Arkashean Q&A Session -- 031
WAN: ...realizing something intellectually, but not really knowing it because emotionally you react in the same old patterns, and I've asked you how do you get it from one to the other before, and mostly you've just said that it takes time, but this last incident, when I called you a couple of times about my friend's freaking out and having a nervous breakdown, it's still getting to me, I mean, I can't believe, even though I know, and I thought I'd reasoned this out, I shouldn't do this, I shouldn't be that way, and, I'm still--I get caught up in it.
THERRY: Yea, but you have to remember that you have a very special habit. You love to nail yourself on the cross. You love to become God and dictate how the world should be. You don't like the idea that the world is a cruel place.
WAN: Is a cruel place?
THERRY: Very cruel place. You will get exactly what you ask for. And if you spend your life knowingly doing things that you shouldn't, well, it ain't going to be too long before life kicks you in the butt. You don't like that. So you're going to play the magnanimous God, and you're gonna change nature. It just don't work that way. You're gonna have to accept that there are some situations that you can never do anything. The only thing you can do is morally support the individual. `I understand, oh, that's terrible! Yea...", and all that. But in terms of taking their pain away, you cannot.
WAN: But I know that intellectually. That's what I mean, but I keep reacting the same old way.
THERRY: `Cause you're trying to play God. You want to climb up on that cross, and from the glory of that cross, you're going to rule the world. It doesn't work that way.
WAN: How do I stop doing it though, is my question, `cause I think that I've stopped it, or at least I feel, you know, I feel like I understand that I have to try to change that and that I shouldn't--
THERRY: You understand, but you don't accept. There's a difference. You still think that YOU can make a difference. And so long as you continue thinking that YOU can make a difference, then you're not going to stop it. You still think you can have the power of God to make a difference.
WAN: That's true.
THERRY: And so long as you maintain that, you're not going to change. In order to change it, you first have to accept the fact that there are some circumstances where it makes no difference what you do, say, or think. All the feeling in the world is not going to stop the other person from going through his or her chosen pain. You have to learn to stop stealing. If somebody is dying, wailing, squealing, there's nothing that you can do about it. If it is their Karma, then all you can do is help them in their moment of fear. But for you to sit there and be so presumptuous as thinking you're going to make a difference, who the hell are you, Karma? That's how you change it. You first recognize that you are not Karma. You're just the same as the rest of us. One more human being who's doing the best they can with what they have. Keep in your place. You're a human being; you're not a God. Don't try to act like one. That's how you change it. Does it make sense?
WAN: Yea, it makes --yea, because I've been feeling like well, it's more like I shouldn't do something about it, instead of feeling like I can't do anything about it.
WAN: My feeling is I can do something and I shouldn't.
WAN: So I have to realize that I can't--
THERRY: Right, your basic attitude is still `I can make a difference. And there are so many situations where this is just not true. The only thing that you can do is create harm.
WAN: Are there other times where you can?
THERRY: Yes, there are times when you can. Sure, but the only thing that you can do is to morally support the individual. If an individual consistently commits an error over and over again because they never have to pay for it, because some other shmuck comes by and steals all of their pains all the time, how are they going to finally stop committing that error? Sooner or later they're going to have to because people can't be stealing their pain all the time.
WAN: So think in terms of helping them in the long run instead of helping them for this moment?
THERRY: Yea. Every time you steal somebody's pain, you're guaranteeing that that person is going to suffer a greater pain later.
THERRY: And you're also guaranteeing that that person is gonna try harder and harder to get that pain that you stole from them, so they're not going to learn. They could end up going through far more pain thanks to your help. With friends like that, you don't need any enemies.
WAN: Well that's true, because when I was trying to, I don't know, offer an alternative way of looking at something, she got really mad.
THERRY: Of course, she wasn't interested in that.
WAN: She cut herself again, you know, she'll show me--
THERRY: Yea, she's not interested in help. What she wants is applause from her audience.
THERRY: Yea, why do you think she goes up and shows you that she's cutting for?
THERRY: She wants applause. You'd do her a bigger favor by saying hey; next time go chose a bigger knife. Instead of, `oh, that's terrible!' You'd be a whole lot better off to simply tell her, `hey, why don't you do the job right for Christ's sake? Go see yourself a shrink.'
WAN: She is.
THERRY: But obviously the shrink is not giving her the audience that she wants.
WAN: I think finally the medication's starting to work. She's starting to pull out. She was on anti-depressants for a couple of months and they're finally starting to help a little bit.
THERRY: But you never help somebody by stealing pain. You really want to help anybody at all, see to it that they contact the proper professional help. And the rest you leave alone.
WAN: I was really surprised at my reaction though, I just--right, boom, I've got to go save her! It was the same mentality all over again, I couldn't believe it.
THERRY: Yea, it's the same mentality that you use with some other people.
WAN: Yea, but that's --
THERRY: `Cause you're not ready yet to mind your own business. You feel YOU can make a difference. You're stealing other people's lives. Now, one more time, in order to answer your question, the response is, get a life of your own. Stop trying to steal somebody else's. That's how you change it. YOU CANNOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE. And in the few areas where you really can, you shouldn't. Remember, there's a law here: if an individual works all of his life to grow an apple, he has the right to have the fruits of his own labor. Likewise, if he spends all his life doing negatives, he has the right to experience that pain. You don't have the right to steal it from him.
WAN: Should you even try to make him see that maybe that's not the best thing to do? I mean--
THERRY: Don't you think they've got enough brains so that they know themselves what's right and what's wrong? Are you suddenly going to be their parents and start teaching them the difference between right and wrong? The best that you can do for them is to see to it that somehow they contact proper care. The professional people who are trained for it. Beyond that, leave `em alone; let `em experience their own pain.
WAN: Are there any, I don't know, exercises, mental exercises that I can do to get rid of that? `Cause I was really surprised at my reaction--
THERRY: No, you have to change an attitude.
WAN: How can I go about --I thought I had! I mean, I was surprised when it happened, I was the same old me again, I couldn't believe it.
THERRY: You remember the cycles, graphs about when change is possible?
WAN: Oh, yea, the process of change.
THERRY: Exactly. Become more familiar with it. Don't use that as an excuse, but become more familiar with it.
WAN: So again, it's just give myself time.
THERRY: Yes. That's why I always respond with give yourself time. One of these days you'll have a one instead of a zero.
WAN: I'll have a one instead of a zero?
THERRY: Yea, having to reference to that graph.
WAN: Oh, yea, I don't know about the graph thing, I just know the process of change is you realize it before, and then--
THERRY: Isn't that cycle of change graphed in the book? The Discovery?
SCHELE: Which? What?
WAN: The cycle of change, the graph of change.
THERRY: Before, During and After. Yea, I believe that's in the book. Read it. And the before, during and after, it doesn't matter what the target behavior is, it's all the same. There's a lot of information in that book. Read it and that will help you understand. But then, you can read it until you're blue in the face, and it ain't gonna help until you change your own attitudes. And you ain't gonna be able to change your own attitudes until you're willing. So long as you still want the rewards of playing God, have fun.
WAN: Would it be worthwhile to try to figure out why I do that, what it is--
THERRY: That's obvious. Center stage. Rejection--
WAN: That's--it's ego?
THERRY: Sure. There are three things involved in playing God. Center stage, the nemesis to rejection, and the self-satisfaction. Does that address your--if you read the book, you'll understand why I keep saying, give it time.
WAN: Well, it is a little better, but it's still a lot worse than I thought. At least I didn't--I caught myself doing this, I said, whoaa.
THERRY: I think the book also explains the time cycles between each.
WAN: Each time I'm confronted with a situation?
THERRY: Yea, the time span changes as the growing takes place.
WAN: And that's a chapter called Due Process? The whole subject is called--
SCHELE: Was it a whole chapter?
THERRY: No, a part in the chapter deals with it.
SCHELE: I know some things are discussed several times in different places. That part I can't remember.
THERRY: I don't either. I know that it's talking about change, and growth, and pain.
WAN: It's called Due Process, the chapter?
THERRY: I don't know; I don't think so.
SCHELE: No, no, it's not called that. I don't even remember what it is. But you can find it.
THERRY: It explains how in the beginning you'll do it for a long time, and not know it; then, you'll know it but still continue to do it; and each time the time cycle between knowing it ahead of time, and doing it, will get shorter and shorter and shorter, until finally you'll do it and know it at the same time, and then, you'll still keep doing it until finally you'll know it before time rather than afterward. And when that stretch gets long enough, it will be enough time for the mind to come in and stop the emotions and then the behavior will begin changing. So it starts with--it will be a long time before you realize that it's wrong, and that time cycle gets shorter and shorter and shorter, until you know it's wrong at the time that you do it.
SCHELE: Alright, getting to Sam now, okay, this looks to me like the ear infection's back, the first thing he says to me when I go into the room is his ear hurts, his nose starts going again, he's been treated for this twice with two different anti-biotic. They obviously are not working. So now we're thinking, okay, do we now have to go to a hospital tomorrow to the emergency--what, to get yet another antibiotic that won't work? I mean, we're really confused, I mean--
THERRY: Well, it may not be that the antibiotic is not working; it may be that it's working very slowly.
SCHELE: But he's off it already. They put you on it ten days--
THERRY: I understand that. But if the antibodies are going to be working very slowly, then he's going to need more than just what they gave you.
SCHELE: So he's got to keep getting --
THERRY: Refills. Now, if that is the way it is, and it also may be that what they're diagnosing may not be proper. That's a possibility. Another possibility is that what they're choosing to fight the infection may also not be the best for Sammy. There's no way of knowing.
SCHELE: Well, what do you do then? You have to keep going to new doctors? Try new medicines--that's going to be eternal in this world with doctors blundering --
THERRY: Yea, well, I agree with you that so many doctors really should never be doctors; you also have to consider that that's all we have for now. So you have to make due hoping to find a good one. A good pediatrician is very difficult to find.
SCHELE: I think we're concerned especially now too because to get on a plane with a nosebleed and an earache, that's probably the two worst things you could have.
THERRY: Yes. So it may well be that perhaps you should see a pediatrician locally. I'm sure there might be a way to see a pediatrician without having to go to an emergency hospital.
SCHELE: On a Saturday? They see people on Saturday morning?
RON: Yea, I hear a lot of doctors do a nine to twelve type stunt.
THERRY: So, it's simply a case of sitting at the telephone and just going through the listing until you find someone that is willing to see you that quickly.
JIMMY: Then you have to say, "by the way, are you one of the good pediatricians?"
THERRY: Tee-hee-hee. What do you do when they say no?
JIMMY: Call the next one.
THERRY: Either that or say, "that means, then, that I can pay you half-price."
SCHELE: I wanted to ask, there was a big tornado recently in Kansas, and I remember that it was said that the wind is an Elemental, that's tornadoes too? Then I thought that --you said that Elementals have to be invoked, they're not acting in their own volition?
THERRY: They obey law only.
SCHELE: So, does it mean that when something like this tornado hits, well, then, uh--
THERRY: They're obeying the laws of Earth.
SCHELE: That's different than being invoked?
THERRY: Well, it's still obeying the law.
SCHELE: Then, that's like rain, or anything like that.
THERRY: Yea, they obey a law.
SCHELE: Um, what kind of Karma is it to be carried in the eye of the tornado and laid down to rest, and nothing happens to you? I wondered about that.
THERRY: Good transportation.
SCHELE: Well, that's true (chuckles), but I mean, what is that? What kind of experience, what kind of lesson would be learned from something like that?
THERRY: It could be a way of handling fear.
SCHELE: A specific kind of fear, though?
SCHELE: I mean, the fear would not be being afraid of being carried in the eye of a tornado? Am I right?
THERRY: The fear could be fear of harm.
SCHELE: Fear of harm? I don't get that.
SCHELE: Well, let's say, a number of people may have a fear of harm, but--
THERRY: That's takes many faces.
SCHELE: Yea, but the harm that they're afraid of is probably not going to be being carried in the eye of a tornado, or is it?
THERRY: That's only the format to deliver the fear.
SCHELE: It's a certain kind of fear then, that is the case?
THERRY: Yea. In most circumstances on planet Earth, if you're caught in fear, you usually blame somebody else. Let's see you blame somebody else when you're experiencing the fear because of a tornado.
SCHELE: Well, I would think if you're really into blame, you'd blame God. The people who would be into blaming, if it was something in nature, they'd still blame.
THERRY: But you can't blame your fear on God.
SCHELE: Oh, you mean they blame their actual fear on somebody else. Oh.
JIMMY: What kind of Karma's invoked by the guy who's picked up by the tornado, dropped on his head, and killed? What's he paying back?
THERRY: Murder Karma.
SCHELE: But I thought it was an eye for an eye. I thought that the deed had to be the same thing --
THERRY: What if he accidentally killed somebody?
THERRY: Yea, what mankind calls accidentally kills somebody. Because of something he did.
SCHELE: I thought even that was, you know, exact--
THERRY: No, the pattern is.
SCHELE: The pattern. You mean, the pattern of accidentally dropping a brick on somebody's head could be the same as being killed by a tornado? Those patterns are similar?
THERRY: Not in that particular case, but it's not too far from the thing of having a tornado drops a brick on your head, or dropping you on the brick. Same results.
SCHELE: Now, also in this conversation that we had about Elementals, you talked about people invoking forces to use, to use them for their own purposes. Was that more like talking about witchcraft or voodoo, or that sort of thing? Is that also Elemental-type stuff?
SCHELE: But the forces they would invoke would not be a tornado; it would be a different kind of force?
THERRY: You could never tell.
SCHELE: So it could be a tornado too.
JIMMY: I'm sorry, did you just suggest that tornadoes are invoked by people screwing around.
SCHELE: We're talking about Elementals. That's in the book too. You can read about Elementals.
JIMMY: Are you suggesting that somebody screwing around with something like witchcraft etc., etc., could invoke a tornado?
SCHELE: Well, I don't know, it was other things we talked about; I don't know, somebody could invoke a tornado then?
THERRY: If they were, or had sufficient mind-power, mind-presence to begin the process of governing natural law, sure. It's unlikely, but--
JIMMY: So it's reasonable to say that when something like a tornado or a tidal wave or an earthquake happens that it's a natural phenomenon.
SCHELE: Okay, my other question is, because many years ago you told me I had a psychic block, and can you explain to me what that means?
THERRY: You're not ready to turn your face to the psychic world.
SCHELE: Oh. The psychic meaning the spiritual world?
THERRY: The mind world.
SCHELE: The mind world. As in traveling; not as in mind stuff here. Is it from fear?
THERRY: I never spoke about that.
SCHELE: No, I'm asking.
THERRY: Well, having reference to when I said it, you were talking about how come you weren't so interested in Astrations, projections, and all of this other stuff. At that time I told you you had a psychic block. You were more anchored to Earth, and less concerned with the other things.
SCHELE: Does the psychic block also block things you might do on the Earth? Or am I mixing two--
THERRY: That all depends on the nature of the block.
SCHELE: Well, let's say my writer's block that I've always had--
THERRY: That's a possibility.
SCHELE: Does that stem from fear?
THERRY: Not always. Remember, everybody follows a script. Depending on what's written in that script, your destiny states perhaps you'll be this way during this time, that way during that time. You can't really blame it on anything specific. It's just the nature of your being. Your life script.
WAN: You don't like the script?
THERRY: Your LIFE script.
WAN: Oh, your life script.
THERRY: The script of your life.
SCHELE: To be half-assed? To feel --
THERRY: That's not being half-assed; that's simply being cyclic.
THERRY: Goes in cycles.
JIMMY: What do you do with the frustration aspect of feeling like, well, it doesn't seem like anything that I do is bringing about the end of a cycle, so I'll just do nothing and wait for it to end on its own.
THERRY: Your question appears to seek to address `what do you do with the frustration?'
JIMMY: Yea. If you've accepted the fact that it is cyclical--
THERRY: Perhaps you should address if you want it repeated often enough. If you decide you wanted it repeated `cause you like frustration, then go ahead and be frustrated. If you don't want it repeated in some future time, accept the fact that it is cycles, make the best out of it. If life hands you lemons, make lemonade, don't bitch. If you know it will end because it's a cycle, you should also realize that it will end in its own time. In the meantime, you do the best that you can. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. When the time comes when one basket is barren, you have other baskets to deal with. That has a way of nullifying the barren baskets. Did that address your question?
JIMMY: Um-hum. It just doesn't seem to make me like lemonade any better.
THERRY: That part's true. Everything has a price. (big pause)
SCHELE: Is there a kind of homework I can do towards meditating `cause I try to do it every night before I go to sleep, but I don't feel like I know what I'm doing, so I kind of wait and hope something will happen, but is there an--
THERRY: Perhaps that's your key right there.
THERRY: Hoping. What is it you expect to happen?
SCHELE: Just something that's not lying there. Something that's different than--knowledge is what I hope to happen. Or just seeing something that is different from internal dialogue just flying into your head. Peace, stuff like that, stuff like--
THERRY: Peace has got to come from within.
SCHELE: So are there things to help that? I imagine there's a process that you can work towards, right? Or is that not true?
THERRY: Well, just keep relaxing. There are different meditation techniques depending on where you want to be --
SCHELE: You mean like mantras and everything?
SCHELE: Are those helpful?
THERRY: For some people they are.
SCHELE: Obviously not for me because (can't understand here). Um then, anyway, this is related to that, um, Jena called I guess, a few weeks ago, and we had a nice conversation, and then I got into bed and I always try my meditation as I always do, except this was the first time I ever had an experience that I'd never had which was that I got --I felt an incredible peace and wanting to go home. That was after I got off the phone, then I got into bed and I tried to meditate as I usually do, and I got images like in a movie but I was detached from them emotionally. That's the first time--I've certainly heard of all this, it's never happened to me, never actually happened. And whether it was childhood, different people I knew, it was a movie script, it was all going through, and it was wonderful in that I wasn't, my internal dialogue was not flying in, and my emotions, and then I got a very strong feeling that what aided me in doing that was something that passed through the phone wire literally, through Jena, okay? That's what it felt like, that's what I felt. That it actually came through. And that's how I was able to do this. And so that--
THERRY: So that's your mantra. Hone in to the vision and to the peace with Jena.
SCHELE: I hadn't specifically honed into it though.
THERRY: You did automatically.
SCHELE: Oh, I just did automatically.
THERRY: It's a case of not honing in for magic's sake, but honing in for the sake of oh, a friend, how nice. Try that as your mantra.
SCHELE: You mean thinking about Jena.
SCHELE: Feeling? Okay.
THERRY: Feel as though you guys are close, you're great friends. Feel the caring and the love that comes from her, and just enjoy the hell out of it and let yourself slip off. Use that as your mantra. Again, it's not the person, it's the relationship. `Cause that's the same relationship which comes from Arkashea. (Long Pause)
SCHELE: Um, I kind of feel like a courier doing this, and but, anyway, I have a friend, and she's one of these people who are very specifically answering, what's the word, periphery?
SCHELE: And just the most minute answers, and then I shut up because I just have that feeling with her. Um, and --
THERRY: You have to remember that everybody learns at their own pace.
SCHELE: Yea, but this time when she heard I was going down again, she said to me, will you ask Therry for me please, if he has a message for me. So--
THERRY: The message for her to find peace and not rush things, but at the same time stop being too timid.
SCHELE: Stop being too timid.
THERRY: Remember the whole message. The first is find peace by not rushing things, but at the same time, don't be too timid. Stop being so timid. She knows what areas I'm talking about. She knows the difference between right and wrong. And so does he.
WAN: So does he?
THERRY: So does he.
SCHELE: I think you're talking about the other couple, John's friends? (big pause)
JIMMY: I asked you, or somebody asked you last time we were down here.
THERRY: Last time I was down here?
JIMMY: No, last time we were down here whether or not you had other students in New York and you said no.
THERRY: No, I did not say that.
JIMMY: At that particular time, okay. You said not that came to Florida to work with you.
THERRY: Correct. There is a difference.
JIMMY: Is that still true?
THERRY: That is still true. ( Long Pause)
WAN: In dealing with my friend Tia--
THERRY: Have an understanding heart, but don't do anything for her.
WAN: What about--I find myself losing patience. Wanting to--
THERRY: Ask yourself a question: How many times have I spoken to Therry or to whomever about the exact same thing? How would I like it if he or they suddenly told me to take off, I'm tired of handling the same thing over again. How would you like that?
WAN: I wouldn't.
THERRY: Then you give them the same gift. If you want a friend, you must be a friend. Not a teacher, and certainly not a god. Just a friend.
WAN: So just try my best not to get riled?
THERRY: Yes. Just bear in mind that what you give a friend you make an appointment to get yourself. That sort of puts a different light on things. So if you're in the mood for a lot of pain, have fun.
SCHELE: Same thing applies to yourself, right?
SCHELE: Double, right.
THERRY: The reason why it's double is not only do you get to experience the pain that you're giving out, you also get to have it twice `cause you get to experience when it comes back. That makes it double.
WAN: So there. (Laughter)
JIMMY: When I started to meditate, should I do it with a candle?
THERRY: Yes, do it mentally. Use this one. Don't use your own, use this one.
DONNA: What's wrong with having a candle?
THERRY: That's not part of the question he asked.
DONNA: Why use the candle?
THERRY: That's still not part of the question that he asked.
DONNA: Would there be any reason to not use the candle?
THERRY: If you don't use it properly, you can hurt your eyes.
JIMMY: A couple of times in the last--couple weeks before we came down, Sue and I talked a little bit about how to talk, how to answer people who are sort of on the periphery who have expressed some kind of an interest or curiosity or, you know, it may be more sincere than just curiosity.
THERRY: It doesn't matter in either case; answer the question fully, but don't push it.
JIMMY: Regardless of what the question is?
THERRY: Regardless of what the question is, answer it fully, but don't push it. Don't try to convert them.
JIMMY: Is there ever an instance when, `cause I think this has happened with you in the past, where somebody will ask you something, and you'll end up saying well, really, you could call and ask yourself, is there ever an instance where you don't want to talk to somebody?
WAN: I usually ask you first to give the number. Is that correct? Should I continue to do that?
JIMMY: This afternoon Jena and Susan were talking about the plans that you have for hopefully buying up some more buildings around here to spread the Monastery out. And, they started talking to me about the Ark of Fire, and the two of them were discussing some kind of time thing where Susan seemed to think it was a lot sooner than Jena did; Jena was talking about things like hundreds of years. Can you explain a little bit more about what it is because I don't think I understand, and maybe you could clear up some stuff.
THERRY: Um, in one of the books we're dealing with, we go pretty extensively into the Ark of Fire. So just read the book. As a matter of fact, if you guys are going to be here Sunday, no, never mind, we'll just read the book. Basically the Ark of Fire is simply --for the lack of a better term, look at it as a divine intervention so that the species Man and the life forms of the planet can continue in spite of themselves.
JIMMY: Did the Ark of Water --
THERRY: Yes, the Ark of Fire's the third and the last one.
JIMMY: Okay, Jena had mentioned that it would take hundreds of years?
THERRY: Well, let's not put a time frame on it.
JIMMY: Okay, as opposed to as I remember my bible studies, the forty days and forty nights--
THERRY: That doesn't necessarily use the same calendar of the time that you were speaking of. You have to bear in mind that was during a time when the Earth was not cool sufficiently, so most of the gaseous volcanic liquids were still up in the clouds. So, when it finally did start raining, it rained.
JIMMY: An acid rain. (Pause)
PETO: You partly answered the question, but I told you sometimes she's just cutting off, she's not here, not paying attention, gives you the feeling you could not be there, you could be exactly the same thing, and I feel--
THERRY: Can I go into your mind? `Cause I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
PETO: You're welcome.
THERRY: Okay, now I know what you're talking about. Go ahead. You have to bear in mind that what's happening is it's not that she cares less, it's that she has a different way of expressing her caring in different cycles than you do. Her way of expressing caring is cyclic in that there are stages where she's going to be lovey dovey, very closely, and ain't gonna be able to leave you alone. But there's also other cycles where "What do you mean I don't care? I looked at you didn't I? Isn't that close enough?"
PETO: Well, the thing is that when she's like that, the fact that she didn't even look at me--
THERRY: The point is, she did look at you; you just weren't looking at her at the time. (Laughter) --
JIMMY: You blinked.
THERRY: --so, the thing there is each of you are going to have to recognize that each of you grew up in different neighborhoods, and different values, and different ways of handling things. Plus you have to bear in mind too that relative needs differ. You're a very physical person; you're a romantic, the original Frenchman. She, on the other hand, you could say is very close to being British in that if you get too close, well, it's time to leave until "I'm ready"
PETO: You're talking about her?
THERRY: Yea. Until "I'm ready to want you, you have to keep your distance. You've got to give me space; I've got a job to do, I've got a future to build, I've got a career, I've got to become rich and famous, I want to make a lot of money so that we can support us in the custom that we wish we were accustomed to." You, on the other hand, are very tender, very loving, very close, and sometimes that smothers her. It's too much. It's not that she doesn't care, it's just that I love you but right now I'm thinking of something else; I don't have time to feel or express that I feel. I'm working on a song, or I'm working here. I'm doing that. With you, it's possible for you to think of all kinds of things and still take the time to feel. So it's two different ways. So what's going to happen over time is that you're going to develop a system where you don't expect that much demonstration of caring. She, on the other hand, is gonna have to develop a system of taking more time to express her feelings. So it's not a case that the feelings are there or they're not there, it's just that they're expressed differently. That, in any relationship, is called hard-core adjustments. There's a lot of hurt there. During that hard-core adjustment, both sides hurt a lot.
PETO: But sometimes it seems to me that there's such an offset between the two behaviors that--
THERRY: Yea, of course there is. That's why it's called hard-core adjustments, because it's difficult times. Everybody seems to be playing the game `well, if you really loved me, you --'You, on the other hand, say you'd express it more. She, on the other hand, would feel `you'd give me more space.' So there is no quick and easy way. It's just going to take time for you guys to adjust.
I guess it's like playing chess. One move, it's your turn--
THERRY: Yea. That's a good expression for it.
WAN: One move, what?
PETO: One move, it's your turn. Well, the good thing is that in chess, you can go backwards.
THERRY: Same here, in relationships you can go backwards. But, you have to be willing. That's what the phrase, I'm sorry, means. When it's said with truth, it means I'm sorry, let's go backwards, let's undo what was done and start from this point. The only problem is when you go back so often, and then you don't believe it any more.
PETO: You mean when you say it a hundred times per second.
THERRY: Yea, something like that. It gets old. I think at the same time I was reading his mind, I was reading yours too.
WAN: Oh yea?
THERRY: Yea, `cause there was a double link there.
WAN: I do have this ability to completely shut my surroundings out. I'm not even aware of it. He'll bring up conversations that he swears we had for ten minutes and I don't even remember ever talking about it or ever hearing it mentioned and he says we talked about it for ten minutes.
PETO: That's something different. `Cause at the time we are talking about the thing, she's there and responding and listening and answering--
THERRY: Selective forgetting. If the subject matter at the time is not as important as something else that she would like to be doing, then the data doesn't get placed in permanent memory; it just gets erased.
WAN: Are those differences anything we should try to figure out why, you know, like why we--
THERRY: No, it doesn't matter why. The only thing that's necessary is each of you have to realize that each have a different way of doing things and you have to adjust. Don't try to get it all your way all the time; each will give to the other.
WAN: Would it help to know why in order to adjust, like, to know why I need my space?
WAN: That won't help me not needing it so much?
SCHELE: Do John and I have the same set-up, same dynamic?
THERRY: Everybody has the same set-up. It's a normal human trait.
SCHELE: Then people--
WAN: Opposites attract!
SCHELE: --opposites are together.
THERRY: Yes, always. If two people were the same, they wouldn't be able to stand one another. Obviously there's a seeming contradiction here because the more people have in common, the more they're happy with one another, but if their personalities are the same, they can't stand one another.
SCHELE: Why? Too much like looking in a mirror?
THERRY: Yea, it's too boring. (Laughter) There's no adventure.
PETO: Well, on the other hand, if they're too different--
THERRY: Yea, if they're too different, you can't bridge the gap.
PETO: Sometimes I feel I'm always hesitating between something like, you know, coming back home, putting on my slippers, sit and have dinner cooked, you know, with love and affection --
THERRY: Usually if two people are so different, the only reason why they get together is because of sexual satisfaction.
PETO: Of what?
THERRY: Sexual satisfaction. Usually that's the only thing that brings them together. It's the only thing that's powerful enough to keep them together for just a few moments. Once the newness wears off then they separate.
PETO: Well some of the time we are attracted by this aspect of intrigue which is most expressed because it is related to sex and stuff like that. It gets tired.
THERRY: Yea, the newness wears off. That's why people play bedroom games to try to keep it going as much as they can. There's a lot of funnies that came out of bedroom games.
THERRY: Yea, funny circumstances. There was an ad in the paper a while back where the neighbors were hearing this old lady hollering for help, so somebody broke in to try to help, and here she was, she was all tied up in the bed, her husband was on the floor with a gash in his head, dressed up in a Superman suit. What he did is during their bedroom games, he usually plays the role of Superman, jumps on the bed, makes passionate love to her, unties her and frees her, only this time he slipped, fell, and hit his head. (Laughter) And the neighbors had to come in and rescue him.
PETO: I didn't get the end. What is the end?
THERRY: Well, the neighbors had to come in and rescue them. They took him to the hospital and he got about six or seven stitches on his head. So, there's a lot of amusing circumstances in bedroom games.
JIMMY: What about the times where you see that the behavior that you're dealing with, as opposed to what Pierre described which is something that Michele does all the time, and he needs to find a way to accept it, what about the times when you're dealing with a behavior that only comes up every now and then, and you just perceive of it as just --it will pass, and it's transient and it's just stupid but it gets your back up anyway.
THERRY: Now you're talking about that lemonade again.
JIMMY: It's so bitter. (Chuckles)
THERRY: Everything has a price. Nothing is perfect, nothing. After all, you have to bear in mind that you was attracted to that person, had to have been something there that attracted you, so now you have to decide, is it worth throwing that attraction away? So what if they're not perfect. ( BIG pause)
WAN: You see the `BUT'. (Chuckles) But--!
SCHELE: We both seem to have this, and you said it, like `spaces out', yea, I call it tunnel vision because you're doing something, and it's like an obsession or--
THERRY: Yea, circle of awareness.
SCHELE: Is that something we --you mean you make your own circle of awareness?
THERRY: Everybody does.
SCHELE: So then what makes some of us chose to narrow it in like that?
THERRY: A form of isolation. Gives us less to worry about.
SCHELE: Is that an alright thing to do? I mean, is it destructive?
THERRY: That is not part of the question, nor part of the answer. It's neither good nor bad; it simply is.
SCHELE: So, it could be like our own personal way of dealing with things.
SCHELE: Because letting more in would be too much.
THERRY: Too distracting.
SCHELE: Too distracting?
JIMMY: From what?
THERRY: From whatever it is you chose to think about.
SCHELE: Then people who don't do that, they're just not distracted?
THERRY: You can't make that as a blanket statement. It's a possibility that they have a greater ability for concentration, but it's also a possibility that they're more diffused so that these extra things don't bother them. There's no specific right or wrong way; just depends on the habits of the individuals.
JIMMY: Regardless of what it is, you still have to have that give and take to end up with eventually some kind of compromise, understanding.
THERRY: Yes. Sooner or later everybody has to deal with the needs of any situation.
PETO: But isn't there a major insanity problem when the thing that you don't want to be distracted of is washing the dishes.
THERRY: I really don't know how to answer that. Somebody, it's possible, they just don't like doing the dishes. Other people love doing the dishes. That's their way of finding rest. They concentrate on the mindless job of doing dishes, and that relieves them of care, and here we spoke of dishes in a comical way, but it's still apropos, and it doesn't matter if it's dishes; for some people it's just sweeping the floor; for some people it's some other mindless, or seemingly mindless thing to do. It's a way of relaxation. So while you said that in jest, it still has a valid point.
WAN: That's true. I mean, I hate doing dishes, but a lot of times when I'm doing things like dishes, my brain is working ninety miles an hour on thoughts in my head.
THERRY: Yea. Anytime an individual does seemingly mindless work, it's very good meditation time for them. And, for a lot of people, that's the time that they go into their most prized fantasies.
WAN: I'm feeling nervous, not afraid, but anxious, I guess, about moving. That's not the same kind of --
THERRY: It's not surprising.
WAN: It's not the same kind of fear thing, whereas if it's fear, you shouldn't do it--I mean, that's just a normal--
THERRY: It's not fear.
WAN: It's not fear?
THERRY: No. It's not fear in the sense of being afraid; it's fear in the sense of it's a whole new environment, whole new situation, whole new set of demands, whole new set of commitments. `What do I do if--?' It's that type of fear. Actually, it's a combination of two things. `What do I do if --' is only one side. The other side is `oh gee, that means now I'll have to--'. Commitments. So, it's a double-sided thing.
WAN: (laughing) Well, it's like, `what am I doing!?! What, are you crazy? What, are you nuts?!?'
PETO: I guess this idea of mind your own business applies to the fact that I feel kind of responsible for the fact that she's moving just, I will feel more responsible in case it doesn't work.
THERRY: I suppose you can have a lot of fun with that.
PETO: Okay. (Laughter) Bringing it back to the Master of Gravity, were you saying something or just having fun?
THERRY: Just having fun.