Arkashean Q&A Session -- 053

THERRY: How much have you really made your decision?

GERRY: It's been made for me hasn't it? If I had a choice, if things were, if it was really working, I would keep doing what I was doing. I have--

THERRY: Have you thought of the different possibilities that are going on in order to make it work?

GERRY: Well, I think so. I mean, we've tried everything that we've been able to come up with for a year. And, you know...I had this discussion with Skie the other day. He says, 'man, if I could get the Circle to make $32,000 the first year I'd be as happy as a pig in shit.' Yeah, but to a pig in shit that would be a lot of money. If you live in New York, it's not. It's not enough and I don't see any quick way to rescue it.

THERRY: Okay. Have you thought about what are your vocational abilities? If and when you move to that new place?

GERRY: Well, I'd be doing exactly the same thing I am now except but for somebody who's willing to pay for it on a regular basis.

THERRY: Is it available?

GERRY: What?

THERRY: Is that job market available?

GERRY: I talked to some of the people I do this for on an occasional basis and. You know, I mean, I started registering with temp agencies about three weeks ago and I've done some work with them. Again, it's so sporadic and short term that it's not enough. It's too...the reality of it is that we had a bunch of time where it worked okay but it didn't work well enough. Because it just didn't make too much money.

THERRY: Well, it may well be again. There's always--have you thought about the possibility that again the Universal Finger's at work?

GERRY: This one?

THERRY: No. (Laughter.) No.

TINA: Which one?

GERRY: This one. The Universal Finger's at work. (Laughter) For those of you listening on the tape that was the middle finger.

THERRY: No, I'm having reference to the Universal Finger that says, 'hey, I'm going to destroy this city, it's time for you to get the hell out.'

GERRY: Yeah, Sue packs up about every six months. I guess the positive in this is the fact that it took only a year to develop a bunch of skills that are infinitely more marketable than what I was doing.

THERRY: Well, at least you've got those skills. That's a lot of positives.

GERRY: Oh, absolutely. I think there are a lot of positives.

THERRY: So, you're moving forward. You may not--

GERRY: Forwards and backwards.

THERRY: Yeah, but that's the way of life.

GERRY: Yeah.

THERRY: You may not necessarily get what you want but you definitely get what you need.

GERRY: Sounds just like a song. Hey. Are you guys laughing? What?

TINA: About New York. Don't blame me.

SHEILA : You do it too. In another way.

TINA: You realize of course that you're going to have to move tomorrow.

GERRY: You know, it'll just work for so long. It will solve some problems, and create entirely new ones.

THERRY: Yeah, but that's true regardless of where you go and what you do.

TINA: My mother is always asking me how much money I'm making, and it bothers me.


TINA: I don't know.

THERRY: Why don't you try to find out why it bothers you? Once you discover why it bothers you then you might discover a good way to reply.

TINA: It's just like she's being nosy or something.

THERRY: Well, if you find out why it bothers you you can address it.

TINA: So, in the meantime I should just tell her.

THERRY: No, you don't have to tell her. You don't have to succumb to somebody else's desire.

TINA: You know, if I said no it would be like fight or something, you know. She'd be offended. She'd be totally offended.


TINA: You don't know my mother.

THERRY: Play a role with me. You be my mother and I'll be you.

TINA: So where you going? Where's your next gig?

THERRY: I'm not sure just yet. Maybe China, maybe Japan, maybe Russia. I'm not sure.

TINA: Okay, umm...

THERRY: Maybe France.

TINA: Okay, so you're going to France for a gig. How long are you going to be there?

THERRY: Maybe I'm going there for a gig.

TINA: You mean don't even tell her that I'm working?

THERRY: Play the role.

TINA: When's the next work that you have?

THERRY: I'm not sure. There are no guarantees in life. I do the best I can. How about you?

TINA: You mean even if I'm lying?

THERRY: How about you? How much money do you make?

TINA: I never ask her that.

THERRY: How much money do you make?

TINA: I don't know.

THERRY: What do you do with all your money? What do you spend it on?

TINA: That's what she asks me. It drives me crazy.

THERRY: Pull the same thing. And if she comes and says, 'isn't that kind of personal,' then you come up with perhaps I hope you will remember that next time you ask me what I do with mine.

TINA: Well, you're certainly being a smart-ass aren't you? That's the kind of response.

THERRY: Well, hey, like mother like daughter isn't it? You out to be proud of me.

TINA: Why don't you want to tell me?

THERRY: Why don't you? Isn't that a two-way street?

TINA: Yeah, but--

THERRY: I asked a question.

TINA: Yeah, but now we're fighting.

THERRY: No, you don't have to be fighting. Fighting is only when you're emotions are there and each wants to hurt the other. When you're disagreeing or when you're debating, that's not fighting.

THERRY: You're on.

SHEILA: Um, when we went to kiss Sam goodnight tonight, he said to me, 'I have a message for Therry.' I said, 'what is it?' And he said, 'ask him how do we die.' I said, 'okay, anything else?' And then he said something else about trees, two words, red trees, but I just can't remember the word. And I said, 'what about trees', and then that's when he gets--every time he talks to me in that nature he gives me a look like 'oh, just go deliver the message to him. (Laughter) He gets like really uptight. So, here's the message.

THERRY: He wants to know what again?

SHEILA: How do we die

THERRY: Okay. From the --

SHEILA: Oh, I'm supposed to tell him?

THERRY: From the physical Ba --well, he can listen to the tape.

SHEILA: Oh, all right. Oh yeah, oh, yeah.

THERRY: From the physical body's point of view it looks like we get tired, like we want to go to sleep. And we go into a dream and while we're dreaming the physical body begins to shut down and the dream becomes more and more real so the process of death is simply from transferring your reality or awareness from one dream to the next. The same way as at some future day you would remember one life from another because it's like remembering one dream the same way as him and I were the parents once before in England. So, right now John and Susan's like the parents. In another life the same way they were dreaming about me and Tim being the parent so they, he will dream about John and Sue being the parents. So, death itself doesn't exist. You simply go from one place to another. Life continues. Physical body is left behind the same way as when you change your pants or your clothes. Go take a bath, you go take off your clothes, you go into the water, so then you put a new set of clothes on. Well, it's the same way when you die. You take off one body and you discard it. You leave it behind. You go to a new place and you take on a new one. That's the answer.

SHEILA: Oh, okay.

TINA: What about the trees?

THERRY: There are a number of possibilities about the trees. Trees are a pattern of life where there's just as much above the ground as there is below the ground and they both follow the same pattern. They're eternal. Okay?

TINA: Mm-hmm.

GERRY: How cognizant is he of, of --

THERRY: A lot more than you think.

GERRY: Well, yeah. I assumed that, but is this stuff that he's actually thinking about now because he understands when he listens to a bunch of people sit around and talk about it?

THERRY: Well, in--

GERRY: Or, is it flashes of something from before?

THERRY: A little bit of both.

SHEILA: : When we talk about this stuff, again it's identical, and he'll reach a point and I'll say, then what happened. I don't know, he gets annoyed when he says that. Or he says 'I don't remember.' But it's definitely that he gets annoyed. He wants to throw it off. What is that?

THERRY: It's frustration. His memories come only so much at one time. And, his reluctance to speak about it is there just for so long. It's like a computer who has only 256 K Bites. It will only take a page and then that's it.

SHEILA : Is it painful when he remembers a thing, like the other thing he said to me and Glo yesterday about this fire, right? Also, in England, since he's on this England thing. It doesn't appear to be painful the way he's speaking it.

THERRY: Well, it all depends on how it occurs.

SHEILA : In how he sees you mean, how it occurred?

THERRY: More than just that. There are different ways of remembering. There is remembering and then there's reliving. If it is a case of remembering then no, it's not painful. There's sadness there, it's not painful. But, if you're reliving, then again there are different ways of reliving. There's reliving it in the memory and then there's reliving it in the presence. And there's reliving it in the past. Then there's also reliving it in the future depending on the four ways you have different degrees of pain and different degrees of sadness. Different degrees of fear. And different degrees of hauntingness.

SHEILA : Hauntingness you said?

TINA: Is it unusual for someone to remember so much like that? Or do most children go back and forth like that fairly easily?

THERRY: Well, there is something that you folks really don't know about him yet. There is something in the Alliance of the Rule, in his script. And, obviously, I'm not going to tell you what it is, but whatever is in his script it brings forth pages of memories and that brings sadness. Sometimes it brings a concern. Sometimes it brings a fear. But in most cases it brings a sad resolution.

SHEILA : So accepting, is like a lesson of acceptance?

THERRY: Yeah, resignation. But, also during those times there's a little trepidation and that's the time when he'll be more likely to choose his most significant other in one or both. Not so much that his most significant other will be able to prevent what happens but the most significant other can hold his hand along the way. And sort of witness. And, maybe that way make it a little less fearful.

TINA: So, the pages of memory that you're talking about, is it this life you mean?

THERRY: No, it's a couple of lives begin to merge in terms of memory.

SHEILA : What is this? This Alliance of the Rule? What is that?

THERRY: Go read it in the book.

SHEILA : Okay.

THERRY: The Alliance of the Rule basically for every individual is the Akashic records as it belongs to them. It is the page of the book that is them.

SHEILA : All the combination of all of the lives?

THERRY: Primarily, this one is the one we're talking about.

SHEILA : But, yet these --

THERRY: See, the Akashic records is the records of all. But there are divisions the same way as there divisions in a book. The divisions of an individual are called the Alliance of the Rule.

SHEILA : So, back to what you asked. You asked if it was common with children. So, is--

THERRY: You can't, that question is unanswerable because it's phrased such that the response would have to be given to the whole continuum of all children and that would negate the individuality of the children. Therefore I really can't answer that question.

SHEILA : I was just wondering if he has these things because he was right from birth connected with Arkashea. I mean obviously he chose to be born into a place where not only are his parents Arkashean, but therefore he would get here at a very young age.


SHEILA : So, that was his choice.


SHEILA : And so these visions that he has whatever, for the lack of a better word, are they because of that, being Arkashean? Whereas another child would not have these things?

THERRY: From that point of view, yes.

SHEILA : Okay.

THERRY: Obviously, it's not accurate but from that point of view, yes. The reason why it's not accurate is the way you used your language there wasn't a cause and effect relationship. And that is not accurate. Obviously, if he were not Arkashean, and, if he were not Karmically bonded to Arkasheans and therefore have had certain experiences in Arkashea before, obviously if that had not occurred he would not have had the visions. But, he's not having the visions because that other thing occurred.


THERRY: Can you understand that? Cause and effect relationship type thing?

SHEILA : Do you mean...

THERRY: See, you asked, you made a relationship between the event and the contents of the event.

SHEILA : Okay.

THERRY: And, that's not accurate. He would be having visions independent of whatever he may have experienced with Arkashea.


THERRY: So, you can't say it was because of his relationship with Arkashea that he's having visions.


THERRY: The visions are there simply because he like many other children are remembering past life episodes. So, if you want to assign a cause and affect relationship assign it to the process of experiencing past-life episodes. As opposed to assigning it because he is Arkashean. Does that make sense to you?

SHEILA : Yep. Now it does. None of us had parents who were involved in this sort of thing. I mean, Glo and I were talking about it. I don't know, how to undo so much crap, Christian stuff and all this.

THERRY: I accept the title that you gave that, crap. But I wouldn't sell it all that short. For many people it's all that they had and it did a very good job of getting them to where they're at thus far.

SHEILA : Oh, okay. But, I think --

THERRY: It's useful stuff, even though it's still from one point of view crap.

SHEILA : I think for me I thought it was useful only in that--I mean it was a great source for confusion.

THERRY: That may well be true. But nonetheless in various stages of your life it served you well. However troubled, nonetheless it served you well.

SHEILA : So that seems kind of nice to me that Sam already at a very young age is going to be in the midst of this.


SHEILA : And, it's because he wants to be, right?


SHEILA : That's great. I think that's great.

GERRY: Is the amount of spinning around like a top that he does in bed a reflection of how active he is in dream states while he sleeps?


GERRY: At this age does he dream about things in this life and past lives, yes? (Answers his own question.)

THERRY: He is one notch different in somnambulism states than you are.

GERRY: In what way?

THERRY: His somnambulism switch doesn't work as well as yours even though yours is malfunctioning.

SHEILA : Because of his age you mean, or because of something else?

THERRY: There's really no way of knowing. I have no way of knowing why his switch malfunctions.

SHEILA : What's this switch, you mean from one reality to another.

THERRY: No, the somnambulism switch is the switch where you shut one body off while you're using the other.

SHEILA : Do most people just do that?

THERRY: Yeah, most people on this level at least when they go to sleep, the physical body gets shut off except for the autonomic system.

SHEILA : Okay.

THERRY: John, on the other hand doesn't completely shut his body off. Sammy shuts his body off even less.

SHEILA : Do I shut it off too much?

THERRY: No, no..

SHEILA : That's not the same?

THERRY: No. See, John will talk, turn over, and have great conversations and whatever. Sometimes in rare occasions he may even sit up. Sammy, on the other hand will do all that to a far greater degree. And, he also has the ability to actually walk and move in his sleep.

SHEILA : As in sleepwalking?

THERRY: Yes, except that it's not the same.

SHEILA : I sleepwalk as a kid, but you're saying it's not the same.

THERRY: Not the same.

GERRY: Does he actually think he's doing something on this level and that's where his movement is derived from while he's back on a dream state doing something completely different?

THERRY: It's the other way around.

GERRY: He's acting out on this level--

THERRY: His awareness factor is on the level that he is on and it's trickling down and giving mobility to the Ka.

SHEILA : On here.


GERRY: So, he's dreaming about diving into a pool and he may very well try diving off the bed.


SHEILA : Does that get worked out, as he gets older, though?

THERRY: Well, that all depends. See, you're asking the question as though it were a blanket statement. There is no answer for it.

SHEILA : It sounds like a dangerous thing, then.

THERRY: Of course it could be dangerous. Somnambulism or symbolic or abnormalities are always dangerous.

SHEILA : But, you're saying that it is, you're not just talking about a common thing that would go on with children. Like many children sleepwalk, roll off the bed. You're saying this is something different? Right?

THERRY: Yes. This is a trickle, an overlap in reality.

GERRY: The sitting up in bed and thrashing around and the talking that I do, is there a different relationship between it on this level and my dream state? Are they disconnected or are they connected in the same way that Sam's is?

THERRY: They're connected in the same way that Sam's is.

SHEILA : Which is the trickling down --

THERRY: The overlapping of realities. The placental barrier between the two states of reality is allowing more through than it does under normal circumstances.

GERRY: Was it more pronounced in me at his age?

THERRY: No, it was less pronounced.

GERRY: So, it's actually becoming more as I get older?


GERRY: Is that partly as a result of getting involved in Arkashea on different levels?

THERRY: No, because it began before you got involved with Arkashea. Let's put it this way, it began before you physically came.

GERRY: That's what I mean. When I actually came and met you.

THERRY: It was active even before then. It began to be active when you contacted Arkashea on another level.

GERRY: In this lifetime.

THERRY: Yes. I believe that was, you were about 18, 19.

SHEILA : Is that just something that, you know, mind my own business, or is that something to help him with?

THERRY: There's nothing you can do with it. As a matter of fact if all things are right and if a special relationship develops a certain way, you can learn a lot. And then when he awakens you can teach it to him.

SHEILA : That's great, but what I meant, I mean, you're talking about walking so I got fearful--how crazy can this get, will he walk out of the apartment? Out in the street? You know, you've heard of people doing things like that.

THERRY: That part is simple enough. All you have to do is make arrangements so there's a safe area so when he gets into that safe area you wake him up. Stand in front of him. Let him bump into you.

SHEILA : You mean, we're talking about the middle of the night. When we're both sleeping.

THERRY: So? Lock the door, put bars on the window.

SHEILA : What about when he's ten?

THERRY: You know you're really right. Now is the time to start worrying because he might do it when he's sixty.

SHEILA : All right, okay, okay...

GERRY: Go get a stepladder. (Laughter)

SHEILA : Thank you. Does that screw up your reference points?

THERRY: Who? Worrying?

SHEILA : No, no, his inability --


SHEILA : It doesn't screw up his reference points?

THERRY: No. For a little while he'll be a little disoriented when he goes from one to the other, but not...

SHEILA : Okay. All right. I'm down now.

TINA: Is he aware of the difference of what a dream is and what a, quote, vision is? Does he feel a difference?

THERRY: He feels a difference but he doesn't have the language for it yet.

TINA: But he knows--

THERRY: He feels that there's a difference between a dream and what you call a vision and an alter-reality. He knows, he feels that, but he doesn't have the language to express it so therefore, there's a little bit of disorientation involved.

SHEILA : Well, for instance, the Tim-Therry-Mommy-Daddy thing going back to England, he told it to me in the present tense. He didn't tell it to me like, in fact he never says, 'I want to tell you about a dream that I had last night.' I don't know that he's aware of what a dream even is.

THERRY: Again, he's aware of it. Again, remember his language is not complete yet. So, he can't pinpoint from that point.

SHEILA : Well, is he, when he says, 'the England people did such and such,' or 'I was just in England, does he wake up in a dream, does he wake up from a sleep and have dreams or was he actually sitting here awake in this reality and having a dual awareness?

THERRY: Does it matter?

SHEILA : It's never after sleep. It's always broad daylight when we're sitting around. Just like this. It's always like when he's been up for hours. It's never coming out of sleep.

TINA: Oh, he did one morning.

SHEILA : Oh, he did. That was here. He did, yeah. I'm thinking about New York. It's never that way in New York. You're right, I forgot about that. There was one morning.

TINA: You guys want to ask any more questions about that stuff?


GLORIA: Because we were also having a discussion about ET's. Can we ask you some questions about that?

THERRY: Limited questions.

GLORIA: Um, only because in talking to different people there seems to be conflicting memories of dialogues with you regarding entities that have come and visited here and actually made themselves known to this government and, or another government on this planet and we've heard stories of that sort. As well as stories that they wouldn't bother coming here yet because we're so barbaric they're not going to step foot on this planet until mankind is a lot more advanced because they know what mankind will do to them. So--should I continue?

THERRY: Mm-hmm. I'm waiting until you get past the science fiction part of it.

GLORIA: Well, which is accurate?

THERRY: None, but both.

GLORIA: Oh, okay.

THERRY: There are people from other worlds here, have been for hundreds of years. The rest of it is science fiction. Stuff movies are made out of.

TINA: So when you say make themselves known they wouldn't bother, you mean they just wouldn't tell anybody.

THERRY: Correct. They quietly influence the residents here on a one on one basis more or less to help growth and understanding.

GLORIA: The wheat fields in England. That's being done because eventually they're going to be landing here?

THERRY: What do you hope to gain by that answer?

GLORIA: I'd like to understand what the point is of the signs.

THERRY: If I were to answer the question that you asked would it serve that purpose? Sounds to me like that question is based purely upon curiosity.

GLORIA: Well, we had been discussing the wheat fields; we had been discussing that earlier.

THERRY: I asked you what was the hope of that question. You replied you wanted to understand.


THERRY: If I answered your last question it could either be a yes or a no question. Would that serve to help you understand? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to ask why they're in the shape (tape ends here, flip to side B)...No I won't answer them any more quickly than I answered you. It's just that if you ask useless information you get a useless answer. Yes?

TINA: I don't know anything about wheat fields in England. What are you talking about?

GLORIA: Susan, how would you describe it?

SHEILA : The last time I came down was Brenda had said could you ask Therry about the circadian circles. There're these circles on the fields that appear in different parts of the world where I believe the molecular structure of the grains of grass have been changed and they don't understand quite why.

THERRY: And they're not pure circles.

SHEILA : They're not pure circles?

THERRY: Have you seen them?

SHEILA : No, I don't know anything about it. I was only relaying Brenda's question.

THERRY: They're not pure circles. They're circular, but they're not pure circles. There are other things involved.

TINA: They make patterns you can see--

SHEILA : I don't know anything about them.

THERRY: Some of the patterns if scientists would ever get off their duffs they'll discover that they repeated the same patterns in different places among them being the Plane of Mazda.

TINA: These are just fields of grain that farmers have planted and they're changed or something?

SHEILA : All I know is just what I said because I got the question from Brenda. I, myself, have personally never read about one of these.

GERRY: It's like they took a spaceship and landed in the middle of a field and took off and left an imprint, except rather than a circle there's different patterns in addition to the circles.

TINA: And the grain has radiation and stuff? Residue kind of stuff?

GLORIA: They tried to reproduce it. I saw a show on it. We all saw this show.

GERRY: And it took them something like 36 hours to do it with an entire battalion of--

GLORIA: And it wasn't the exactly the same either, after they flattened it, blew on it, tried to some sort of an energy change to it--

GERRY: And this is stuff that appears like overnight. Like, there'd be no physical way even if you took two thousand scientists who tromp around in the fields all night long trying to make this stuff. And certainly not to change the molecular structure of the grain itself.

GLORIA: And then there's people who will stand out there night after night and view, hoping see a ship or whatever come down that makes these marks.

TINA: You say overnight you mean one day it's normal and the next day it's there?

GERRY: Yeah. Farmer Jones' field number six. He goes out everyday and checks how high his wheat is. He goes out every morning at 6 am, at 6 am he goes out and there's this thing in his wheat field that wasn't there the day before. And these things are appearing strategically all over the world.

TINA: So you were asking what those are? Is that what you mean? Is that a no-no question to ask what they are?

THERRY: I wouldn't answer them because it doesn't help anybody. Beyond the fact of stating that is part of our language, giving a message, there's no need to say anything. Useless information.

TINA: Is it useless to ask who's trying to communicate with whom?

THERRY: Suppose I said the... Would that do anything for you?

TINA: No, well, are aliens trying to communicate with us, or--


SHEILA : There was a book out years ago called Chariots of the Gods.

TINA: Oh yeah. I read that, it was all about in South America; there are what they call airstrips or something.

THERRY: That's the Plane I was talking to you about.

SHEILA : The Mazda?

TINA: Why are choosing such an obscure way to communicate with us?

GERRY: Obscure to you.

TINA: Why not be more direct?

GERRY: Hello, Michelle? It's Polotkus, coming over.

TINA: No, I'm serious.

THERRY: You don't have exactly got friendly governments.

TINA: So, they're just communicating with a certain few?

THERRY: I suppose that's one point of view.

TINA: How come we can't ask about it?

THERRY: You can ask but you can't demand a response from me. Because there are certain things that I will not respond to.

TINA: Is the government aware of all this?

THERRY: Some of the people that were stomping around the fields were government employees. I don't know if the government is aware of it or not.

TINA: Oh, okay. I see.

THERRY: I don't like stupid questions.

SHEILA : Is the same one that hates human food?

THERRY: Yeah. You missed something else that I dislike. I'll be sitting there and I'll be eating a sandwich and invariably some idiot will come by and say 'oh, you eating a sandwich?'

TINA: May I ask something about the dreams thing again?

THERRY: You can try.

TINA: Sometimes when I wake up and I remember a dream, it's a little bit different from just remembering a dream. There's something more vivid.

THERRY: Perhaps it's because it's not a dream.

TINA: That's what I was wondering.

THERRY: Perhaps one of the cues you should be paying attention to is the relative state of reality within each and the difference in-between each could be a cue to let you know perhaps something more than misfiring of the brain is going on.

TINA: Be aware of things inside of you?

THERRY: Well, the average no-nonsense, or the average nonsensical dream or what the average individual calls dreams are basically nothing more than misfiring of brain. Where the individual's tensions and emotions of the day store up energy such as worry, fear, thoughts and these get replayed like a bad tape during the night. And you get all kinds of patterns flowing through. So, a lot of time where there are little sequences that seem to go together, for the majority there's an awful lot of disjointedness. So, those are strictly just dreams. They have a level of reality that is unique to it. But, then again you have two other phenomena. Alter-reality and laboratory. And, when you're into one of those two states, the reality level is different. And this difference that you were speaking of is that.

TINA: Seeming more real.


GERRY: I can definitely feel a difference in a lot of the dreams that I have. Some of them are unbelievably physically and emotionally intense. And--

THERRY: You go into your laboratory an awful lot. You'll have experiences there that somehow you kind of wish you could have here.

GERRY: I have a recurring dream that which seems to always surround a very violent, very militaristic environment. I was talking about this with Wayne today. But my role in it is always one of going to rescue someone who is under siege. Where, being in the midst of it and trying to lead the pack of people who is going to try to get out. It's really on a heroic basis.


GERRY: And at the same time, I'm also really secure within because I know that I may be shot or stabbed, that I may be detonated and blown up or what not but I'll still be able to continue in that I'll wake up in the morning. But, it's still very, very real. That feeling does recur.


GERRY: What's that?

THERRY: We call that the hero syndrome.

GERRY: That would make sense.

THERRY: That's a good stepping point for something more important.

GERRY: From or to?

THERRY: To. Or in to.

GERRY: It's the same dream. There's another dream I always used to have when I was a kid. I would dream about flying. And I wasn't a superhero fan to any real great extent that I can remember but I do remember and to this day I still have flying dreams that have nothing to do with that, you know, just flying dreams. You know, am I fast enough, to the other side of the pool..?

THERRY: Yes. There's a lot of that.

GERRY: They're great. I love them. Now how does that differ, because the difference is immense? I don't really understand it and I would like to understand it more. What I experienced in the altar room.

THERRY: Well, see the basic difference in the altar room; we anchored you to this level. If we had not, you could have just disappeared. You could have shifted your astral plane of common reality.

GERRY: Well, I know it wasn't a dream, so what was it?

THERRY: Just told you. It's an alter-reality.

GERRY: Do you ever have those in a dream state when you're sleeping?

THERRY: Do I ever have any?

GERRY: No. Have I ever had that?

THERRY: It's conceivable, yeah. Like I said your superhero dreams are a good springboard into something much better. But you've got to become more acclimated to the Laws or the rules and the limitations of time and space.

GERRY: To achieve that in a waking state or a sleeping state?

THERRY: To achieve it at all regardless of what state.

GERRY: I think that's the part that made the difference. I knew I wasn't asleep.

THERRY: You know there's a difference when you can get someplace by using somebody else's wings. We simply loaned you our wings but we controlled them. Because we understand time and space. We showed you the possibilities of what can be. Now all you have to do is pay your dues and learn. You have something to shoot for.

GERRY: And the dues are?

THERRY: Learn. Do what the plants do. Bare yourself to the all. Take up what is around you and grow. There's a beautiful phenomena that mankind has. Unfortunately, for all practical purpose none knows how to use it. That's sad. Perhaps you will learn. The phenomena is become a plant. There are enough people around you. There are enough quacks around you that will feed you bullshit that you can use as fertilizer to grow. With reference to that bullshit that people give you, every time and individual gives you an untruth it is information that can be used as a springboard to a greater truth. To seek to understand the why of the bullshit portion will in and of itself teach you something. If along the way you learn to understand, forgive and love then you'll be that much further along. Just because a person walks to the beat of a different drummer does not mean that they are out of time.

TINA: That's the judging thing again, having an idea of what's right and what's wrong.


TINA: Sometimes particularly in those dreams that seem more real, more than just a dream, if it happens to be something that's frightening me the level of it seems really real.

THERRY: Of course, it's really real.

TINA: I mean, I have dreams where I die in my dreams and it doesn't bother me but when it's this dream I feel if it ever got to that point I feel like it could have an effect. Like I could have a heart attack or something. I mean it feels that real. Is there ever any danger of something like that happening, I mean...


TINA: Okay.

THERRY: You're in your laboratory and you're working on fear. Remember we're still working with you on this boogieman syndrome. So, when we go to your laboratory we will often work on that very thing.

TINA: It feels so much more dangerous.

THERRY: Well, fear always does. You got to remember that if the level of the threshold of reality isn't just right then you won't any attention to it. It's got to seem sufficiently real in order to get your attention.

TINA: It makes you feel some completely different.

THERRY: And for each level. You remember the what-if-but?

TINA: Yeah.

THERRY: You remember the part where he says 'if we can escape anytime we want to where's the reality in that. What good is it.' And he says 'ah, we could put veils within which we can create reality and you wouldn't know it.' The levels or reality have to be such that it has to catch your attention. It's another way of saying levels of proof.


THERRY: Because if you think in your own way the question that you always ask everybody is 'prove it. Is it real?' That's what you're dealing with.

SHEILA : Do we have completely different fears on each level or is the pattern the same on every level? Our particular fears.

THERRY: It depends upon what you're working with.

SHEILA : Um, what do you mean?

THERRY: Just what I said.

SHEILA : Depends on what you're working with? You mean what fear you're working with?

THERRY: Whatever the scenario. Obviously if you're afraid of burning your finger when you're making candy it will be totally different if you're afraid that your mother's going to run away with the ice man and breed a whole lot of children and share your inheritance with them and you ain't' going to get nothing. I mean, those fears are totally different.

SHEILA : But, but aren't they patterns, symbols?

THERRY: You didn't ask me about that. You asked me about is fear different. Fear is different depending on what you're working in.

SHEILA : Okay, it's different but in terms of patterns.

THERRY: The patterns themselves are seemingly endless depending upon the illusion you're playing with at the time. You can fear for your dog, your cat, and your goldfish. Food poison, I mean the patterns are almost endless. It all depends on what you're playing with at the time. The only thing that is necessary for you to know is that it's not accidental.

SHEILA : Fears?

THERRY: The scenarios. You don't get into a scenario accidentally. There are no accidents.

SHEILA : A fear scenario?

THERRY: Any scenario.

SHEILA : Any scenario.

GLORIA: Speaking about some fear scenarios, when I'm totally devastated and I yell, 'Therry' and you come and take me out.

JACKIE: I was going to ask you some questions about the laboratory. Who controls the experiences we have? Is it up to each individual?

THERRY: I'm not at all certain I want to answer that one because you might not like the answer.

JACKIE: The reason I ask is because earlier I heard you say 'we' in the laboratory.

THERRY: You got your answer.

JACKIE: And I heard 'we', so you go there and mix all the ingredients...

THERRY: But it's not totally that way. Because there is free will involved as well. You know, just because I mix the brew doesn't mean you have to drink it.

JACKIE: But I want to grow. So, I'll take it, you know.

THERRY: That's beside the point. At least you got your answer. Obviously we are limited in terms of where we can hold our classrooms. We're limited strictly because the student must walk into the classroom at his own volition. But, once in the classroom now he's got to obey the rules of class. But, you do have your answer. I'm surprised you asked that question.

JACKIE: Well, I wanted to make sure my own answer....

THERRY: But, we made it so blatant for you over and over and over.

JACKIE: But I know that --

THERRY: Not only in the laboratory but in this reality, too. Or are you forgetting all these little blips that we come and turn you around on.

JACKIE: Give me one example of a blip.

THERRY: I wasn't going to go here because I didn't think I'd be able to sell anything, and all of a sudden Therry comes and (snaps his fingers) all of a sudden.

JACKIE: Oh, yeah.

THERRY: Is that good enough?

JACKIE: Oh, okay.

THERRY: You may as well tell them now because they're in the dark. They don't understand what it is that you went through.

JACKIE: When I sometimes go out for a sale I can sense his presence, more energy there, and sometimes I would get real, real nervous and I can't figure out why but I just sense a different energy that around me. At first I thought 'oh, you know, Therry's little helpers spying on my,' making sure I do my sales route. It's like extra help sometimes.

THERRY: Well, sometimes it's a little bit more like a kicking the ass.

JACKIE: I wouldn't show like, uh, one of the fanny packs. I might forget then when I see the energy I think, I'd better get moving, do my stuff right because I'm being watched.

PIERRE: If you want to kick mine one day, you're welcome. (Laughter)

THERRY: You haven't signed the contract yet. I can't.


GERRY: The times when I dream that I'm actually aware of waking up, remembering where is was, consciously making an effort of getting back to that point, is that the laboratory as well?

THERRY: A lot of times, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. Sometimes it's an unfinished scenario and Karma brings you back.

GERRY: Is the laboratory a good place to be?

THERRY: It's neither good nor bad. It's simply a classroom.

SHEILA : Would somebody who has no interest in learning go there?


GERRY: So, it's a step?


GERRY: What is the next step?

THERRY: The laboratory is a wondrous classroom. It's from K to post-graduate.

GLORIA: Even you use the laboratory for learning?


GERRY: Is it something that you use only while your physical body is asleep?


GERRY: Is the daydreaming that we do on a daily basis a part of that? Or could it be a part of that?

THERRY: Can be, but usually it's a fantasy.

SHEILA : Is fantasy on this level or is it?

THERRY: No. Fantasies are on the mental level.

SHEILA : Mental.

GERRY: I sometimes feel that I try to use that as an escape because I'm pissed off at what's going on on this level.

THERRY: Well, you have a consolation prize. So does everybody else.

SHEILA : Which is what?

THERRY: Use fantasies as an escape.

SHEILA : Oh, oh.

GERRY: I'm beginning to feel bullied.

THERRY: By whom and what?


THERRY: Why? I don't tell you how to live your life.

GERRY: No. You don't. I just feel bullied.

THERRY: Perhaps I'm serving as a mirror for you right now.

GERRY: Umm...

THERRY: Perhaps you are looking at something you feel you should do but don't want to do, but you have to do. Much like...perhaps it's not unlike a pattern that you once had to deal with your dad.

GERRY: Can you tell me what that is?

THERRY: I just did. You recognizing something that you feel that you have to do, but rather than accept that you feel you have to do it's easier to claim that somebody else is forcing you to look at something you have to do. Perhaps you need to look at how can you feel or why should you feel bullied if the so-called bully says and does nothing.

GERRY: It still leaves me with the feeling of being bullied.

THERRY: I can accept that but perhaps that feeling is from you.

GERRY: I'm sure it is.

THERRY: Perhaps it might help you to understand if you looked at that point of it, since I want nothing from you, expect nothing from you. I demand nothing from you except for one thing. The only thing that I want from you is that you obey the first two laws. Everything else I couldn't care less. You're familiar with what those two laws are?

GERRY: I'm sure I am but --

THERRY: Do your own thinking and never do anything you feel or think is wrong. That's the only thing I want from you. Everything else I couldn't care less what you do.

GERRY: It's not that I feel it's wrong. It's just that I feel it's unfair.

THERRY: Unfair? (Therry chuckles) Since when has life ever been fair?

GERRY: Exactly my point.

THERRY: Well, why blame me? I didn't create life.

GERRY: I'm not blaming it on you.

THERRY: Is it perhaps a phenomena that used to exist in the old days where you used to kill the messenger?

GERRY: It fits in with my predisposition.

THERRY: Oh, I can accept that. I can accept that totally.

GERRY: But I still don't like it.


GERRY: I don't like it.

THERRY: I accept that too. That reminds me of a very amusing anecdote. These two cars are at a red light. The driver of car number two is standing there blowing his horn. So the driver of car number one gets out his car goes to the car behind him knocks on the window and says, 'I tell you what. I'll stay here and blow your horn for you and you go up there and change that red light. Okay?' Perhaps you're laying gifts at my feet that don't belong to me.

GERRY: When I talked with Glo the other day. Actually it was this morning because obviously we have a common denominator, which is acting; what suddenly made her decide to bag it.

THERRY: Yeah. You're still playing the same record.

GERRY: I know.

THERRY: At least I didn't have a chance. Yeah, but who blew that?

GERRY: I guess that's part of the problem

THERRY: What's part of the problem?

GERRY: I still have a hard time (sigh)...time in--

THERRY: You still haven't answered my question.

GERRY: What?

THERRY: Who blew that?

GERRY: Well, you're telling me it was me.

THERRY: Okay. Perhaps, therefore, you should seek to understand how you blew it. 'Cause you did blow it. Hmm?

GERRY: All right. How did I blow it?

THERRY: You got distracted from your field. Theater is a very, very, very jealous god. You paid attention to another woman. The woman called marriage.

GERRY: But there are tons of people who do both.

THERRY: Bullshit.

GERRY: You're telling me that for me--

THERRY: Bullshit. You ain't tons of people.

GERRY: That's what you're saying. For me that's not a possibility.

THERRY: Not only for, you for hundreds.