Arkashean Q&A Session -- 032

THERRY: All you have to do is ask the question.

CHARLES: Okay. So, what way can I have changed since last time? I have no idea.

THERRY: Well, the last time you were rather enamored with the possibilities of the spiritual world. Since then you and your other half have resolved a number of things so now you're thinking more along the lines of finding relative contentment in your world. Before those things were resolved you were more willing to entertain a possibility of making a radical change from your normal world. That's one of the areas. Secondly, because of the willingness to become more stable with your new love in your world, your-you don't have the same level of need to get so deeply into the spiritual world. You've discovered that it is possible for you to take care of the spiritual world without getting so closely involved with it. Therefore, the urgency that was there, the fascination that was there doesn't gnaw at you that much. The fact that you now have a new love that you feel rather comfortable with and that you've become cognizant that you depend on it more, that you're more willing to just lay back and relax and enjoy life. And basically that's it. That doesn't mean that you value anything less. It simply means that your needs, your desires are more settled into the normal world. And they're less settled in a monastery type setting. Before you had your new love and were willing to, for the lack of a better word, entertain the possibility of moving around the area so you could be closer but now that you have a more stable love affair, you're more willing to entertain the thoughts of doing what is necessary to bring the two of you closer in an area that you're already familiar with. So, where you're at over there is pretty stable. There's no need for you to go looking elsewhere. Because not only do you get your physical needs met, you get your emotional needs met, you get your psychological needs met, and you get the challenge of a fairly good economical situation. So, it's not necessary to look into it. Basically that's it.

CHARLES: You're talking about me and my other half? Other?

THERRY: The other other half that we're talking about.

CHARLES: 'There's no need to'...

THERRY: Does that answer your question?


THERRY: Satisfactory?


THERRY: Did I leave out anything?

CHARLES: Well, only you know.

THERRY: I don't think I left out anything, but I'm not in your head right now. (Laughter) It gets pretty crowded if both of us get in there.

JULIA: Is that to say then that the main thing that drives you to consider spirituality is when you're unstable?

THERRY: No. Can't make that as a blanket statement.

JULIA: Is that common?

THERRY: Yes. It is a common phenomenon that when people are unhappy because they're unfulfilled in various ways, then they start the process of feeling that there's got to be more to life that what I've got.

JULIA: Then it seems like Karma would have to cause unhappy things to-

THERRY: Not necessarily unhappiness. There's a difference between unhappiness and unfulfilled. A person can go through life being extremely contented but still be unfulfilled.

CHARLES: But still you said that's the only reason we change is that the pain gets big enough.



THERRY: Which means you can --in your case you will experience, I think is a good word, your new love affair until the time comes when you will realize that there's got to be more than just--there's more to life than just eating, fucking and socializing.


THERRY: And when that time comes then you will once more fire the spark towards spiritualism. In the meantime, you'll enjoy yourself rather well. You guys can be extremely contented with one another, once you go through the hard-core stuff.

CHARLES: This stuff about the pain, when the pain gets big enough you'll move, and you said, you call that the difference between-

THERRY: Being unhappy and being unfulfilled. They're different.

CHARLES: But the pain can come from your being unfulfilled?

THERRY: The pain can come; in this particular sense will always come from there.

CHARLES: Oh yeah?

THERRY: Because the feeling of being unfulfilled will leave you with the realization that it's empty. You'll sit there and you'll be very much in love with your lady, you'll sit there and you'll hold your lady in your arms but something in the back will say 'it's empty.' It doesn't have the very same zing as it used to have. It's empty.

CHARLES: Which means what? That you will want something more spiritual?

THERRY: No. Not necessarily. A lot of times people often go find other distractions.

CHARLES: It doesn't mean that it will end.

THERRY: No. There are many, many marriages that last for years and years and years but they're empty. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to break up. Because both parties can be very, very comfortable with what they have. It's just that it's empty. There's no passion in it, it's just...I'll roll over, she'll roll over. Alright. Let's go have breakfast.

CHARLES: When the couple reaches this stage--can he or she just stay together and go through the same thing together?

THERRY: It's possible, yes. If they both have the same idea of where they should and what they should go to. That's why so many people in the world get hung up on their religion. Because life after all becomes so empty to them so they turn to what their minister says God wants them to do thinking that that's going to make them fulfilled. Other people turn to their religion because they're afraid of the consequences of the things that they've done in their lives. They've got a guilty conscience.

CHARLES: When you talk about the couple reaching this stage of they're being no passion that is 95 percent of the couples involved.

THERRY: Yes. That's one of the good reasons, if you can all it good, why many couples have extramarital relationships. Because what they're involved in presently is empty.

SCHELLE: So passion is kind of distraction then?

THERRY: Well, it can be a distraction but it can also be extra seasoning to make something more important.

CHARLES: I understand that you can lose the passion but for me this doesn't mean automatically that it's empty. Even if you don't have this, it's still--the value of emptiness is not--

JIM: I guess it would depend on if that was the main reason why you were together. (Pause) Is there a reason that the number of people that are here in Florida that are students --that Tina and I are in Boston, Kim and Patro are in England--other than for our own personal reasons-I mean is there a bigger scheme of things where the Monastery is concerned?

THERRY: Yes. There is a reason.

JIM: Is it something you can speak about?

THERRY: Yes. It is a Karmic Law that to keep something you must give it away.

JIM: To keep something you must give it away?


CHARLES: I'm sorry-you're talking about this Karmic stuff?

THERRY: He asked if there's a reason and I said yes there's a reason why they're where they are, and he asked me if I wanted to speak about it and at that time I replied by saying, 'yes, in order to keep something you have to throw it away', then I turned my attention to the coffee. And now he's sitting there wondering what the hell am I talking about --what do you mean if you want to keep something you have to throw it away. At a time when you wanted or needed a goal, a way to...a possible route into the future that was more than what you had you asked for help from the Great Force. The Great Force sends you someone. Now it is time for you guys to return that same favor to somebody else.

CHARLES: Who is somebody else?

THERRY: You guys are in New York so that you can give what was given to you. Give somebody the opportunity. That's why there are some people who are coming around asking questions. It's your opportunity to give away what was given to you. And you can only give it under the same auspices that you received it. I didn't go running to you guys. As a matter of fact, I didn't contact you at all. Likewise, you cannot go running to them. You can't contact them. They have got to come to you in order to have you answer their questions. Don't convert in any form. Simply, freely give the information.

CHARLES: Are you talking about teachers?

THERRY: They have become teachers for those who ask them questions. They're LightWorker. They're dangling from one of the links of the Chain of the Great White Brotherhood.

JIM: You know when you say don't convert; it never occurs to me that it's a conversion.

THERRY: I know. That's why I say it.

SCHELLE: Do you mean when you're talking to somebody about it?

JIM: Yeah, because, like, I don't perceive converting-it's not like some 700 Club TV. Guy out there trying to make converts because he makes dollars or it-

SCHELLE: Oh, you mean it doesn't seem like conversion to you.

JIM: I have a negative connotation for that and I don't perceive of answering somebody's questions at all as a negative thing and I don't see where there's an ulterior motive. And I always have that concept of well; we're not looking for converts.

THERRY: But it's not limited to that. Conversion is not limited to that. If you're speaking with somebody and they're sharing their belief system with you and you end up saying 'no, that's wrong', that's conversion.


THERRY: That wasn't done for you guys. You shouldn't do it for others. Simply answer the question that they've asked. Pass no judgment of any kind.

JULIA: What if they're trying to convert you?

THERRY: Laugh at them. (Laughter)

SCHELLE: A lot of times when we're talking to people, the term 'guru' always comes up. And that name really bothers me.


SCHELLE: I don't know. Well, I guess I don't think of it as that.

THERRY: So what?

SCHELLE: I guess because to me the word guru has negative connotations to it. I don't know what to call you.

THERRY: Why not just call me Therry?

SCHELLE: People just start automatically using that word, 'oh, your guru.'

THERRY: There's a number of ways you can handle that. You could turn around and say, 'I suppose that's one way to call it.'

SCHELLE: I guess I feel, I don't know, like they're ready to dismiss it.

THERRY: Yeah, but why should that irk you? Who cares if they dismiss it? It's their loss.

SCHELLE: No, I just feel if I can explain it better-

THERRY: But, why? Think for a minute. If they were-first of all there's a possibility that they're not issuing malice. It's possible for them it's the same way of saying a 'oh you're seeing a special teacher.' Because a special teacher usually is guru.


THERRY: So that's the first possibility. The second possibility is if they are showing malice or disdain, then do you think by you arguing about the use of the word it's going to change their intentions or their thoughts? Or, perhaps, you're trying to do a little conversion of your own.

SCHELLE: I'm just not sure if I'm scaring them off by explaining it badly.

THERRY: It is an absolute fact that if someone is truly interested and if it is their time, you could only use half words and you wouldn't be able to scare them off. It is written 'knock and the door shall be opened. Seek and you shall find.' Remember only, if you seek your limitations, surely you will find them.

SCHELLE: You lost me again. It's like it's my fault, I explained it badly, or whatever. I'm responsible.

THERRY: Well, just think of how much fun you can have with that one. Have fun. Enjoy it.

SAN: But if you are trying to set the record straight on information that people have that isn't correct, is that conversion?

THERRY: It all depends on if you decide to bring the conversation up or if they decide to ask the question or not.

SAN: I was talking to Raj today, this guy from a company that believes in Buddhism, and he had really bad sinus problems. And he went to Buddhist priests, and they put him in this room for 3 days. It was pitch dark. They put some kind of lotion on his head and he said afterwards he never had any sinus problems. Then they took an x-ray years later and the doctor came and told him that his glands were not there. Is that a special kind of technique that you might be able to learn?

THERRY: Mm-hmm.

SAN: So what actually happened-did he have some kind of psychic energy or what?

THERRY: Let's change the subject.

SAN: Okay.

CHARLES: So, is that some kind of-

THERRY: Let's change the subject.

CHARLES: Oh, let's change the subject.

THERRY: There are things we just don't talk about.


SAN: Okay. That's good enough. I just wanted to know if it was valid.

THERRY: Well just because it may or may not be valid does not change the possibility that it could be a whole lot of malarkey. But that's beside the point.

CHARLES: A lot of mie-lar-kee?

SCHELLE: Bullshit.


THERRY: You know; donkey-poopy?

THERRY: A black hole is simply the concentration of space. It is simply (blank spot on the tape) time and space meet.

CHARLES: Okay, if you say in other terms there is no such vacuum, like, you're telling me that if you completely remove matter-

THERRY: You cannot. It's an impossibility. It's an impossibility to remove all matter.

CHARLES: You mean space is determined by what it contains? That's what it means.

THERRY: Something like that.

CHARLES: That's great. I never thought about it like that.

THERRY: See. Space is a still-shot of time. Space is time slowed down. You can't compress it, but it can compress itself via the winds of gravity.

CHARLES: That's great.

SCHELLE: You know scientists are starting to discover things like that. They're starting to realize what they thought was nothingness is actually something there.


CHARLES: So, E ='s M/C squared?

THERRY: It's very valid, but it's incomplete.

CHARLES: It's something that has to do with what we're talking about.

THERRY: Yes. One day some brilliant mind is going to come in and realize that the missing element of E = M/C squared is the square root of negative one.

CHARLES: The square root of negative one?


CHARLES: Oh, okay. Oh, forget it.

SAN: An imaginary number.

THERRY: Hmm-mm. It's not imaginary, it's only unknown.

SCHELLE: That's the rest of the formula, you mean?

THERRY: That's the missing element of e=mc squared called the unification theory.

SCHELLE: So how should it read? E=mc minus negative one squared or something?


SCHELLE: Where does the minus negative one come in to the?

THERRY: I didn't say it was minus negative one. I said it was the square root of negative one.

CHARLES: Okay. This is kind of a doozy concept for me. You know. Square root of negative one?

THERRY: Well, look at it this way. In the beginning time and space were 2 totally different dimensions, 2 different states of Creation. Then something happened. How it happened and why it happened don't matter. Okay. Let's call it a Great Force. Time and space were wrapped around one another so tightly that they merged. They melded. So that their relative surfaces or borders fused such that time became the borders of space and space became the borders of time. Such that time slowed down to a degree that it was capable of becoming an envelope to allow residences in space. Space, on the other hand, came under the control of the elements of time, and thus you have the active force of time and the passive force of space. Each uniting to form the bubble of illusion within which matter came into being as the fusion of those two. But, like any other fusion not all elements of the continuum were used. Some were discarded. That part which was discarded became the continuum of energy, which gathered itself into the physical universe. But before it manifest to a state of density to be called physical, there was a few things it had to go through. There is an element there that is physical yet is not physical. Matter, but yet still energy. There was that in-between state. And that in-between state is the state of fusion. The state of combining and recombining that made matter itself possible. The Law, which governs it, is the creation of the one is in and of itself the implication of the creation of the other. At that self-same moment change came into being within the physical universe, as we know it. In it's very early, early state. That is the Grand Unified Theory that they're looking for. This beginning, this birth, change is the point we call frequency. That's the missing element in e= mc squared. That's the square root of minus one. It's change itself --not doubt, though. But frequency, the continuum of change. And the laws, which govern them. It's not the presence or the absence of change; it is the force behind it. That is the square root of negative one. Because within the square root of negative one are the zones --Uhh, if you assume zero is the state of matter as we know it to be physical through it's density, then you have negative zero and positive zero. That's the point of change. That's where both an object exists both in time and in space but yet not it space as we know it and not under the control of time as we know it. Hence they call it the imaginary state. But it such that space can never be empty, never. Because space is in and of itself matter. Its smallest component part is matter even though the matter is still in an energy form it is still matter. And there are certain other forms of matter, which are non-gaseous from our present point of view, which coincide within that space. Proton is one of them. (I think it's proton, not sure. Correct?)

CHARLES: So, can the speed of light change according to the medium it's traveling through as sound can?

THERRY: Yes. The speed of light is always changing depending on the--the thing that science is teaching you is that--they're not saying that the speed of light does not change. They're saying that the ratio between the speed of light and the gravity mass around which it moves is constant. And, because the ratio between those 2 are constant, then you can say that the speed of light is constant throughout the universe. But, in fact it's not, even though the ratio is constant, light itself travels at different speeds depending upon the gravity mass that it surrounds. But because of the constancy of the ratio, you can say that the speed of light is the same everywhere.

CHARLES: I don't get this idea. The mass that the light is surrounding. We see the light of these stars here-

THERRY: No, now you're talking about protons. You're not talking about the gravity mass. Let's say you have--

CHARLES: That's what I was talking about. I was talking about light.

THERRY: Yeah. You're talking about protons. Let's say you have a planet such as planet Earth. Well, the gravity mass, not gravity, but gravity mass from the planet Earth is much smaller than the gravity mass of let's say, Saturn. Okay? Now, there are 3 things involved here and it's important to be able to distinguish them. There's light traveling independent of gravity. Then there's the gravity affecting light then there's the ratio between the 2. Okay? Now, light itself will travel at different speeds depending on the gravity mass. But that ratio is the same, it's like pi. It doesn't matter what size the circle is, the ratio around is going to be the same. That's the way light works. If you had a phenomenon where you are capable of distinguishing or utilizing light independent of its gravity mass, then you travel at different speeds. And relative to that speed can determine not only the size of your form but it can also determine your past, present or your future. Because time is controlled by gravity, or gravity-mass rather than gravity. Because time in and of itself is a gravity wave. Within which a bubble of space exists. Okay?

CHARLES: I wouldn't agree with that. (Laughter)

SCHELLE: I concur.

THERRY: Right. You can see many of the, uhh; there are certain things that science has been discovering today that indicates that what I just said is valid. There are proofs. For instance, they've had the experience where they've had 2 atomic clocks and they put them side by side and they watch one another and the 2 clocks stay exact in respect to one another. Then they took one of the clocks and they moved it up to a 10 or 20 story building or a high building and then suddenly they realized that the 2 clocks are running at different speeds. So, they took the clock and put it higher still and they discovered that the higher they put the clock, the slower it ran.

CHARLES: Which means?

THERRY: Which means that time speeds up when it is close to a gravity-mass. It's like a slingshot effect. And time in the outer spaces away from gravity-mass slows down. That was the basics behind Einstein's theory of relativity.

SCHELLE: What is it?

THERRY: Depending upon the speed of light that you're in, if you followed just pure theory, and not reality or not illusion it is conceivable that you can leave a spot of space-time and come back younger. Or, at least--

SCHELLE: Not have aged.

THERRY: Right.

SCHELLE: I tried to read the Tao of Physics. Toward the end I couldn't understand it. It got really technical. It was written by a group of people who are comparing things they were studying in science about that kind of stuff and relating to this ancient kind of Eastern type philosophy. And they said there was this one experiment that they did that the only way they could explain what happened is that particular molecule traveled backward in time. I mean, they couldn't explain it any different than that.

THERRY: Yes. Mm-hmm. That happens a lot in this reality. Things going back in time. Far more than the world realizes.

CHARLES: What do you mean for example?

THERRY: Time-travel.

CHARLES: Are you saying that time travel happens much more frequently than-

THERRY: That you're aware of, yes.

CHARLES: What is this able to travel --

THERRY: Various molecules are capable of traveling because they are outside the effects of time. Various frequencies can travel because they are outside the effect of time. Certain mind-force abilities are also capable of spanning time.

CHARLES: You seem to distinguish between the light coming from the star, which is protons coming here, and the light as I can see it here.

THERRY: Yes, there's a difference.

CHARLES: Okay. So to come back to this starting point, which was, can you--is there continuum between the sounds that we can hear and the fact that we can see color--is this still the vibration of air?


CHARLES: Of air?

THERRY: Let's say a vibration. Let's not say a vibration of air. Let's just say a vibration because red is going to look red to you no matter if you look at it via a medium of water, medium of air, a medium of the gasses. Red is still going to be red to you simply because it's a specific vibration.

CHARLES: Yeah. Frequency.

THERRY: Yeah. Right.

CHARLES: You say it's a vibration of matter.

THERRY: Matter, yes. But then even space itself is matter, so...better not to say matter. To just say specific the vibration of a specific frequency.

CHARLES: Oh okay. But, there are still things to distinguish because, uhh...

THERRY: You don't realize this but much of the things you see you see only because your eyes are constantly vibrating back and forth. If it wasn't for the fact that your eyes are constantly vibrating back and forth, you wouldn't be able to see.

CHARLES: Okay. I still need to distinguish, because, uhh, the light is able to travel through even this emptiness, which is space, therefore, matter. Because the sound is not able, is it just a matter of amplitude, or-

THERRY: That's not true. Frequency travels through space.

CHARLES: Yes. Not sound.

THERRY: Light, well, again, by definition if there's a human out there listening they will hear something. But I don't think they'll hear it for very long because I don't think they can live out there. But they will hear something because there is sound up there. You can take a tape recorder and put it in deep space and have it send back what it hears and you will hear something.

SCHELLE: Could it be just like a decibel that ranges out of the human decibels but still it's sound frequencies --it's just-

THERRY: I mean that you'll also hear quite a bit of stuff that is within the human ear capabilities.

CHARLES: Oh, so you're telling me even the relative emptiness of space sound is moving?

THERRY: There is a disturbance within the medium that fills that space which, part of which you can hear.

CHARLES: Okay. So, how come part of which you can hear--and light, the full spectrum is going to be-

THERRY: No. Not the full spectrum is reaching us. Only parts of it.

CHARLES: Then the difference between the range that we see here and you see the portion that you have due to the relative emptiness it's traveling through--the sound will be different-

THERRY: Yes. But the frequency will be the same.

CHARLES: Oh, frequency. I sound would travel more than light would.


CHARLES: Crossing this relative emptiness.

THERRY: No. Not true, because light candles.

CHARLES: Candles?

THERRY: Did you ever point a flashlight?


THERRY: As it gets further away from the source it gets wider and wider and wider. Until it's so dissipated that you can't see anything.


THERRY: It candles.

CHARLES: Oh, sound. Sound does the same thing.

THERRY: Sound does the same thing.

SCHELLE: But light travels farther than sound.


SCHELLE: No. I guess only what we can perceive.

THERRY: Light bounces around the contents of the universe and so does sound. So you can't say one travels further. Because they all dissipate. They all candle.

SCHELLE: Is it just that our eyes are more sensitive to pick up more than our ears are or something?


CHARLES: Well, and, I'm glad it's so. If you could hear as much sound--if we could compare it--if you could see light--forget it you'd never sleep. What if images enabled you to hear this star? What about the star that you already hear?

SCHELLE: I never thought about that.

THERRY: It's called threshold levels.

CHARLES: That's the one I know.

THERRY: Yes. Whoever created the human body was a pretty good musician.

SCHELLE: You mean light is a sound? Is that what you mean?

CHARLES: No, no, no.

SCHELLE: A vibration?

CHARLES: a definition of a sound is range in frequency between 20 hertz and 20 kilohertz. And also range in amplitude. Which is what you call from zero dd/spm to the ratio of what you recognize as sound up to 120-30, which becomes 'h' and then--

THERRY: Painful.

SCHELLE: And light is out of those ranges, is that what you mean?

CHARLES: As a frequency in terms of frequencies, light I guess, visible light, well, it starts--

SCHELLE: But does it have a sound though? It's just that we can't pick it up?



CHARLES: Well, the sound if you can hear it--

THERRY: Everything that vibrates does have a sound. Up to and including the atoms that make up your body.

SCHELLE: Wow. Everything has a sound then.

THERRY: Absolutely everything.

CHARLES: Well, if it's within the range of frequency.

THERRY: No, regardless. It still has a sound.

SCHELLE: It has a sound. We just can't hear it.

THERRY: And the problem is we haven't discovered a mechanism that is sensitive enough to pick it up. But everything has a noise to it.

CHARLES: Oh, a noise. Okay. Light is noise.

SCHELLE: Yeah, that's what I mean.

CHARLES: So, that's what she said the other day.

THERRY: You also have to bear in mind what you call visible light, or the band of visible light is not static. There are some life forms whose bands of visible light is much greater than what most people are.

SCHELLE: We only see a limited part?

THERRY: We only see a very limited part. But there are some life forms who can see two and three times as much as the average individual.

CHARLES: The ultraviolet, the infrared, stuff like that you mean?

THERRY: They can see more than that.

CHARLES: Even more than that? Well, it, the thing comes from this sound that we can talk about-this noise and sound.

THERRY: Did you ever sit and watch a cat?

SCHELLE: Uh-huh.


THERRY: Have you ever watched a cat?

CHARLES: Yeah. Somewhat.

THERRY: They have a visible sound band that's extremely large.

CHARLES: You're not talking about ratios? You're talking about frequencies?


CHARLES: Oh, yeah? You mean they can see ultraviolet, infrared, and even--

THERRY: Much more than that.

CHARLES: Oh, yeah?

THERRY: They can see, for the lack of a better term, if you were able to see that you would say that you're looking at spirits. Life forms that inhabit the same space that you cannot see, because their frequency is on such a different level.

CHARLES: How come when you hear stories about ghosts and stuff like that, you know, like TV series and that, they will always have figures of cats around to freak out? Is it because they can see?

THERRY: They can see ghosts.

CHARLES: And what about the dogs?

THERRY: Some of them can see it, and can hear it. Some humans can see it, too.

CHARLES: This is light, and visible light because of the noise, we don't see noise, and then sound which is the range--

THERRY: Okay. But what happens, what about those individuals whose range of sound and vision is so much greater? What about that part that they see that others don't see? Wouldn't you still call that sound?

CHARLES: Uhh, I'm trying to keep the definitions that we had at the beginning. I wouldn't call that sound.

THERRY: You wouldn't? You mean they're not human? Because they have a much greater range, that means they're not human.

CHARLES: Well, no. There are exceptions, I guess.

THERRY: Yeah, but what's that do to the definition?

CHARLES: The definition --I give up.

THERRY: That's why when you put a definition with respect to sound and light; you usually qualify it by saying 'under most circumstances.' The average.

CHARLES: Yeah. So, what is the definition of sound in the dictionary?

THERRY: Why don't you look it up? Usually they have a reference to the human ear.

CHARLES: The usual, you mean?

THERRY: They usually have a reference to the human ear. This is happening as the human ear hears it. Therefore, if you ask yourself the question if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it, is there a sound. The answer is no. There may be a disturbance in the atmosphere, but there is no sound.

SCHELLE: That's by the definition of sound.

THERRY: By the definition. Obviously, there's a noise. There is no sound.

CHARLES: I guess audible noise is it-

THERRY: Yeah. But audible by what?

CHARLES: Do you know what the frequency of red light is? Where does it start? In what range?

THERRY: I've got the information somewhere, but I don't remember it right off-hand. Red light is usually the longest waves.

CHARLES: Yes, it's the lowest. So, where does it start, the visible part to human eyes? The average human eyes?

THERRY: The average human eyes, yeah. I don't know. I've got that information somewhere.

CHARLES: Space is matter. What a concept.

THERRY: Any place that you can travel to have to have something in it. Otherwise, you can't be there. A mind-force cannot exist in a state of nothingness. And, yet, mind-force can exist in space, therefore space must be matter.

CHARLES: There is such a thing as nothingness?

THERRY: No. Only in concept. Understand that you're going back to the original duality. The Presence and the Absence. The only, the only condition under which you can have an absolute nothingness is within the area of the Absence. Within this known universe, we are under the influence of the Presence. And within the Presence there can be no configuration where there is nothing there.

CHARLES: What was one of these first laws we were talking about, that each is a dual in its nature?

THERRY: Okay. The very first Law states that the creation of the one is in and of itself the implication of the other. That's the first law. The second Law states that that which exists shall be dual in its nature but triune in its effects. The duality is the Presence and the Absence. That's the first dual path. And that gets back to the area of e=mc squared. Because the original creation was that of energy. It is energy, which began, and it is the Great Force, which created frequency as the energy change because of the first Law.

CHARLES: Are you opposing energy and mind-force?

THERRY: Mind-force is energy. Energy was long before mind-force came into being.

CHARLES: In what form?

THERRY: We never discussed form. Mind-force is for the lack of a better term you could easily say it is a combination of something else plus frequency.

CHARLES: Because-

THERRY: The duality there became life force, mind-force. Hence you have animation, both with and without intelligence. One is animation by Law. The other is animation by free will. Or, animation by volition.


THERRY: Volition. Free will. The right of choice. On the one side where it's animation by Law, there is no free will. There's simply cause and effect. From pure Law. That is the part, which is real. Animation via volition brings in a new element. Illusion. And that is the part, which is not real. You get the combination of the 2 acting together and you end up with reality. Intelligence. Awareness.

CHARLES: I guess it goes back to a box within a box within a box.

THERRY: Yes. It's a box within a box within a box.

CHARLES: This world, in some way it's real. And you're talking about it, referring to it as an Illusion.

THERRY: Well, again, now you're having reference to which level of the box.


THERRY: Because each level of the box shares that space, for the lack of a better term, with many other boxes.

CHARLES: I'm just looking at everything in a different, new way. This idea of time and space just emerging --makes me feel like. And also my question is how come organic stuff--what need has there the life force to come and be a part of this like this. You know I was thinking about cells being formed, separating,

THERRY: Obviously it's for following the directives of a mind-force. Equally, it's obvious, if we sit back on another level and ask ourselves what's the purpose of thought, well, then you could simply say thought is the mind-force, or the result of the mind-force actively governing the creation of ourselves and our environment. So, if on a higher box level you decide to create a vehicle within which you descend so that you can experience a more gross state of being then that answers your questions. You have to create somehow. Well, on this low level it is molecules coming together that are being governed by your thoughts. The thoughts, which come from a higher level.

CHARLES: The thing is that the, uhh, okay, the spirit for each individual, it goes down into the body?

THERRY: They're the Ba.

CHARLES: Okay. Does this, the Ba decide to go down and experiment in each of the--

THERRY: Depends on the degree of volition.

CHARLES: The degree of?

THERRY: Volition. Free will. Some people are directed solely by the Alliance of the Rule. Others are have more free will.

CHARLES: Talking about the second box, right?

THERRY: Yes. With reference to this level.


THERRY: The box within which you survive the death process on this level.

CHARLES: Okay. You mean the different reincarnations would be the first box?

THERRY: Yes, reincarnation is the first box. The part that goes from one to the other is the second one who keeps descending into the first box. You have the first box who dies and is born, dies and is born. That's the first box.


THERRY: So long as they're in the process of life. Now the second box is when the part from the second box gets out of the first box-you call that death-and goes into the first box. That's called birth.

CHARLES: You mean between each lifetime you jump up and then come down again?

THERRY: Yes. That's what reincarnation is all about. The second box moves down into the first box and we call that life. So as it keeps jumping up and down we call that the cycles of life and death. Because the first level of boxes is our physical body. The second level of boxes is our Ba. The third box up is our divine Ka.

CHARLES: Haven't you been talking about 8 boxes, 8 levels?

THERRY: Nine. Of the Earth experience there are 9 levels of the boxes.

CHARLES: Okay, I'm asking crazy questions again. This stuff about time and space melting together. Does this concern the Ba, too?

THERRY: No. That's way, way much higher than the Ba.

CHARLES: That's higher than the Ba?


CHARLES: You mean the Ba still lives within the-

THERRY: Yes. The Ba, even the Divine Ka lives inside of that merged bubble. We call it the Maya.

CHARLES: Within the merged bubble of the Maya?


CHARLES: But this--

THERRY: Much, much, much higher than the Ba.

CHARLES: This melting of time and space, this is the universe as we know it here?

THERRY: A little higher.

CHARLES: Hmm. I don't think I understood this with the context of the first box.

THERRY: Okay. Let's change our numbering system for a minute.


THERRY: Instead of having the physical body the first box let's say the highest Ba instead of the lowest, okay. Let's say the first one was the creation of--once having passed through the double-gate of reality, that's the first one. It's called a dimension. Let's call the second box the box of Universes. So, if you go back up to the first box, the dimension, the box of the dimensions Ba contains many, many, many different dimensions. Okay? So then let's say you choose one dimension out of many in that box and you enter it. Okay. Now, you'll discover that you've entered into a universal box. In this box there are many universes. Okay?

CHARLES: Mm-hmm.

THERRY: Now we'll choose one of them called the carbon universe and we'll descend into that. Now while we chose to descend into the carbon universe, there are still some universes whose building blocks might be, for instance, silicon. Others may be copper. But we use chose carbon. Now, science thinks that carbon only comes as a ring but it doesn't, it also comes as a ball, not too far from, not unlike a geodesic dome, but they're due to discover that pretty soon. So, we chose the carbon universe. Now, inside carbon universe we discover that it's filled with galaxies. Okay?

CHARLES: Ah. Okay.

THERRY: So now we'll choose one galaxy, and into that box. Suddenly you find inside that galaxy that box is filled with star systems. We'll choose one star system and move into that box. Now suddenly you discover that that box is filled with solar systems. Okay?

CHARLES: Mm-hmm.

THERRY: We'll choose only one solar system and enter that box. And now we find that that solar system is filled with planetary systems. We'll choose one planet and we'll come on it. We'll call that planet Earth. Now the systems starts all over again only now it's with different life forms. Different forms of creation. Different environments. Different life forms who live under different environments, etc., etc. Repeating the original pattern in a different way.

CHARLES: No wonder there are people outside.

THERRY: It's a box within a box within a box. Now the melding together of time and space came into being on the dimensional level.

CHARLES: So, this is about the third box you're talking about-


CHARLES: The universe, the melting of the-

THERRY: Time and space was on the first box. The dimensional level.

CHARLES: Oh, okay.

THERRY: That's the outer ring. If you figure each box is likened unto a ring, well, inside there is many other rings or a box within a box within a box. So, the outside of the big box is where time and space melded together. Everything else happened inside that melding together.

CHARLES: This is beginning to be quite interesting, this time and space melding.

THERRY: Yes, yes. Outside the illusion. Outside Maya. Mind-force can travel there. That is the status called Orthodontiks.

CHARLES: Can we go far beyond these boundaries?

THERRY: No. The highest man can go and remain man is Orthodontiks. And, it's almost impossible to reach that level. Normally, it's forbidden to go outside the universe that you're in. You're usually limited to the respective universe that you're in.


THERRY: When you start going into alien universes then you meet anti-matter. Or you can start a chemical reaction that would be unreal. (Questions that you can meditate on are: How mind force can have physical properties that could start a chemical reaction. It 's the same thing with the Now zone--you can have emotions, which are chemical in nature, but you're body isn't there. What is the Ba made of? Does it have electrons and protons, noise,--is it physical? Is mind-force limited by physical nature? Do we have different successive physical natures just to act as veils to the mind-force? Does being made of different elements, say carbon versus silicon, affect the emotions, the experiences a life form would have? Iis the carbon world strictly for emotions? What would the silicon world be? Does man go through all the elements, universes in order to fully experience human-ness? Why are we separated in this manner?) You, being primarily carbon can cause such a catalytic reaction into another dimension it's usually prevented. Placental type barriers usually won't allow the free travel via different basic elements. The same way as this universe is primarily carbon there are universes who are based on other things, and there's a very strict placental type barrier between the two.


THERRY: Even the beings that are vibrating on a different frequency, such as the people we would call disincarnate, they're still carbon-based. Even though their carbon form is spherical in nature as opposed to ring.

CHARLES: Ringed is ghost?

THERRY: What you would call ghosts, yeah.

CHARLES: Somehow to talk about all that makes me feel good. I think that to look at it this way--I feel like a pipsqueak, but still-

THERRY: Yes, it's a very interesting subject.

CHARLES: And, it's funny because usually, I mean, Wan and Pete, I mean, found it such a bore. And I completely understand it all and more, coming through the angle of physics, I completely enjoy it. I enjoy learning about reincarnation, ghosts, spiritual things when they are taught to him using physics.