Arkashean Q&A Session -- 040

SHELIA: Various people like Kristnamurti and other people, Eastern religions; they say that every thought is a reality.

THERRY: That is true.

SHELIA: Now, what I wanted to know is--

THERRY: But it's not on the physical.

SHELIA: Right, but, like, Seth, for instance, he says, you think--let's say one of the thoughts you had in life is to become a doctor, then you change your mind and become something else, he said, on some other level then, you are living out the life of a doctor because you thought it. Is this true?

THERRY: Well, he's talking about the concept of a parallel existences where look at it like you have a hundred billion zillion piano rolls all playing at the same time, and each piano roll is a different life. You have enough of them so that every possible combination of yes/no questions are represented, and because you go through them only once, supposedly you live only once, but you live all possibilities all at once. So therefore on at least one of those multiple levels, yea, you're a doctor, but you're also everything else you could possibly be all on different realities.

SHELIA: So that goes for every thought we have? I mean, when we say, oh, I could kill that guy.

THERRY: Well, that's the concept that you're talking about; I didn't say that's the way it was.

SHELIA: That's what Seth is talking about?

THERRY: That's what Seth is talking about. He's talking about that concept. Where you go through this reality only once, but you do it on so many differing levels all at the same time that on some reality you're living the life of practically anything. A doctor, a lawyer, an Indian chief, a whatever. On some life you're living one that way.

SHELIA: But the awareness is not necessarily as strong there?

THERRY: Yea, the awareness for its level is just as strong as the present awareness for this level. It's just that the veils of forgetfulness don't allow communication between levels. You haven't walked the path of the Grand Awakening, and therefore you're only aware of one level.

SHELIA: Okay, so, if I think, "Oh, I could kill that guy!!" Am I killing him on some level because I had the thought form?

THERRY: Whether you're saying it or not, on some level you are. Using that philosophy.

SHELIA: Wait, the philosophy of what?

THERRY: Multiple existences.

JACK: So, now, what do you think of it? `Cause you said this is what he's talking about. You didn't say that's the way it is.

THERRY: Yea, I don't believe in it exactly that way. Arkasheans believe that while there is multiple existence, time and space is telescopic, so that time, as we know it, doesn't exist. You create time as a facet of reality. So, because it's telescopic, if you need, if your Karma demands that you have a happening, let's say in the seventeenth century, well, you will go to the seventeenth century to experience whatever it is that you need, then if in your next life your karmic debt demands that you be in 3004, then you will go to 3004 time zone and have your experience. But within each experience there is a barrier, which under normal circumstances prevents the pilgrim from knowing that he's bouncing around through eternity.

GLENNA: Seth said something like that all your reincarnational lives, it's all being done at once?

THERRY: Yes. That's the philosophy that we were just talking about. He's saying all of those are happening all at once. It's not a chronological thing. It's happening all at once. That requires that you accept that time, as we know it doesn't exist. Time is not chronological; it simply is. Which is fine and dandy except that--well, basically there isn't a lot of difference between Seth's philosophy of all at one time, and ours of telescopic, in that we believe that the awareness factor keeps jumping around.

GLENNA: Yea, that's what he says, that you just focus on different time periods, different times.

THERRY: The only basic difference is that if you go through your whole life cycle on level one, and then later on, you go through on level two, then you go through on level nine, then you go back to level four, well that makes it difficult to accept that everything is going on all at once.

GLENNA: Right.

THERRY: So that's the basic difference between the Seth philosophy, and Arkashean philosophy. In the Arkashean philosophy, time is not chronological; it's not serial, and it's not parallel. Time is limited to the respective envelope of reality, which the happenings are occurring. And the time factor of one alter-reality need not be in step, for the lack of a better term, with any other time zone. Like music has different beats, so does time. Depends upon the reality that you're in. And depending upon the reality that you're in, the limitations of the laws that govern that reality also change.

GLENNA: So, I don't quite understand still how different the idea of--he calls it psychological time, you just focus psychologically --

THERRY: Well, psychological time exists on all levels; it's simply depends upon which level the prime focus is on at the moment. If an individual walks the path of the Grand Awakening, where the veils between levels are lifted, and they remember the happenings of more than one life at one time, then it becomes even more apparent that time and space are telescopic, in and of themselves, they don't exist intrinsically; they depend upon the reality which governs them.

GLENNA: So that's basically the same thing then.

THERRY: No, well, there's an awful lot of parallel thought, but you can't say it's basically the same, because in the Seth philosophy, everything is happening all at once; in the Arkashean philosophy, it's not happening all at once simply because time and space doesn't exist; it's an illusion that is governed by the--it's a creation of a reality. Time and space is created at the same time the reality level itself is created. So, because it's not intrinsic, all the way across all creations, then we call it an illusion. It's just one more governing prop of a reality.

JACK: I think if I remember well, you said that we are waiting for everybody to go up. So we're waiting; if you're waiting, it requires the notion of time, right? If time doesn't exist --

THERRY: I didn't say that time and space didn't exist; I said that it doesn't exist intrinsically. It does exist, but it is a creation of the reality that governs it; which is a seeming misnomer, because, in fact, it is time and space, which governs the reality, but during the creation of the reality, time and space is also created along with the creation of that illusion. When you go to alter-realities, and you are very familiar with them, very quickly you discover that time and space are not synchronous. Time and space here don't follow the same subset of laws as time and space would on another dimension or another level or another reality. It is the magpie effect that makes it possible to have the differing times and differing spaces. That's why you have biological time, psychological time, sidereal time, galactic time, etc., etc., etc. Every level of time has its own subset of rules, which governs it.

GLENNA: But the idea of telescopic time, how is that different--your reincarnational lives, they're not being lived all at once? In the same sense that we--

THERRY: Well, see, in his philosophy, it's all happening at one time, and all you're really--

GLENNA: He says there's only the present; there's no past and future.

THERRY: Right. Well, that's all fine and dandy providing you follow the philosophy that you're only going to have one life, and that's somewhat what Christianity thinks. So there's an indication that maybe Seth is somewhat pretty well connected to--

GLENNA: Oh no, he says that, in fact, that's the exact opposite of what he's saying, that that isn't the end-all, that there isn't just one life.

THERRY: Well, if he says that all parallelism, all is created at the same time, and all lives are lived all at one time, then that's the seed of what much later became the Christian philosophy of you only live one life, and then you're judged. Which was, I believe the origination of that was a corruption of the old religions of Egypt where Amen-Re became the state god; I believe that was the origination of that philosophy where all lives are lived all at once in parallel universes or parallel realities.

GLENNA: And that's different from the concept of the telescopic time?

THERRY: Yea, totally different in that, in the telescopic time, you can't claim that all lives are occurring all at one time, simply because time and space are totally different, depending on the level.

GLENNA: Well, not all lives, but all reincarnational lives, what he calls the--

THERRY: Well, all reincarnations are different lives. They are all different lives. I mean, if you were born and lived in 1829, and you were born again in 1432, and you were born again in 3000 B.C., well, you're all born on the same physical level, so it's pretty difficult to accept that all of them all lived at one time, when you have different time periods. There's a seeming inconsistency. In telescopic time, it makes it possible, but then you can't say you live it all at once. In other words, it's not chronological.

GLENNA: Right.

THERRY: With telescopic time, life is not chronological. You can't say that you're born, you live, you die, and you're born again, and you live, and you die, and you're born again, and you live; see, you can say that if you accept that there is telescopic time. But, in the Seth philosophy, you don't do that. You're not born, you don't live, and you don't die. You do the whole thing all at one time, and that's it. So basically, you only have one life, and you live that one life on all levels all at one time.

GLENNA: And that's not what telescopic time means?


GLENNA: Doesn't it mean it's all at the same time?

THERRY: How can it be all at the same time if your time era is 1925, 3054, or 3000 B.C.? Those are not the same time.

GLENNA: No, those aren't the same --

THERRY: But they're all at the same level.

GLENNA: So, I don't understand what the telescopic thing--I thought that's what the telescopic thing meant. That it was all happening at once.

THERRY: But it's not happening all at once.

GLENNA: I thought that you would just focus your attention on this point--

THERRY: No, you move through time and space.

GLENNA: So time is chronological then?

THERRY: Time is one long tunnel; it's like a filmstrip where each frame in a film is a reality, and everything else are the borders of time. Space is a still-shot of time; time is moving space. As you puddle-jump from one life to another, you simply go from one frame of the filmstrip to the other. The death process is simply the process of going across the time barrier where you go from one frame to the next.

GLENNA: So that's chronological then, or linear.

THERRY: It doesn't have to be. The filmstrip is, but you don't have to puddle-jump to the next frame; you can puddle-jump three thousand frames in one direction, or four thousand in another direction, or just the next frame. That's what makes it not chronological.

GLENNA: But it is linear then?

THERRY: If you use the analogy of a film strip, there is a linearity to it in terms of numbering your frames, but in the Arkashean philosophy, you're not limited to experiencing one frame at a time. In the Arkashean philosophy, you can skip frames.

GLENNA: Well, in that case, doesn't it mean that all the frames are existing at the same time?

THERRY: If you want to use the philosophy of a filmstrip, how can you say it's existing all at the same time? If you are in frame number one, then for you, frame number two, three, four and five hasn't even come into creation yet.

GLENNA: Well, in your awareness, but in actual fact it is--they are --I mean, it is existing?

THERRY: No. That's why the Universe is still unfolding. It's still in the form of being created.

SHELIA: So the lives that we've all lived, each, you know, our own lives, each of us, are not going on right now? I thought they were all going on right now, but we're only aware of this one right now. Are they going on right now?


SHELIA: So they are going on.

THERRY: But they're not all going on within the same time.

SHELIA: But on some level they're going on?

THERRY: On some level they're going on. The same way as right here, right now, in some past time, there's probably all water. This same piece of space at some past time, was probably ten, twenty feet under water.

SHELIA: And it still is?

GLENNA: And it still is?

THERRY: In that time; not in this time.

SHELIA: But okay, so, let's say I was a barber in the eighteen hundreds.

THERRY: In the eighteen hundreds you were and still are a barber.

SHELIA: Still are. So --

THERRY: In the eighteen hundreds. Obviously the eighteen hundreds don't stay static; time marches on. So eighteen hundreds become nineteen hundreds, which become two thousand, which becomes twenty-one hundred. It doesn't stay eighteen hundred.

SHELIA: Well, is there a part of me still in the eighteen hundreds?


SHELIA: There isn't. A part of me, an awareness?


SHELIA: There isn't.

THERRY: No. There was, but there isn't. See that's the basic difference. In the Seth philosophy where everything occurs all at one time, the eighteen hundreds is still occurring.

BLAKE: How do you account for the fact that you can go back to the eighteen hundreds and see yourself?

THERRY: Because you can travel through time.

BLAKE: But she's no longer there.

THERRY: She will if she travels back.

BLAKE: But she will see herself as an eighteen hundreds person, right?

THERRY: She will relive the eighteen hundreds, yes.

BLAKE: Will there be only one of her there?

THERRY: Yes, the same way there was only one of her when she was there once before.

BLAKE: She will automatically be a barber?


GLENNA: Oh, so I always thought you could meet up with your other reincarnational selves on different levels, like on dream states and stuff so that's not a true thing?

THERRY: No, it's against the laws of creation; you can't have an immutable object contact an immovable force. It just doesn't exist.

GLENNA: On another level, like in dream states or--

THERRY: You still can't do it. You can't deny the laws of creation.

JOHN: The difference is, would it be that if Sue had the ability to go back to eighteen hundred--

THERRY: She would relive whatever it was she did in the eighteen hundreds.

JOHN: But she would be aware that she's reliving it?

THERRY: That all depends on her limitations.

JOHN: But if she developed those limitations, that would be the difference. She would be aware of the fact that she had shifted her awareness?

THERRY: Well, that's the whole idea of the walk of the Grand Awakening, to remove the barriers.

JOHN: But chances are, in eighteen hundred she wasn't aware of that ability because the future hadn't happened yet.


JOHN: Likewise, past lives, is actually a proper term; because you haven't had future lives yet.

THERRY: Right.

GLENNA: You can't just go back and view the past then? It's not there anymore?

THERRY: Time don't work that way.

JOHN: You have to go back and participate.

THERRY: Right. You got to remember, by the laws of creation, the future takes into account everything that has happened in the past. So you can't just go back and change something in order to change the future. That don't work.

KIT: You say you can't view the past?

THERRY: Not in the sense she's talking about. You can relive it, but you can't view it.

KIT: Wait a minute.

GLENNA: Oh yea, `cause I thought before we had said you can't live the same past life exactly over again; it's going to be--

THERRY: No, that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about the what/if scenario that karmic debt allows you to go back to the same life situation and make the opposite choice that you had made before in order to correct a karmic debt, but in so doing, you don't follow the same time you're following a different time line.

JOHN: So you're not really going back to relive it; you're going forward to relive it.



THERRY: It appears that way, but you're really going back.

JOHN: So time continues to progress, so as far as human understanding--

THERRY: Time keeps going forward, yes.

BLAKE: There's no place where time runs backwards.

THERRY: Correct. In any reality time does not run backwards.

BLAKE: To view yourself in another time?

THERRY: You don't.

BLAKE: What are you doing?

THERRY: You're playing an old tape, a recording of yourself. You can't meet yourself and interact with yourself in a different time zone.

KIT: You can just observe?

THERRY: Well, it depends on the Grand Awakening; you can remove barriers where the two physicals come under the dominion of one mind.

BLAKE: So now you're saying that there can be two physical yous in a time zone.

THERRY: But they all follow one mind. You can have as many as a trillion bodies, but there can only be one mind. You can have as many bodies as you want in as many different directions as you can absorb, but there can only be one mind.

GLENNA: Can those bodies be in different time periods?

THERRY: Yes. They can be different time periods, different dimensions, different levels, but there's only one mind-force.

BLAKE: Is that where you're conscious. Is that the mind-force? The one where you always seem to be conscious on?

THERRY: Not necessarily. Remember, the consciousness exists with respect to the astral plane of common reality.

BLAKE: So, assuming that I'm not the person here who is in control of my mind, there is someone else --

THERRY: No, no, no, you're always in control of your mind, regardless of what level you're on.

BLAKE: Yea, but there's only one mind, right, and it controls all the vehicles.

THERRY: And it exists on all levels.

BLAKE: Alright, well, if I'm not that one--

THERRY: Of course you are that one; it's just that--see, you're looking at it too linearly. In order to understand it, you have to look at it fabrically where all threads are in possession, or are possessed of that one mind force.

BLAKE: Okay, I'm shared.

THERRY: No, the body's are shared; the mind's are one and the same. The thing that makes the driving force for the different physical is the Emotional Interchange Interface. That's why, Glenna, when you go back to past Egypt, and the other thing, there's such an Eire difference in reality because it's a different body that you're using, but, nonetheless, it's the same MindForce because it's still you, and you always recognize yourself as you even though reality may be totally different, it's still you. It always has been, always will be, regardless of how you change your face or your bodies. `Cause there's only one mind force. And it spans all realities.

BLAKE: So I'm not living a lot of lives at once at this point in time, or any point in time, right?

THERRY: It depends on which level that you're on.

GLENNA: Say that again? What'd you just say Tim?

BLAKE: I was posing a question. Apparently I am not living many lives at once at this moment in time. It was said earlier that you can only live--you can't go back and meet yourself, you can't go forward and meet yourself.

THERRY: Correct. Because you are yourself. There's only one MindForce. You can shift time, and as you shift time, you raise or lower veils of forgetfulness, and the limitations of the reality that you're in, but it's still that one mind force. That entity called you is going to be you regardless of what level that you're on.

BLAKE: So I can live many many many many lives at once if the veils are lifted and I'm aware of my past and my future, it's still me.

THERRY: Well, you're talking about the Grand Awakening now.

BLAKE: It's still me.

THERRY: Yea, you're talking about the Grand Awakening.

JOHN: To further complicate this, I'd like to ask you to go back to this movie reel-- If you can put yourself anywhere in the movie reel you want, through the Grand Awakening--

THERRY: No, you can't. It all depends on the limitations of the Alliance of the Rule.

JOHN: Okay, well let's say you have as much flexibility as possible, so that you could move around within the reel, um, is it also possible to go to a completely different reel?


JOHN: Where would you be?

THERRY: In a different reality.

JOHN: And that has nothing to do with Earth?

THERRY: Doesn't have to be. The law at hand is you can use the freedom of your own MindForce to choose any game you choose; having chosen that game, you are now limited to the limitations of that game. The laws of the game take over, and you've lost the freedom to do otherwise.

JOHN: Say that again?

THERRY: Which one?

JOHN: The last fifteen seconds.

THERRY: You have lost the freedom to do otherwise.

JOHN: So you have to develop the freedom to move within the reel you've chosen, or you can choose to get off the reel altogether and exercise your abilities to--

THERRY: Look at it from the point of view that every game you choose to play has very specific entry points, and very specific exit points. You cannot pick and choose when to enter and when to leave. You have to do so according to the rules of the game that you choose. Once you chose to enter it, now you're trapped; you can't just leave any time you want to because each level has its own Karma, and in order for you to leave a level that you enter, you have to be as pure as you were before you entered. If you have accrued Karma, having entered, then you're limited to remaining in that level until that Karma is equalized.

JOHN: So you can't move to another reel until you've finished the one you're on.

THERRY: Correct. The law at force there is: The force that you evoke to create a phenomenon is that same force which is going to maintain you within that phenomenon forever. You have to be able to command the very force that you evoke in order to cancel it. And so long as you have any karmic debt, you can't do that. You're too distracted, you become too bemused. That's what the walk of the Grand Awakening teaches.

JOHN: So the work that you're doing with Sam or Tony--again I want to try to liken it to this reel `cause I think I understand it on that basis.

THERRY: Understand that so long as you do use that pattern, it's very inaccurate because it is linear; the better analogy, or the analogy that would be closer to the truth would be assuming that that reel is just one thread going into one direction. Well, add to that mutinous threads which also go in every possible conceivable direction all at the same time, where all are touching one another where the affairs of one affect the affairs of all the others, and vice versa.

JOHN: But they all emanate from a center that's a common point, yes?

THERRY: No, they're all independent.

JOHN: But you say they touch.

THERRY: They're all in contact; they all affect one another; it's a fabric. The affairs of one life here, or one experience here could--it's conceivable that you could be experiencing effects which come from threads of creation that is so far removed from your present reality that it's unreal. That's why, conceivably, a new-born child whose never done anything wrong, yet suffers such horrible fates. There's no way that a new-born child could possibly accrue Karma to have such terrible fates when they're only two or three days old, or two or three hours old, yet look what happened to him. Obviously the threads of their illusions go back far more than just two or three hours. But for understanding's sake, it is a good pattern to take just one filmstrip; a good pattern for understanding, it's just incomplete. One of the books that we're writing is called the Seventh Sojourn, and it deals with that stuff. `Cause let's say that you have that one filmstrip. Well, that's fine and dandy except that you have one for your emotions, one for your logic, one for your language, one for your feelings, one for your data, one for the this, one for that, and they all mesh together to create what is called you. You have one that governs the color of your hair, the speed at which it grows, where the hair will spread on your body, why, when, whatever, the condition --for absolutely everything you have one. And it all comes together.

JOHN: And that creates the fabric.

THERRY: It creates the fabric, right. And so it is for every other person who comes in contact with one another, and so it is with every object that you come in contact with, and every other life form that you contact with. It's a box within a box, within a box, within a box, with each box within boxes also share that box with many other things.

JOHN: So when you said to Sam earlier something about Egyptian experiences or something, if she's presently at this point on this part of the fabric--

THERRY: Only in this time. But there's other threads there, and those other threads--

JOHN: Right.

THERRY: And those other threads allow her to go to other times.

JOHN: So this shifting could either stay on the thread and go forwards or backwards, or completely go to another thread, but it's all within the same fabric.

THERRY: Well, it all depends on if you're limiting it to Astrations or if you're limiting it to projections, or if you're limiting it to other things. Astrations will allow her to go forward, backwards, totally different threads, but then, so will projection, so will mind-creation, so will the bending of space, so will the looping of time. There are many phenomena that will allow you the same illusion, or allow you to perform the same thing.

GLENNA: If you're able to jump around to different times like that, doesn't that mean that they're all there for you to jump around in and out of?

THERRY: No, because you're failing to understand that time, itself, is not intrinsic. It's created as a part of the illusion that you're in. See, you're thinking of time as one big thing that exists the same everywhere. Time is not that way.

GLENNA: No, no, I was just saying, if you were mentioning Sam going back to ancient Egypt, that means Ancient Egypt is there, now, for her to go back to.

THERRY: No, no, no, you corrupted the--when you said `there now'. Now is Now's time. Ancient Egypt isn't there right now. This is what, 1990? It's not 3000 B.C., it's 1990.

GLENNA: So how could she go visit 3000 B.C.?

THERRY: Because time and space is telescopic. She has the ability, when we're using these things through Astrations, through other mind-forces, whereby you follow different threads; you cross a barrier where time is no longer a limiting factor. When she goes to, let's say, 1354 B.C., she has the ability, depending on the limitations, to have dual awareness, where she is there at that time, but she's also here too.

GLENNA: So they're both existing at the same time?

THERRY: No, they're not.

GLENNA: AHH! I must be stupid or something, I don't understand it.

THERRY: Okay, look at it from the point of view that you have two little fingers, alright? You have one on your left hand and you have one on your right hand. Is there ever a condition where they're both on one hand?


THERRY: Therefore, they're not existing at the same place. And if time, in one hand, has no connection to time on the other hand, how can you say that they're both at the same time?

GLENNA: Well, because while she's visiting Ancient Egypt 3000 B.C., she's also here in 1991, April--

THERRY: But they're two different times.

GLENNA: But she's in both of them at the same time!

THERRY: No, she's in both of them at once, not in the same time.

GLENNA: (Lots of laughter)

THERRY: See, the difficulty is the different definitions that you are giving to the word time.

GLENNA: She's in both of them at once--

THERRY: She's experiencing both of them, but they're not in the same time.

GLENNA: But she's experiencing both of them at the same time, I mean--

THERRY: The phrase `at the same time' is what's deceiving. Because it is not the same time.

GLENNA: At once. What does that mean? At once, then, I take it that doesn't mean at the same time.

THERRY: See, the problem is that the physical universe has different time zones, but the mind-force is above time. Time does not exist for the mind-force intrinsically. Time is a creation that is below the creation of the mind-force, hence the mind-force is capable of experiencing all times all at once, because time, itself, does not exist for it; it's not limited.

GLENNA: But that--well, no--that's what I thought it was, because--isn't it what you just said, you can experience all different times at once.

THERRY: Okay, but time itself --see, the mind-force does not exist in time.

GLENNA: Right.

THERRY: Therefore, the only thing that it perceives are the illusions of time.

GLENNA: Right.

THERRY: So if a vision of 1984 is going on simultaneously with a vision of 1354, they're two visions, each occurring in different times. So they're not both at the same time.

GLENNA: But you can experience them both--

THERRY: No, you experience them simultaneously. But they're not in the same time.

GLENNA: But simultaneously, doesn't that mean at the same time?

THERRY: Okay, see, you're insisting on using--

GLENNA: Not in the same time, but at the same time, simultaneously.

THERRY: Simultaneously, if you want to put it back to the same time, you are corrupting your understanding.

GLENNA: No, I don't know --I'm not saying--no, I don't want to put it back to the same--one is 3000 B.C. and one is 1990.

THERRY: Exactly. Now, between the two there's a seeming eternity from varying levels of awareness, so therefore you cannot say `at the same time'. The phrase `at the same time' brings it back in time. The unison of time, and that doesn't exist.

GLENNA: So what does the `simultaneous' mean?

THERRY: Simultaneously means, from a mind-force's point of view, you are having or experiencing a vision, which, from this point of view, you would perceive it as being at the same time. But you only get that perception because it's from this time's point of view because of dual awareness. You have no experience, no perception of eternity, so therefore, for you, the time span between those two visions, don't exist for you. But from the MindForce point of view, it does exist. Does that help explain it more?

GLENNA: Well, kind of, but it sounds like you're saying time is a real thing, that---

THERRY: Time is a real thing only with respect to the borders of its limits. Going back to that filmstrip again, the frame is governed by very specific time, very specific space; it's the time/space continuum, as we know it. But any two frames that are side by side are not governed by the same subset of laws.

GLENNA: Oh, okay.

THERRY: So therefore if you are going to experience any two frames along that thread of creation, each frame has its own respective subset of laws of the time/space continuum. From the MindForce's point of view, there's an eternity of difference between them.

GLENNA: That has nothing to do with time.

THERRY: It has nothing to do with time, because from the MindForce's point of view, time, that way, does not exist. See, there are very specific borders, limits, to time frames, to illusions, and it is possible for an individual to, for the lack of a better word, punch a hole through time, or legally open a door, and what happens is the two times sort of super-impose themselves on one another where the definite borders between them can get fudged and lost. There's a lot of people in insane asylums that are there because of that fact. But from the MindForce's point of view, there's a big difference.

GLENNA: Okay. I guess it must be something with the language that I can't grasp exactly what it is, `cause even that means to me that two time periods can overlap, it means they're both there at the same time so that they can overlap.

THERRY: But that's the point; they're not there at the same time. They're at two totally different times. It's just that the MindForce, which has itself the seed of awareness, is beyond the scope and the effects of time. So therefore, those two seemingly different time/space continuums is capable of being experienced. But you still can't say it's at the same time because 1955 is not 3000 B.C., never will be. That's why it's called Bi-location. To understand it you say you experience it simultaneously, but you don't experience it in the same time or at the same time because 1955 will never be 3000.

GLENNA: Well...but--So, I take simultaneous to mean at the same time.

THERRY: Perhaps you need to go clean up your language. That's what I said a little earlier this afternoon when people do not hold their language sacredly, they exchange the definitions.

GLENNA: Simultaneously doesn't mean at the same time?

THERRY: Uh-uh, no it doesn't.

GLENNA: `Cause that's actually what Seth says. He says all lives are simultaneous. I said it's at the same time.

THERRY: You've changed his message. Simultaneously does not mean at the same time. It means co-occurrences.

JACK: Co what?

THERRY: Co-occurrences, coincidences.

BLAKE: Side by side, so to speak, overlapping, so to speak, but not the same. Right?

GLENNA: Side by side, but not --

THERRY: Not the same time. It's co-incidences, things that are happening--

GLENNA: So simultaneous means more like parallel?

THERRY: It doesn't even have to be parallel, it could be other things. But it's, it's difficult to get you to understand that it's not the same time, yet, because you're thinking along the vein of the same time, it's the only words that will help you to understand it, but it's not accurate.

JACK: So the thing is, even if it's not IN the same time--

THERRY: It's not at the same time either.

JACK: Let's say we do go --I don't know what special way we do, but let's say you leave your body for--you know, here, for half an hour, and you go to Ancient Egypt, or anywhere and you can stay there for three months or half an hour, and then you come back here. I mean, this half an hour that you didn't spend here, your mind cannot be in your body, it's not in the same time, but still time passed here so--

THERRY: Doesn't have to. You can leave your body here, have your body drop off to sleep, go someplace and be gone, let's say, five hundred thousand years, and then when you come back here --

JACK: Later--

THERRY: --all you did was nod off, blink, that's all--

JACK: Well, still it was --it doesn't have to, but this is still a part of time.

THERRY: It's co-incidences, but it's not at the same time, because there's no way--(interrupted by Sam's laughter) there's no way that you can say that three thousand years worth of time is the same thing as the blinking of an eye, so therefore you can't say that's it's the same time. The only thing that you can say is that it's co-occurrences, co-incidences simultaneously. See, when you're explaining that, or when you're thinking of that, you've got to stop having reference to time, because time is telescopic. You can't use time to explain time; it's a circular definition and you won't get nowhere. See, when you use words like lives, well, that word, implied within it, has time. So therefore you cannot use time to explain them.

JACK: I think when you're talking about traveling through time, or just seeing it like you could see space; for example, at this same time here I could be in Paris, because Paris, the time is running at the same time. Except that inside--

THERRY: But that's the whole difference, you see, when you go to other threads, time is not running at the same time.

BLAKE: But it could go-

THERRY: No, it doesn't.

BLAKE: So if you're here, and you've Bi-located in France, it's not running at the same time?

THERRY: If I'm on the same dimensional latitude, yes.

BLAKE: Oh, okay. I was really thinking of Karma. If I--I've got some Karma in this life; I've got to take care of it in this life or future lives, correct?

THERRY: Yea. What is incurred on a level is paid on that level.

BLAKE: Alright, does that apply to if I Astrate, go back to the eighteen hundreds, let's say, where I incurred some Karma, and take care of that Karma at that point, is that considered what's done at that level--

THERRY: That's how you take care of Karma. You go back to the time--

BLAKE: Can't I take care of it now, at this life?


BLAKE: I have to go back to that life?

THERRY: Yea. You have to go back to the time that it was incurred.

BLAKE: Oh, interesting. So you have to go back to the same time frame that Karma was incurred.


BLAKE: You can't take care of it in the future.


BLAKE: So then, how come we keep saying, we keep talking about how you can take care of your Karma--it's accumulative; you take care of it as your life unfolds, as your future unfolds.


BLAKE: So I don't get it.

THERRY: Because time and space is telescopic.

BLAKE: So I can't take care of it in this life.

THERRY: The only way that you can take care of it in the future is if the situation, or the happening, is repeated in the future.

BLAKE: Correct. Alright, so it doesn't have to be in the same time frame.

THERRY: Well, I don't think Custer's going to attack us tomorrow. So, if you have any Karma to deal with Custer, you're going to have to go back to where he's at, `cause I don't think he's going to come to us.

BLAKE: Okay. So it depends on the overall scenario, and the Karmic renditions.


BLAKE: Some things we have to go back, other things can be taken care of as your life unfolds into the future.


GLENNA: You couldn't work out Karma with Custer as whatever he is in this day and age? You know, I mean, he could be a new entity now, or a new personality, or whatever-

THERRY: If you have a debt to take care of with Custer because he's an asshole general, then in order for you to be able to take care of that debt with an asshole general called Custer; you have to do it at a time when Custer is in that same category. Or--

GLENNA: You have to be that specific personality--

THERRY: Well, it depends. Sometimes it doesn't, but usually it does. Because, a lot of time, if the specific person is not available, then somebody else, somehow, will serve that role, if the Karma matches perfectly. Then you can take care of it.

BLAKE: You've got to keep reliving that time segment until, until you make the right choices, correct?

THERRY: Well, something like that.

BLAKE: It almost sounds like suicide, getting caught in that kind of trap where you have to live the same time frame over and over again.

THERRY: Well, the only basic difference is Karma recognizes only patterns, not specifics.

BLAKE: I see. Okay, so it doesn't matter if it's suicide or not. But doesn't mean that I have to be born in that time, does it? I could Astrate to that time and take care of it, true?


BLAKE: Do we have to be born into it, in order to take care of it? You can't do it from a Bi-location point of view?


GLENNA: Oh, that was going to be the next question. Seth talks about when you're in between lives and your past lives, you realize mistakes, or whatever, and you amend things--you can't do that?

THERRY: You can only do it on the level to which it was created. That's the beauty of telescopic time. Like, you could be sitting here, and you could be growling, you could realize something, and you could nod off, and while you're nodding off, you could be gone for four, five thousand years taking care of Karma on different levels.

BLAKE: But you said you couldn't do that; you had to be born into those times.

THERRY: Yea, but the operative here is born. There's lots of ways of being born.

BLAKE: Okay, what's a --

THERRY: We'll talk about that later. Now, when you come back, again, from this time span's point of view, in terms of this time's chronology, maybe only five minutes passed.

GLENNA: But I lived and died a whole life back in the eighteen hundreds in actual fact?


GLENNA: I literally was born and lived and did the whole thing?

THERRY: Uh-huh. That's the basic difference; puddle-jumping through time and space.

SHELIA: Then, could we be sleeping somewhere right now, and this whole thing is one of those things?

THERRY: Could be a dream, yea.

GLENNA: (Laughs) This whole thing is one of those things! I'm nodding off for five minutes somewhere in the future--


THERRY: It's a possibility. The same way as when you go to sleep at night and you dream, which of the two realities is the real one? Just because you keep coming back here, you also keep going back there too.

SHELIA: I was going to say, when you're in the dream, that's the reality.

THERRY: Exactly, and whose to say this is not the dream reality.

SHELIA: Now, so when you said that this whole thing about time not going on at once that was how you put it --

GLENNA: It's not going on at once, but it's going on simultaneously.

SHELIA: Okay, so if it's not going on at once--

BLAKE: Coincidence.

THERRY: They're all coincidence.

SHELIA: Okay, now, but does that mean that, let's say, going--that the other time, going back to Egypt, let's say, doesn't come into existence until I have the thought form? You know what I'm saying, or is that confusing?

THERRY: Well, see, because time is your reference point, as opposed to creation, you are living in nineteen --whatever, so therefore thirteen whatever is in the past, doesn't exist anymore. And twenty-something hasn't even come around yet; doesn't exist, it hasn't been created yet.

SHELIA: Right.

THERRY: See, that phenomena only exists because time is your reference point.

SHELIA: So I would have to create it. Each of us--

BLAKE: If time wasn't her reference point, then how would that come?

THERRY: Then nineteen, two thousand, three thousand, four thousand, they're all occurring simultaneously.

BLAKE: And what determines her reference point, her illusion, right?

THERRY: Her illusions. See the minute you start using time, itself as your reference points, then it's ludicrous to think that everything is happening at the same time, because it's not.

BLAKE: But from a higher vantage point, it is all happening at once. Or it doesn't even apply.

THERRY: It doesn't apply because time is no longer a reference point there.

BLAKE: What can become the reference point at that--

THERRY: Well, we call it Orthodontiks time.

BLAKE: Is that cosmic consciousness, is that a bad way of saying it?

THERRY: That's got nothing to do with Orthodontiks time; that's simply the presence of the state of awareness.

BLAKE: So I would talk about the state of awareness when--

THERRY: Not when you're talking about Orthodontiks time.

BLAKE: Okay.

THERRY: The key here to understanding is a box within a box within a box within a box, and each box that is within each box shares that box with many other threads of creation.

GLENNA: That's what they mean by simultaneous?

THERRY: Yea. Like say you have one box, and inside that one box there are three other boxes. Well the time/space continuum within those three other boxes could be different. The limitations within those three other boxes could be different. The experience that you perceive in each of those three other boxes could be different. One, you could be a bird, in the other you could be a sheep, in the other you could be human.

GLENNA: But I'm all of those things simultaneously.

THERRY: Simultaneously within one box. But with respect to each of those little boxes, you cannot say that time is the same. You cannot say they're all happening at the same time. You have to be outside--

GLENNA: No, within them, it's like, you're born, you die, you're born, you die.

THERRY: Right. You have to be outside in the bigger box in order to see and have reference to those three little boxes. So, if you use the language such that you interchange the word time and simultaneously, then you lose a very big point of understanding. And that was the point of the conversation this afternoon. She's in a very special set of trainings, and for her to corrupt her language the way she was doing this afternoon, is just future lots of trouble. That's why language becomes so icky-picky-uuny. Does that help you understand more?

GLENNA: Well, yea, I guess only because I'm looking at simultaneous as meaning something different then I always thought it meant.

THERRY: Well that's the whole point. You use your language improperly. You use your language basically as a connotative device. And it's not designed for that. You have a camera in your hand and you say, hey, let me shoot you. Well that's a pretty severe corruption of your language. `Cause a camera's not a gun, and you can't shoot a picture of somebody `cause it's just not--you can take a picture of somebody, but you can't shoot one. Not unless you want to corrupt your language. So language is designed to limit, not to broaden, and when you use it to broaden, you're corrupting yourself, and you lose a great deal of your ability for understanding on greater areas. The only way that you can understand the intricate concepts of time is if you have absolute, impeccable language. Otherwise it's too confusing. Your language should be such that each label has one and only one definition.

GLENNA: Well, I have to try understanding simultaneous not meaning at the same time then, `cause it's --

BLAKE: Can I ask a two-part question that's a little unrelated, or should I wait?

THERRY: Well, you can ask questions all the time; they can't.

BLAKE: Well I'll go to bed after this one.


GLENNA: You can ask, it's alright.

BLAKE: Ahh, when someone castrates, and they don't do it at will, let's say, it's just happening, and there's this force that pulls them zooomm! Faster than you can imagine somewhere, they don't know where it's taking them, it's just going. Could that, or is that the primary awareness trying to call back the dreamer--

THERRY: Oh yea.

BLAKE: And if he doesn't go, or gets fearful, is afraid and resists going back to that source, wherever that source is--


BLAKE: Now, couple that, or in opposition to that, if someone castrates at will, is that person, or that entity really saying, I want to find my way myself, as opposed to just letting --

THERRY: You can't make that statement. While that's a possibility, it's not a blanket possibility.

BLAKE: Well, obviously the other way, where the force is just pulling, you really don't know; there's no way of telling, you just have to have--

THERRY: Until you go back home. But if you think a minute, that's one of the magic windows. If all are right, automatically the force will bring you home.

BLAKE: So, if someone's Astrating at will, then--

THERRY: But you also have to bear in mind that at all times, to paraphrase you, you're master awareness is always in Orthodontiks.

BLAKE: Uh-huh. I was trying to recall, recall the entity for whatever purpose or reason.

THERRY: Right.

BLAKE: That entity got fearful.

THERRY: Right.

BLAKE: Or the dreamer got fearful.

THERRY: Right.

BLAKE: It resisted.

THERRY: Right.

BLAKE: Because he didn't know the nature of his source.

THERRY: Well, that doesn't necessarily have to be the reason why, but I'll accept what you're saying.

BLAKE: Okay, so then, is it the long way around, trying to Astrate at will to get to that point that at one time it was easy to get to, if you just let `em pull him away?

THERRY: I don't think you can make that statement. Obviously you can make the statement, but I don't think it's an absolutely valid statement.

BLAKE: Okay, well, what's the --

THERRY: Because it's differing realities have the differing needs. And as a member of the Brothers-of-the-Chain, you enter a reality for someone else, not for you.

BLAKE: Uh-huh. So then, why would the primary, or master awareness try to recall the dreamer?

THERRY: Probably to teach you a new lesson. Probably to prepare you for a new task. And when you say `a prime reality', it doesn't have to be THE prime reality; it could easily be a reality above the present illusion.

BLAKE: Uh-huh. If someone were to feel that force, is it generally regarded as safe, let's say to go with it? Or is there--

THERRY: Can't make that statement, Timmy.

BLAKE: You never know; you just got to decide at the time.

THERRY: I can't make that statement. I can't give you a blanket statement on that. It all depends on the laws involved.

BLAKE: A reference point must be observed in order to decide.

THERRY: Yes, the better thing to do is to abide by the laws of the Grand Awakening. You know, that one question of yours came into an awful lot of little babies.

BLAKE: Goodnight.

THERRY: Goodnight. (Laughter)

SHELIA: Goodnight.

BLAKE: Sweet dreams.

THERRY: When we get into conversations of time and space, we can lose a lot of people rather quickly.

GLENNA: Okay, so, using simultaneous, instead of at the same time, are my past lives simultaneous with this life, and are the things I'm doing in them affecting me now?

THERRY: Yes. Remember, each life, within itself, has a system of cause and effect relationship where each effect becomes a cause for a new effect, and it snowballs and it affects your life as you live it. According to the Law of the Moment. Did you ever sit and watch a crystal lattice form as something freezes? How it moves forward? Well, that's the way life is. Each decision that you make blocks off all possibilities that do not go along that decision, and that forces you to address a very specific thing. Goes back to the old adage, `which would you like? Door number one, or two, or door number three? If you chose door number one, then anything that could have existed because of door number two or three you lose; it's gone.' You're limited to whatever door number one takes you.

GLENNA: It's gone as far as my being aware of it.

THERRY: Gone, period. `Cause you're not there. You choose door number one; you did not chose door number two, or door number three, so therefore, you don't walk those time lines. From this reality's point. If you want to choose door number two, or door number three, you have to do so via another time line.

GLENNA: So, when we were saying all possibilities of every situation is always--

THERRY: Present. Always present. Don't make the mistake of saying they're all at the same time. They're all present, but they're all different time lines.

GLENNA: So, when you say it's gone, you mean along this time line.

THERRY: This time line, correct.

GLENNA: But on some other level, or time line, I've explored those possibilities too.

THERRY: Or will.

SHELIA: Or have already?

THERRY: Or have already, and you've lost cognizance of it.

GLENNA: So, then learning how to do this jumping time thing, could help make things better here `cause I could fix the things I did before that's fucking me up now?


SHELIA: Well, when you say `fix', you can't undo something you've done--

THERRY: No, but you can neutralize the effects of having done it.

SHELIA: By doing the same type of life over again and changing your behavior?

THERRY: Making different choices.

SHELIA: But it would be a different frequency, so to speak? It wouldn't be going back--

THERRY: It's a different time line.

SHELIA: But the other time line would still--

GLENNA: Affect you.

THERRY: Effect, but remember, like any two tuning forks, they can cancel one another out. Like minus three and plus three equals zero. So, if one time line, its effect was a minus three, and the other time line was a plus three, then from the force of creation's point of view, each neutralizes the other. Hence, you go into the omission status.

SHELIA: So is that to say it would no longer exist?


SHELIA: You just neutralize it.

THERRY: You just neutralize it, and you go into the omission as opposed to the commission.

GLENNA: This is the same for the future too?


GLENNA: Do things in the future in the same way affect things now, just like even in the past?

THERRY: No. It's not a back to this time-- The future does not affect your past; it's always--time does not run backwards.

GLENNA: Can my future help me?

THERRY: In the past, no. Future has no bearing whatsoever on the past. Because the future is created by the past. See, time doesn't run backwards, therefore your future can't help you. In order for your future to help your past, time would have to run backwards.

GLENNA: But it's like --if now I go back and fix something I did before because I learned something, I learned better, I whatever, I learned the error of my ways, so I go fix something, isn't the relationship of that past to now, isn't this like the future helping that past?

THERRY: No, because you don't go back to that past; you go through a different time line.

GLENNA: No--okay, so it's not exactly the same thing, but in that same way --

THERRY: Remember, when you're talking time, it has very specific limitations.

GLENNA: Okay, but that's not what I meant.

THERRY: It doesn't matter what you meant. Got to clean up your language. Whenever you're talking about time, it's very very very specific. Otherwise there's no way you can truly understand what it is that's happening. You can go crazy real fast.

GLENNA: So that would be just like an alternate thing again.

THERRY: Yea. The effects of one neutralizes, or offsets the effects of the other, so therefore, from a higher point of view, you equal out to nothing. So the karmic debt is neutralized. And therefore, the karmic bond that would tie you to that debt would be broken.

GLENNA: And you can do that all over the line, I mean, all over the place?

THERRY: Yea. You can puddle-jump all over the place. Plus there are rules; you can't just do it arbitrarily, but you can do it.

GLENNA: What do you mean, you can't do it arbitrarily?

THERRY: You can't sit down today and say, "okay, today I think I'm going to go to Turkey, Istanbul!" You know, there are rules. But if you understand the rules and know how to manipulate the laws of creation, you can do it. And it's not as difficult to do as you think it is. People don't realize just how easy it is to manipulate the laws of creation.

JACK: You're right, I don't realize at all. (Laughter)

THERRY: Well, just some of the things that you've experienced while you were here indicates how easy it is. It doesn't take a big brain to do some of the things that you've seen here already. `Cause if it did, we wouldn't be able to do them.

GLENNA: So is this going back thing as literal as if I killed somebody, and go fix it, does that mean in this life I won't have to die for it `cause this is the life I had chosen to do that?

THERRY: I can only say that at some point in time, you will be killed. The law is: You can use the greatness of your own heart to forgive real or imagined harm done to you by others, and in so doing, the process of forgiving another results in the fact that you, yourself are forgiven. But Karma forgives nothing.

GLENNA: So, changing that action won't stop me from having to be killed?

THERRY: Correct. Because the other person whom you killed can forgive you, and in the process of them forgiving you, it is really they themselves who have been forgiven. You, on the other hand, if you have, in fact, committed that murder, then at some point in some life you will commit suicide.

GLENNA: So what are the kind of things that you can go back and make a different decision for and not have to pay --

THERRY: Everything. Just because you killed somebody in a past life, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have die for it in this life. You can also die for it in some other lives.

GLENNA: I can't go back and amend that action and not have to die, like we were talking about canceling it out? I can't, you know, change it and realize it was wrong? I still have to literally be killed?

THERRY: In some form, yea. There's no credit.

GLENNA: Well, then, what is --what are you fixing then when you go back and you--you're still going to have to do it anyway. You know what I mean?

THERRY: Well see, you keep using your words that you `go back', and I keep trying to tell you over and over and over, that you don't go back.

GLENNA: Ohh, that's right, that's right. So it's just another alternative--I won't be killed `cause I wouldn't have killed, and so, but still in this one--okay, that's right.

THERRY: Right, it's a different time line. Will you see how language will screw you up all the time? That's why it's so important.

GLENNA: So I can't really literally help this life then by amending past deeds.

THERRY: No you can't.

GLENNA: I can help an alternative --

THERRY: Right. The only way that you can help this life is by gaining control of your own mind, your own heart, your own understanding in this life, and make the proper decisions as you go along. For you to make excuses to do bad behavior such as, " Ahh, he did it again! Quick, give me a drink, I got to calm my nerves!" That's bullshit. If you're going to help this life, you're gonna have to say, " Alright, so he did it. That's the way it goes." And you don't use that, as an excuse to do something else that you know is wrong. It's the only way that you can help this life. This life is helped only according to the decisions that you make on the daily basis, from moment to moment.

GLENNA: So what's the point of going back and amending things, then? They're not affecting--

THERRY: Because are you familiar with the Law of the Moment?

GLENNA: I don't know.

THERRY: Well, among other things, it does three things at the same time. Simultaneously as well as at the same time. Okay, it satisfies--it ratifies the needs of the past, it satisfies the needs of the present, and it writes, and therefore determines your future script. So it's the third one that gets you. So what you do today is going to determine your experiences of the future.

GLENNA: So it's helping me make things easier in the future.

THERRY: Right.

GLENNA: Oh, okay.

JOHN: It's almost as if he woke up from a really bad dream, and he's just continued to react to it.

THERRY: Or perhaps he's not totally in this reality. He hasn't yet crossed over.

JOHN: Maybe, but he did the same thing last night. Every hour and a half he woke up in the exact same state.

SHELIA: Well, the crying is because it's hard to pass from one--

THERRY: Oh, it's very difficult. If you don't know what the hell's happening, it's unbelievably frightening. Unbelievably. Picture, if you will, you being in the state where you can't depend on absolutely anything because there are no reference points that work.

SHELIA: Right.

JOHN: A prison.

THERRY: Worse than prison. A prison, at least you have walls that will stop you. In the state where there are no reference points, there is no up, there is no down, there is no walls. You see more than one image in front of you, and you don't know which is which. So it can be very frightening. Plus, different parts of your body operate under different time zones. It's rather frightening.