not a different one.

CORA: Are all the...

THERRY: Go back, sit before a mirror and leave this level and go to a level up and try.

CORA: Okay.

LOUISE: The whole reason I moved was because I didn't want you to swat me.

THERRY: I don't do those things.


LOUISE: I didn't want him to swat me. I don't know where I get those things from.

BETTY: How do you stop using all the energy involved?

THERRY: How do I do it? Or how could you?

BETTY: No, I meant "you" as in [anybody].

THERRY: Are you asking for a pattern or a concept?

BETTY: Well, I guess a concept.

THERRY: Well, then it would be applicable to you only. Sure you want me to tell you?

BETTY: Okay, yes.

THERRY: Stop being so selfish. You have to learn to realize that it is true, you are important, but no more important than other people. They have their differences and because they're different that doesn't mean they're better or worse. You have to respect them on the same level that you respect yourself. Stop playing these other games.

BETTY: Yeah, but I don't think of myself playing these other games.

THERRY: I can't hear you.

THERRY: I don't think of myself as [feeling] more special in myself than someone else.

THERRY: Really, then why do you play the games you do? Aren't your games specifically designed or a great many of the games specifically designed to take care of you at the expense of somebody else? As opposed to doing something to take care of you with somebody else?

BETTY: I guess that's true.

THERRY: Think about that pattern alone. That's the first thing. You cannot receive equality until you give equality. You cannot be pure of mind until you give purity of mind. Once you have [that] within your Maat, absolute equality, there's no such thing as black, there's no such thing as white, there's no such thing as danger. There's no such thing as honky, there's no such thing as any of these derogatory terms. All there is, is one human being that is different from the other who has different needs and different [sets of circumstances]. When you can truly say that within you, then you'll have the power to do what you want in terms of not placing your energy in the wrong place. But for you, that's your first step. Until you get that, you won't be able to stop your wars with other things that we teach you.

BETTY: Yeah.

THERRY: That must come first.

BETTY: But how do you get to that stage? I mean how can I [get to that point?].

THERRY: Okay, that was a different question. Let's see if I can answer that one. Stop expecting things from people. Learn to accept what they give you as a gift rather than expecting it. Once you have done that, that will help you see things in a different way. Once you see things from a different way, you'll be less emotional when you get pissed off, okay.

BETTY: Well, I know this may be full of shit but I mean I always used to...well, I always used to [at] some ages I always used to disrespect the process, you know.

THERRY: Until you did it to them first before they ever had a chance to do it to you.

BETTY: (Laugh)

THERRY: Let's be truthful. (Laugh)

BETTY: Okay, so it's's my excuse because I think they would do that. Okay.

THERRY: Remember when you talk to me, you can't hide anything.

LOUISE: You can't what?

THERRY: Can't hide anything. Did you get it?

BETTY: I think so.

THERRY: [What did you get?]

CORA: Heart to heart. Spirit to spirit.


CORA: Mind force to mind force, the attitude and values and commitments.
THERRY: Yes. There is absolutely a bond.

CORA: For us on the physical?

THERRY: No, once it gets down to the physical level, then she returns.

CORA: So it's a psychic marriage?

THERRY: Yes. It's interesting how it ...brings tears to the eyes. Yeah. Life is never as simple as you think.

BETTY: I thought I could take a quick meditation class that would help me.

THERRY: It'll help me but it doesn't mean that the rest of the troubles of the world are going to go away. Life will continue.

BETTY: No, but won't it make me a lot more clear?

THERRY: Just because you have a brain, there's no guarantee you're going to use it. And just because you know the difference between right and wrong, there's no guarantee that you're going to automatically chose what's right.

BETTY: But what has what you're telling me have to do with [that?]

THERRY: It'll control your emotions...Your emotions are the key.

BETTY: Will I get some clarity?

THERRY: Yes. To the degree that your emotions are present, to that degree is there confusion, to that degree is there anger and to that degree is there distortion. To the degree that your emotions are not present, to that degree is there tranquility and equal clarity. See life is a pairing. The law is, whichever comes first will rule. So if your thought comes first, then, if it is indeed your thought that comes first, then your thought will choose your emotion, which will allow you to choose your next thought, but if your emotions come first, the emotion will chose the thought which will support it, causing distortion, which will chose the next thought, which will chose the next emotion and the emotion will build and build and build.

BETTY: Yeah.

THERRY :The first thing you know, what started out like a little pimple, that will continue until a whole [welter] needs fixing. That's the reason why things appear to be more important or bigger or whatever when you're in an emotional state. You've allowed the thought to come first and therefore it is your emotions that are in control. There's no telling what's going to end up.

BETTY: But then I'm breaking that cycle when I see that?

THERRY: In the beginning, no. When you're out of those stages, you have to learn to stop yourself from getting into those stages. That's the only way to stop it.

BETTY: It's better than.

CORA: In order to have a psychic match, you have to have antenna to do that?

THERRY: It usually begins in there.

CORA: So you either are not married or [married with powers?]


LOUISE: There was something you said earlier to Judy about "Be thankful for gifts without expecting them?"

THERRY: That was specifically for her.

LOUISE: Oh. I hope I wasn't [internalizing your comment].

THERRY: She asked me a question that was specifically in her life. While it is duplicated in many other people's lives, the concepts within that duplication are different, so the answer that I gave her wouldn't work the same with you because your situation is different. If you have a curiosity about a similar concept ask it and it will be answered with relationship to your life and you'll find that the response is different.

LOUISE: What does that mean? Does that mean I'm not supposed to expect a certain amount of success and response from an audience of artists? It would feel like you deserve it and go after it. Is that being egotistical or is that a [feeling ] that you're competent or it's that you deserve to be recognized and it's okay to have it happen?

THERRY: Okay. There's many things in that.


THERRY: First, a wise individual knows enough to expect nothing from no-one. But greatly appreciate whatever he receives from all. And the wise individual accepts whatever is received merely as a tool to satisfy the needs of the situation. The selfish individual will accept what is received not unlike "Well, it's about time I got it, you owe it to me." So therefore, to the degree of satisfaction you receive from both sets of circumstances is going to be different and the future will be different because of both. Now the wise individual will expect nothing, will gracefully accept all things within their limitations and not let it go to their heads. He will realize or she will realize the applause is not truly saying how great you are but is saying how effective you were in deceiving me. For a moment, I was able to escape my problems and enter your dream. That is a totally different situation from the individual who is saying the applause is for me personally because I was great. Two different points of view. And it doesn't matter if the applause comes in the form of laughter because you've made someone laugh in a social situation or if you're on stage or if you're offstage or if you're simply offstage or if you're simply in a game of...