Arkashean Q&A Session -- 060

SHEENA: Example?

THERRY: Well, lets say you're learning from Arkashea, and let's say that Arkashea has just one demand from you. You cannot wear the color purple.

SHEENA: Right.

THERRY: Well, if you go to war because of whatever, cause you want to wear purple and you try to find all kinds of excuses of why you should be able to wear purple, because Arkashea's teaching you laws of creation, and they're supposed to be free, they're not supposed to have anything attached to them, blah, blah, blah; well obviously, your halo has become a noose.

SHEENA: And I would think that would start tarnishing other aspects of your life.


SHEENA: You say, like a chain reaction.


SHEENA: You start selling out in one area, you'll start selling out in other areas.

THERRY: Yea the more you sell, the easier it becomes to sell. That's correct. Is that it.

SHEENA: No. You need to learn all about your emotions before you can go up the upper realms, yet you have to use your emotions in order to learn. Part of the Magic Circle, you said.


SHEENA: And I think, okay, that sounds fine, but what does it mean?

THERRY: Sounds like gobbly-gook, doesn't it.

SHEENA: I don't quite understand it, no.

THERRY: Okay, if you go back and look at the fact that, the law states that that which exists within the Chi must be dual in its nature and triune in its effects. That includes the illusion called man the specie and man the individual. Which means that man the individual has more than one part to him; he's divided. Not only is his mind divided, but so is his body, since they both share in the phenomenon called the individual. But, if we look at the law, the human body, basically, is nothing more than a chemical factory; that's all it is. There is no logic there. But the human mind, on the other hand, while it may function by chemicals, basically it is not a chemical reaction; it uses chemical reactions to make decisions, etc. So the brain is basically a chemical factory, but the mind is not. So, based on that, you could see very apparently the dicodmy that exists within man the individual. There is the logical part, which belongs to the awareness factor, which is what we call thinking. But the law says that patterns repeat themselves, so it means, also, that that same phenomenon must exist on the lower levels. Well, the thinking process of the human body we call emotions. The emotions is the logic of the physical body, the same way as the thoughts is the logic of the mind through the mechanism of awareness. So the mechanism of awareness is on multiple levels.

SHEENA: Okay, I think maybe I'm getting a picture. Your emotions give you mobility.

THERRY: Bingo.

SHEENA: And, if you don't have control of those emotions, though, you won't be able to use them correctly, to get to the Upper Realms.

THERRY: Correct. And thus you will modify and otherwise limit your mobility.

SHEENA: Actually this does make sense. You learn all about them, and yet you have to use the emotions in order to learn --

THERRY: Again, this particular law points out how you're dealing with a fabric.

SHEENA: Right, it's so intertwined.

THERRY: So many different levels. Because, remember, you couldn't even change your mind if it wasn't for mobility. It is the mobility factor that allows you to do all types of changes.

SHEENA: It's really kind of lovely, actually; I don't know why, but it just suddenly seemed lovely.


SHEENA: I mean, it's so ordered.

THERRY: Exactly. Law usually is. And again, it's a very big phenomenon whereby you have the presence and the absence. If you think in most situations in your life, and in most illusions, the guiding force quite often is the presence of emotions, or the absence of emotions; or the presence of thought, or the absence of thought. How many divorce cases come into being because a phenomenon whereby the emotions are absent, or the emotions are present?

SHEENA: With one it could be present wanting absence, the other could have absence wanting presence.

THERRY: Exactly, it's a whole continuum.

SHEENA: I see, as you learn all about your emotions in order to learn --

THERRY: You use the emotions. Because you cannot have, or you cannot live on this particular level without living using your body, which is nothing more than emotions.

SHEENA: So, whenever you, as you most of the time are saying to people, is `get rid of your damned emotions! Leave your emotions outside; we don't want them here!' You're speaking very specially of the negative emotions --

THERRY: No, I'm speaking very specifically of not allowing the emotions to have control over the future.

SHEENA: `Cause as you just said, you can't do anything on this level without your emotions.

THERRY: Exactly. Emotions are necessary. They must be guarded; they must be allowed to develop; but like any errant child, they must be taught what their place is. They must be taught to operate fully functional, but within limits. If you do not teach your emotions their proper limits, like any child, they will take control, and you will have no --

SHEENA: Right, you lose the control and they control you.

THERRY: Right.

SHEENA: Could that fall into the other law -- you are possessed by your emotions, you don't possess them?

THERRY: Exactly. But, you can see, if you look at all these laws, they're all intricately mixed; they are nothing more than, each law deals with one thread of the fabric which makes up your illusions.

SHEENA: For instance, if you want to be able to understand what goes on in another person's mind, as opposed to your own, you need to have a certain amount of control over your emotions, instead of them controlling you, in order so you can do that other law.

THERRY: Well, it goes even deeper than that. The claim to uniqueness demands that you can never know anything except yourself. Therefore, if you want to know something about somebody else, you must know something about yourself, and use what you know about yourself to make inferences about somebody else, and that's as far

JACKIE: Why does it take some people, like they're twenty years old and they know exactly what they want, what some other individuals seem to kind of uh --

THERRY: Maybe it's their background; maybe it's their history. Maybe it's their Karma. In either case, it's unimportant.

JACKIE: So, what causes me at this point not to actually know what I want to do with my life?

THERRY: Your history.

JACKIE: History in reference to what?

THERRY: Family; the games that they play, and your value systems.

JACKIE: Well, usually in the family you're supposed to be what daddy, mommy wants you to be when you --


JACKIE: Now you don't question that. It's just a matter of fact you will go to college and that's what makes mom and dad proud of you and that's what makes them happy.

THERRY: Yep. And, add on top of that the fact that the culture that you come from is different from the culture that you're trying to get into. So, there are cultural differences, and cultural values that you're still fighting with.

JACKIE: Give me one example. Will one example be the fact that you do as your parents say and --


JACKIE: Not think for yourself.

THERRY: Plus the extended family as opposed to the individual family. You're from Panama; they have a lot of ways that are different from ours. For one thing they are extremely emotional. We, on the other hand, are no where near that level of emotionality.

JACKIE: I know my mother is very emotional.

THERRY: Yes. So, you haven't settled that war totally, either.

JACKIE: You mean the emotions?


JACKIE: I thought I had that almost under control.

THERRY: Almost ain't good enough.

JACKIE: Total?

THERRY: Yep. The reason why you assume so much is because of the emotions. There's more than one way of becoming emotional.

JACKIE: Even when you think you're unemotional, you're emotional.


JACKIE: `Cause you're playing the unemotional game.

THERRY: Right. Hence, you're dealing with the presence and the absence, and how each interact with the drama of the situation. That's the Now-effect.

JACKIE: Well, why couldn't I have met you earlier? I mean, like when I was eighteen, or fifteen, or right out of highs school? Right before high school?

THERRY: Isn't it kind of useless to cry over spilled milk?

JACKIE: No, I thought, gosh, you know, I wouldn't have made all of these mistakes if I would have met you before then.

THERRY: Perhaps if you had, you wouldn't have appreciated it. Perhaps at that time your mind was on a different vein; perhaps you needed all of these experiences in order to be able appreciate what you have now.

JACKIE: Just depends what I'm learning.

THERRY: Whatever.

JACKIE: Well, have I been with Arkashea before, or is it just this lifetime?

THERRY: Does it matter?

JACKIE: No, nothing, something like that, nothing really matters, cause a lot of these answers that you're telling me I have read, and it's just a matter of possibilities that you're throwing at me, and I thought, well, I've got all these other possibilities now --

THERRY: There called patterns.

JACKIE: Okay, patterns.

THERRY: And therefore, it is not what somebody tells you that is important, it is what you tell yourself that is important. Because that is what's going to create your reality. You have to remember that nobody can do anything for you; they simply can offer you a different point of view. If there's going to be any changes, you're the one that's going to have to make them.

JACKIE: But you always keep saying, what do you want to be when you grow up, and I thought, please, I'm already grown up, you know --

THERRY: Well, you're seeing that you ain't. You may have been grown up chronologically, but you're not grown up emotionally. You still have many areas of uncertainty.

JACKIE: But I thought that the big thing in life when you grow up was being able to know exactly what kind of job you want to do.

THERRY: That's only along one thread. There's more than one thread to being an adult.

JACKIE: So, which thread is --

THERRY: Vocation is only one. There's emotions, there's intellectuals, there's spirituality. All of them put together, interacting with the society that you choose to live in, all go together to form what your reality will be, and all together will determine your state of relative contentment.

JACKIE: Is that, I thought, I had to start my foundation all over again.

THERRY: Yea; many people have to do that.

JACKIE: So, basically what your saying, what you want to be when you grow up, don't you mean specifically job related?


JACKIE: So in my case it would be emotional?

THERRY: No, it would be the whole fabric; what we just spoke of.

JACKIE: So, basically, it's how you see your reality as a whole.


JACKIE: Your total being.

THERRY: Yes. Up to and including your self image.

JACKIE: I wish I could be good at one thing; really good at that. I thought that was one of the purposes for growing up, was actually being able to stick to something all the way through, but then I found out, like you were saying, my emotions, I'm spurned by my emotions, and then they die out, and the situation dies out; gets boring, or it fizzles out, or I'm ready to make a change.

THERRY: Because you're not grown up yet. Some people don't grow up until they're about sixty or seventy years old.

JACKIE: Well, I can't wait that long.

THERRY: Well, that's for you to determine.

JACKIE: See, I thought I would be dead by then.

THERRY: Seems to me you won't be dead until you die. Equally, it seems to me it doesn't matter when you grow up, so long as you do. If it means it's not destined to happen until you're eighty, that's okay too, so long as it happens. The Universe doesn't put you on a time table where you have to do something at a specific time; that's not the way it works. Each game will last but forever. You know the definition of the word forever, don't you?

JACKIE: Um-hum.

THERRY: What is it?

JACKIE: Until, don't tell me -- until however much time it takes.

THERRY: Right. However long it takes. It's four words -- however long it takes.

JACKIE: However long it takes. I just can't see why things can't happen now( Therry chuckles) Why do we have to go through this slow process?

THERRY: Well, if you're in the whys, why not extend it and play a few more games such as why weren't we born rich instead of handsome? Why isn't the moon made out of green cheese, that way nobody has to starve.

JACKIE: So, basically, I will know when I grow up when I feel it? See I thought a lot of things were based on your emotions. You know how people say, well you, you know, if you decide to be a doctor, I mean you'll feel this great craving in your heart that that's truly what you want to be.

THERRY: It doesn't work that way.

JACKIE: See, my emotions are not in with my jobs.

THERRY: Yep. It doesn't work that way. Why don't you investigate seeing how you would like being a lawyer.

JACKIE: That was what I was going to ask you, if the Universe was to chose an area that they feel I would be happier.

THERRY: I can't tell you that until you have grown up enough to become an Observer. Once you become an Observer then, by law, you have to accept whatever assignment we give you. And I can't tell you what those assignments would be until that day would come.

JACKIE: So, looking into the possibility of being a lawyer for what purpose?

THERRY: Why don't you just investigate it. Who knows, you might like it.

JACKIE: Another thing that I'm wondering about is my flying. There's no emotion to it. You know, I go out there and it's automatic, and, the emotions are not there, so sometimes the motivation might not be there. Am I placing my emphasis in the wrong --

THERRY: Not really. Perhaps you're simply recognizing that it is just a tool; you don't put attachments to tools; you use them.

JACKIE: That's why I'm -- I'm very detached. I don't have this --

THERRY: That's fine; there's nothing wrong with that. One should never fall in love with their tools. Tools, you use them when you need them; when you don't need them, you just put them away. There's nothing wrong with that.

JACKIE: So, for right now, I'm going to ask you this question before I forget( that line was hard to understand -- not sure if correct) There's a, I call a hesitant, sometimes if I'm doing a task, I'll deviate. Why is that, my own energy that I'm using to put off what I should do, or is that my ego?

THERRY: Could be either.

JACKIE: Playing priority.

THERRY: Could be either. Could also be that somewhere inside of you your telling yourself, well, I'm only going to end up throwing it away anyway, so why should I bother? Could be any of them. Investigate becoming a lawyer. Your life might become easier.

JACKIE: Cause it's gotten to the point that at work I'm putting, I'm hesitating now, where before we did the work with three people, now I can barely catch up; I can feel like something, the energy just going urrrr. And I'm trying to see if I can get something different; I want to make sure the pattern doesn't repeat itself, that I will find that great job that's gonna make me happy. At least the knowledge that I'm learning will be also a growth process for me; that's the key. And that comes with interacting with people, `cause I like doing that, And, when you talk about being a lawyer, you interact with people, and paperwork.

THERRY: You interact with the justice system in order to help people. You can serve people who otherwise cannot serve themselves.

JACKIE: Did I still have any symptoms from the face of the cradle?

THERRY: Everybody does.


THERRY: It's a pattern that everybody deals with. It's the basis of the war that exists between an individual and their primary reference group.

JACKIE: `Cause I felt I had to overcome a lot of information that was pounded into me from my mother. Why was that? Was that -- you're just going to say it's karmic or it's -- you're just going to go into all that --

THERRY: Uh-huh. That's correct.

JACKIE: So, when people come and ask you specific questions --

THERRY: They don't always have specific answers. Depends on the level in which the game must be played. Obviously if you're a baby, you have to be acculturated, and you're going to be acculturated according to the values of your parents. Later on you may change that because you may have differences with it, but it doesn't change the fact that you're still going to have it, simply because they are your parents. Hence the face of the cradle comes in.

THERRY: That's not part of the discussion either.

JACKIE: Okay, I just changed it. (laughter) I just changed it because I thought, well, you know, if someone who cares about their parents can go and see them, then I --

THERRY: Yea, that's not necessary; you can honor your father and your mother without having to see them all the time. You can honor them without being their slaves, you know?

JACKIE: Well, I've gotten out of being a slave for Mom.

THERRY: Well, not entirely.

JACKIE: Really? I'm still influenced? But I just feel --

THERRY: `Cause if you had gotten out of it, she wouldn't still have such an emotional influence over you.

JACKIE: She don't call me anymore; she used to call me every Saturday. She stopped.

THERRY: Uh-huh.

JACKIE: Two weeks ago. She has this thing, I guess, that I disappointed her.

THERRY: Big deal. You didn't come here to live her life; you came here to live yours. She's here to live her own. She doesn't have the right to expect you to live her life.

JACKIE: Well, will one day I be able to learn the same things that Tim or Wayne are learning?


JACKIE: I just want to know how long this process takes.

THERRY: Forever.

THERRY: Okay, go ahead.

CORA: Well, I basically went to war all week, which you probably already know.

THERRY: Yea. Turn the fan on.

CORA: But it bothers me.

THERRY: I don't see why; nothing new.

CORA: Well, that's true, except usually I guess I decide about whether it's right or it's wrong, and I do it one way or another.

THERRY: That's just part of your learning curve; I mean, you've done that ever since I've known you.

CORA: Yea, but I don't want to not wear purple. But, if I did wear purple, would you still be my teacher?


CORA: Would you still teach me math?


CORA: You would?

THERRY: Of course.

CORA: Well, I was afraid you wouldn't talk to me anymore.

THERRY: Why? If you want to insult the processes, that's between you and the Universes, got nothing to do with me.

CORA: Well, because you're always right, I figured you might be right on this. But I can't really see it for myself. I mean intellectually I can understand what you said; emotionally, it doesn't really feel like anything to me one way or another.

THERRY: I can understand that; you've never held anything sacred in your life, why should you begin now?

CORA: Well, I didn't wear purple all week, but I was at war about it because I wanted to do it, and --

THERRY: You might as well have worn it.

CORA: Well, that's what I wondered, because --

THERRY: To do the right things for the wrong reasons is the same as doing the wrong things for the right reasons.

CORA: But I put on a purple shirt to see what would happen, it wasn't all purple. I thought that was kind of sacrilegious, but I put one that had purple in it, because I really didn't think that was as big of a deal, and, ah, but then that felt strange, but that was probably because I was guilty, so I took it off. But then I went shopping for clothes because I was going to do that anyway, and of course, everything that I saw that I liked had purple in it, because that's the color that I'm attracted to. It's not really dark purple; it's shades of lavender, and I guess, magenta. And, to top it off, I couldn't tell my shades anyway, so the things I did like I wasn't sure, so then I'd get all nervous when I'd try something on, and then I was mad that I had to go through the whole process anyway. And I could see that the whole process was ridiculous, and I could see that it's me; that I was going to war, that I was attached to these material possessions, that it was a bad attitude; but I also wondered if it was a bad attitude, then I guess I'm really a distant Arkashean anyway, or else I'd want to do it, right?

THERRY: Correct.

CORA: That's what I figured. So, did I just fall from peripheral to distant because I had a bad attitude, or was I distant before then?

THERRY: You probably were distant before then.

CORA: I just didn't notice it because I had different refer -- I had --I didn't have clear common denominators?


CORA: Well, is it really -- if you want to do something anyway, but you don't because someone tells you that it's wrong, is that better than not doing it at all?


CORA: Why?

THERRY: Well, let's see if we can look at that in different levels. Say you want to murder somebody, but somebody tells you no, don't go murder somebody because it's wrong. Isn't that a whole lot better then if you went out and murdered them?

CORA: Yes, but isn't that different?

THERRY: Does it matter if it is a murder, or if it is a simple thing like wearing purple? Aren't they both exactly the same?

CORA: No, one thing's hurting somebody else; the other thing's not.

THERRY: You mean, you ain't somebody?

CORA: Yea, okay, I'm somebody.

THERRY: So then it doesn't matter if you end up being hurt somehow?

CORA: Yea, it does matter.

THERRY: Then what is the difference between them? Somebody's going to get hurt in both cases.

CORA: Well, if I've worn it all this time, does that mean I've been hurting myself every time I've worn it?


CORA: And, yet I've never noticed that. Does being hurt, when you say that, does that mean what, being limited?

THERRY: I think you've noticed it. You've just refused to accept it as the reason for being hurt. How often have you been talking about how your power is not steady?

CORA: Yea, that's true.

THERRY: What do you want the Universe to do, write it in great big black letters in the sky for you to read? Wear purple and we'll diminish your powers?

CORA: So, when I wear it they're diminished, and when I don't it comes stronger?

THERRY: Depending on how it's done, yea.

CORA: I mean, I know my power was diminished this week because I was totally at war with everything. I mean, so that seemed even more ridiculous; I mean, I was more grounded this week then I've ever been wearing purple. And I knew it was because I was at war.

THERRY: Just think of the fun you had.

CORA: It wasn't fun, but I couldn't seem to stop it. I knew it was my priorities, but I knew I was also attached to not liking limits, and to wanting what I want.

THERRY: So your dad's teachings are really strong, ain't they?

CORA: They are. Okay, I'll have to say yes, and they're not as strong when I can really see for myself exactly what's going on, because then I'm more willing to change. I mean I could see when you told me about jewelry because it was a difference in my chain, and I'd vowed not to wear jewelry with my chain, so I didn't want to, even though I wanted to wear jewelry for a long time after that. And I guess also I transferred my attachment from jewelry to clothes. I figured I can't wear jewelry but I can wear clothes, so I kinda placed all that on clothes. And now clothes are being limited and I don't like it, and I'm not really willing to give it up at this point.

THERRY: So, don't give it up. It's no skin off my nose.

CORA: I say that, but I haven't been comfortable wearing the stuff that's purple either at this point. But then I also started wondering a couple different things which was why sacrifice anything for spirituality, because I'd really never questioned that before.

THERRY: That's something you have to decide for yourself.

CORA: Well, that's true, but I'm not sure where to get any answers. What I did was I bought two books, one on mysticism and one on religions of the world. The mysticism had one thing in it that might have been an answer, and it said, it was a chapter on mysticism and magic, and it said that that when you give something up for an idea, it makes the idea stronger. Is that true?

THERRY: In some cases, yea.

CORA: Well, is that why Arkasheans give things up?


CORA: No? Because I thought that made sense, but then I thought well, if I did it with the reference point then that's not respecting Pharaoh's office; that's doing it for a totally different reason.

THERRY: Um-hum.

CORA: So I wasn't sure that that was the right thing to do either.

THERRY: Um-hum.

CORA: But it said that that's where religion's things come from, and it also said that it was the training of the will. That's what it is? Can you answer in language for the tape?

THERRY: That is one of the big big big big reasons. You have to bear in mind that illusions are the driving force for reality, therefore what you hold in your heart and what you hold in your mind is going to control what exists in reality for you on all levels. If you can't control your illusions, much less how your going to control your reality? Especially on other levels where thought is the creator. It's a case of who's going to control you, your thoughts, or your emotions?

CORA: Well I know I let my emotions win an awful lot of the time when I have these struggles.

THERRY: Ninety-nine percent of the time.

CORA: Because for the first time I noticed the pattern that --

THERRY: It's a good beginning.

CORA: That I have a struggle between I guess what's logic, or what I think I should do, although in this case I don't really -- I do intellectually understand the thing of respect as I did say before, but it was a struggle between two parts of myself and it felt like emotions versus something else; I guess logic would be the other label. And I remembered these feelings when it was a woman that I wasn't supposed to see, and of course I saw her, and when I was supposedly being trained not to be gay, and I decided to be gay. And I'm sure I've limited myself every time I've done it. But I guess it felt better to have ended every time I've done it too. But, you know, I mean, I guess in the long term if I could see more things, I'd see more of what it limited me from, but I can't right now.

THERRY: Plus there's one more thing that you haven't thought of. Each time you gave in, it made it that much easier to continue giving in. And much harder to fight it off.

CORA: That's probably true.

THERRY: Definitely true.

CORA: I guess that's what you talk about when you talk about the first step, because the one place I haven't done that, is I have never brought somebody out, that I know of; and I'm always very careful to ask them a lot of questions, even if it seems nosey; and it's never been easy for me to do it, as if I haven't done it, and I don't really have that struggle because I guess it's always been just no; not maybe, not anything else. And it doesn't really bother me, even when I really like someone.

THERRY: Therefore you know the difference.

CORA: You mean I know the difference between --

THERRY: Saying no, as opposed to maybe.

CORA: Yea, well I've said no to drugs, and I guess it doesn't tempt me anymore, but I also knew it was a good thing to get rid of them, even though sometimes I'm tempted to run away from pain --

THERRY: It doesn't change the fact that when it's things that you particularly want, you don't say no, you always say maybe, which always ends up yes. Every time you attempt to say no, you always get into what if, what if, what if this, what if that. Or what -- is it the same in this set of circumstances, is it the same in that set -- everything to try to get around it until finally it's maybe, yes, of course. That way I can end the war.

CORA: I noticed I did that this time too. But I recognized that I did it, so I decided that was a stupid thing to do because if I wanted to do it I should just be honest and do it.

THERRY: I agree.

CORA: And then I didn't do it because, because I was going to wait and see how I felt about it. And I guess as time goes on the emotions have left, although it's still started me on the question. What I started off using as a rationalization ended up being a question that I really had never asked before which was why do people do these things; why have I done `em? I mean I've always done them without really asking myself.

THERRY: Remember, that in order to be totally honest, that question is a double-edged.

CORA: How so? Because I could use it as a rationalization?

THERRY: No. If you ask the question, why should people give things up for spirituality, if you want to be totally honest you must also ask, why shouldn't they give it up for spirituality. Remember the law, All which exists within the Chi must be dual in its nature and triune in its effects. So, if you ask for one side, such as why should you, you must also ask why shouldn't you, and you must seek the answer to both of them honestly.

CORA: That's a good point; I wouldn't have thought of that. That is a good point. So far that sentence in that book was the only thing that I've seen. It said that will-let's see if I can remember exactly what it said --it said that a slovenly will was mans worst enemy.

THERRY: Yes. All that is saying is an individual who cannot say no because they're stuck with maybes, that's the biggest enemy they have, because the war is between the two sides of an individual. Again it gets back to the law: That which exists in within the Chi must be dual. In this particular case the duality is it's either going to be wisdom that rules, or it's going to be emotions that rule, and the battle is between them at all times. Every time that you say maybe, you give rein to the emotions.

CORA: I've realized how attached I am still to my possessions.

THERRY: It's a beginning.

CORA: And that they give me a great deal of security.

THERRY: It's a beginning. I think you'll discover you are in error, though. Cause they don't give you security; they give you the illusion of security.

CORA: You're right; that's more accurate. Because I was thinking the other day, when I thought that, that that's not really true, but it still felt emotionally like it was true.

THERRY: Um-hum. That's the illusionary aspects of it. The only thing that can really truly give you security is wisdom.

CORA: So, Arkasheans, when we give up things, even if I was calling myself a distant Arkashean, is it still right to say we?


CORA: When we give up things, and when the Cloister people give up things, it's all to train their will?


CORA: For other levels?


CORA: Now, how come that works?

THERRY: Because of various laws that deal with barriers.

CORA: Can you give an example?

THERRY: What is loosed into the illusion shall be loosed into reality.

CORA: So how does giving up something you like apply to that law?

THERRY: Well, it's a case of applying levels of value to various things. Value is one of the ways that humans attach sacredness to things. That which is held sacred, you just don't play with it; you just don't fool with it at all. That which is relatively valueless you play with a lot; you trade off. Case in point: let's say you met this absolutely beautiful lady. I mean, that lady was everything you ever wanted. And somebody came up to you and said, okay, I'll make it possible for you to have that lady, but you have to pay me. And you say, okay, what is it that you want? Give me your soul. Would you trade?



CORA: Because it's not worth the price.

THERRY: Why? Is your soul more sacred then that lady is?

CORA: Yes.

THERRY: Look at all the fun you could have with her.

CORA: Doesn't matter.

THERRY: So, it's a case of sacredness, isn't it.

CORA: Is that the feeling of sacredness?

THERRY: Um-hum. Something that you just do not play with; you do not harm in any way, you do not put in harm's way in any form. Cast not pearls before swines. What if this lady wanted to come up to you, and started playing with you, rubbing herself all over you, and wanting to kiss you, and wanting to spend time with you, what would you do?

CORA: Well, if she did it of her own free-will, then I guess there's nothing wrong with it, but if it's --

THERRY: Uh-uh. The price was in order for you to have her, you have to pay me the price.

CORA: That applies across the board? So she doesn't have any free-will?

THERRY: Of course not. There's no such thing as free-will on earth; it's all an illusion. Doesn't matter what she chooses to do, the point is if you are going to have her, either way, in any form, you must pay me that price.

CORA: Then I'd get up and leave the room.

THERRY: Now, while it don't seem apparent, that's the way you should think in all things. That it doesn't matter if somebody else does something, within their free-will, or without of their free-will; it doesn't change the fact that the minute you get involved, you have to pay a price for it. Doesn't matter if it is that lady, or if it is a washing machine, or if it is wearing purple, or if it is ah, bringing somebody out; it doesn't matter what it is. One hundred percent of everything that you end up getting you have to pay a price for. That's where your trade-off comes in. Are you holding it sacred, or is it just something to satisfy your emotions? Maybe the something is just feminine power. But you still have to pay a price for it. So, if these feminists comes around, they do the same things. They say, well, we'll do this, and we'll do that, and we'll have all of this stuff; we'll succeed, we'll gain what we want; laws will be passed. There's no difference between that as opposed to having that nice lady play with you. They're still going to have to pay the price.

CORA: That's true. The prices come in different forms and are on different levels.

THERRY: Yes. But it is a price nonetheless. Nothing is free.

CORA: Yep. The other part of the sentence besides strengthening the will was it said it separates you from reality, from the material world.

THERRY: Holding it sacred.

CORA: Holding it sacred? What do you mean?

THERRY: They're talking about holding things sacred; things that are sacred are not mundane; that separates it.

CORA: Okay, but separating yourself from the material world?

THERRY: Where IT is concerned.

CORA: So, like giving something up that you like, which part is sacred? The thing --I don't understand.

THERRY: That part of you that belongs to that sacrifice is separated from the mundane.

CORA: But you should only do it if you can do it with love in your heart, right?


CORA: What if you can't?

THERRY: Then you're doing the right things for the wrong reasons.

CORA: Will doing the right things for the wrong reasons eventually help you figure out to do them for the right reasons?

THERRY: Maybe with time. It all depends on if you insist on going to war. So long as that war exists, no, it won't. And it won't begin to until after the war's over.

CORA: Sometimes with me, the war doesn't end until after I do what my emotions want.

THERRY: That's the way it is. Then it's too late.

CORA: Well, is it too late if you realize it, and then change?


CORA: Why?

THERRY: Well, let's say the deed now is murder.

CORA: Okay --

THERRY: Once you have already pulled the trigger --

CORA: --in that pattern it's --

THERRY: No, all of it is the same. Can you ever ever take back something you've already done?

CORA: No, okay, but if I wore purple for the next year, and for some reason at some point figured out why you're really not supposed to wear it, and could give it up without being mad about it, and just never put it on again, then --

THERRY: Will you be able to get back what you lost because of wearing it?


THERRY: Need I say more? Nothing is for free.

CORA: And if I didn't wear it, but I was mad about it, then I'd still lose what I would have lost if I wore it, right?

THERRY: Not necessarily, no.


THERRY: No. What you -- the Karma that you'd accrue would be something else other than the wearing of the shades. Obviously if the law states don't grab hold to electricity, `cause if you do, you're going to get killed, well you can sit there and go at war and be angry for twenty years, but you still won't be killed until you touch that electricity.

CORA: That's true.

THERRY: You still pay a price, but it's a different price.

CORA: I noticed when I had the shirt on that it felt like stuff got softer, so I guess means less, and when I took it off, I only wore it for ten minutes, I took it off, and after a couple of hours it got stronger, so I guess that's how it works. That probably was how it worked when I just didn't notice it all this time.


CORA: Now, for a more practical question. Which colors can I dye things if I was going to dye things from purple -- no, I mean like, how it would work, what would I have to put on the purple to get it different colors?

THERRY: I don't know. Choose -- trial and error.

CORA: Well, trial and error will ruin everything.

THERRY: Not necessarily.

CORA: Well, you said I can't make it lighter.

THERRY: No, you can't; it'll have to be darker. It depends what shade of purple you start out with. Obviously if you've got a light lavender, then you've got a whole lot more leeway then if you have dark purple.

CORA: See, I talked to one person that said that it wouldn't work at all; well, she was wrong, `cause she said that the purple would eat up, would absorb the dye, and it would just be darker purple except for black --

THERRY: That's not true.

CORA: No, that wasn't true.

THERRY: Not true at all.

CORA: I didn't believe her, so I went to another store, the eternal skeptic, and found fabric dyes, and they just said that it will mix -- see why I'm asking this is because the sign said that it will mix just like a paint with the color that you start with plus the dye will equal the new color.


CORA: And, so that's why I picked red, and ended up getting maroon; I wasn't really sure that I'd get maroon, but I did.

THERRY: You can add red and yellow.

CORA: Red and yellow?


CORA: To purple?


CORA: And get what?

THERRY: I'm not sure. Depends on the tint that's already there. You can add red, you can add blue, turn it into navy blue.

CORA: Blue turned light lavender into purple.


CORA: Blue turned lavender into purple.


CORA: Okay.

THERRY: But you start with a dark purple and blue, and you'll get navy blue. Light lavender, you can add a lot of red and a little bit of yellow, and you'll get ah pinks, and, ah, light red, rose.

CORA: Hmmm. Could you get rose with a dark purple?


CORA: With a dark purple then, what are my options for color?

THERRY: With dark purple, black and navy blue.

CORA: That's it?

THERRY: And maybe Grey, but it's unlikely that you'll get Grey.

CORA: Now if I take the color out, they've got these packets where you can take the color out, but it only works on some stuff, and I haven't tried that yet. Umm, if you use that, I guess then you have more leeway, right?


CORA: Can you use those kinds of things on little parts of things?


CORA: Yea? I guess you just paint them on, just like you paint -- `cause I was going to paint on Clorox, but I figured that would ruin the cotton.

THERRY: Yea, it would, it would ruin it.

CORA: Well, I guess maybe I'll ask you this and just like write down these combinations, and that way I can experiment em before I transcribe the tape. My other problem is I definitely am color blind when it comes to shades; I had the hardest time figuring out what was a color; and I realized it wasn't only purple that I had this problem with. But I just can't tell shades apart real well. I mean when it doesn't matter, then it's not a problem, but, well, it was an interesting thing to learn. The other thing I wanted to ask you was, my friend Cindy called, so I just wanted to check my advice. She called me with this problem. She has two girlfriends; one on each continent, and one is in Italy, the other is in Columbia. She's in Columbia; she works in international work, right? They both want to be with her, and they both want a decision because each of them knows about the other. And she's totally tormenting herself over the whole thing. The Colombian knows English, and she's been seeing her for two years, it's her first relationship with a woman; she essentially brought her out. And she's more or less personality wise, very jealous and unstable. Real stereotypically --

THERRY: Colombian.

CORA: Latino personality, yea. The other one is older, has been gay for a long time, is Italian, but is not Bi-lingual, and came over to the United States a couple of months ago, I guess to check out living here, and didn't really like it very much. Cindy prefers coming back to the United States. She worked in Italy and was very happy with this woman and was very happy with her job, and tolerated Italy pretty well, but see, she's coming to the ending of her consultant contract. She just got the Colombian a visa for five years to come to the states, `cause the Colombian wanted to do that, but she can't work if she comes here. Cindy is torn between these two women and where she wants to live. The advice I gave her was, um, I tried to speak from my chain, you know, and think of everything you ever taught me about relationships, but I told her that for one, it sounded like she wanted a guarantee, which I think she does, `cause she really wants a relationship, and she's really trying to pick the one that would be the best, and my hunch is that the Italian would probably be the best because --

THERRY: By far.

CORA: Yea, because of her age and her stability and everything.

THERRY: Yea, by far.

CORA: Yea?

THERRY: The relationship wouldn't be nowhere near as bumpy.

CORA: You think it would last? She had an eight year relationship before with a woman and it ended because the other woman wanted to get married to a man, which she did in her country. The thing is that the Italian really doesn't want to live in America, and Cindy's not sure she wants to live in Italy. So, I told her to make a list of pros and cons and consider the tradeoffs she'd have to make for each pro and each con, um, with both woman, and also consider where she'd want to live; what culture she thought she'd be happiest in, which she thinks is the United States. She's torn because the Colombian speaks English and she thinks would adapt better to the states. Um, you don't think so?

THERRY: It's not going to change her volatileness.

CORA: I told her that if she's this jealous now, and Cindy claims that it's just over this one woman `cause she knows that she was her ex-lover, but I told her that I wasn't sure that that was true because of my sister-in-law, and I told her a little of it about how she acts generally, and that that seemed like a very similar pattern. Um, but I told her that you had to pick the person that wore as many hats for you to satisfy as many needs as possible because that's how you were going to be happiest, and also that you had to pick the person that was going to contribute most to a mature 'we' relationship where they were willing to give up some of their individuality for the couple, and also their personality had to be appropriate to yours, kind of matching it in a way that you guys got along good, and also that your roles were complimentary in a relationship. I didn't go into the male and female, I didn't want to freak her out, but I did give two examples where the roles are pretty much divided up, and she knew the couples, um, and so that's essentially what I told her, and that was right? And was there anything else I could have said?

THERRY: Oh yeah, a lot more.

CORA: Like what? Well, um, was that a complete answer for that type of question?

THERRY: It's good enough. You have to consider that regardless of what it comes down to is the trade-offs that her own personality demands.

CORA: Um-hum. Yea, I told her essentially no one knows how she feels, and she's going to have to make the final decision. And she's also worried because she has like I think a year and a half left in Columbia, and if she goes to Columbia having picked the Italian the Colombian's not going to see her any more. And uh, but she also said if that was the case she would leave there earlier, but then she wouldn't be making the same amount of money, and I said, well, you know, I guess that's your trade-off; you know, these are all things you have to consider, you know, where you want to live is definitely one of them, but the Colombian wants to be a wife to her, like she said if Cindy travels anymore, that she wants to come with her, and um, to any place she goes, and Cindy said she wasn't sure she could do that, but she was thinking of getting out of consulting anyway because

it was totally interfering with her personal life, I mean because she's done this for years, and usually she just leaves women behind and goes on to the next country and the next person, but, you know, she's getting older and she's getting tired of doing that. So, at least, I guess, that was accurate, it was accurate information. Okay, did I also tell you that a hospice in Scotsboro called me?


CORA: Um, they heard about me from my old boss that liked me, the one that resigned from hospice of Huntsville, and they have a part time position open for twenty hours a week at eight something an hour for hospice for part-time nurse, and they wanted to interview me, and so I said, you know, that I was very interested, and she sent me an application; I hope I wasn't too forward because I asked her, you know, she said she wanted to interview me, and I said I was available for that week but I didn't want to sound desperate. I'm afraid maybe I did; I don't know. But, um, you know, she looked at her schedule and called me back a couple days later and said it wouldn't work, `cause she was going on vacation, so she said if she couldn't interview me that week, it would have to be after she came back. So she's coming back on Thursday. Um, so, that happened, so that was nice. I hope I get the job, it would be nice; and I'd still work at Upjohn whenever, but I've been calling Upjohn, and they haven't been giving me any work, except for the weekend, and I had to cancel on the weekend this weekend, and that didn't thrill them, I'm sure, but I didn't loose the job, `cause I had food poisoning, or -- I either had food poisoning or I got bit by something, I don't know, but I got pretty sick on Saturday night, and Sunday with stomach stuff, and uh, I had a bite with a little rash around it on my neck, so that's why I thought maybe I got a spider bite.


CORA: Could that do it?

THERRY: Sounds like it; sure it could.

CORA: Huh, that's odd, because I, you know, I'm allergic to ants so I was real careful, I was at a picnic but I had high-top shoes on, and I was sitting on a blanket when I sat in the grass, and I went swimming, and then I went back into the house and changed, so I really wasn't out anywhere, but I did lay down on a blanket which had been bought at the auction by my friend, but it was on cement right by the pool, but that might have had a bug in it or something. Because I ate dinner at seven, and at ten o'clock I just got horrible stomach cramps, and then I had diarriah, and started throwing up, and there wasn't much in me to throw up, but it was just the stomach thing, it lasted until about three o'clock the next day.

But it didn't keep me up; when I went to sleep, I went to sleep, and that was it, but then when I got up again, they started again, and I haven't really been hungry since then, I haven't eaten very much. So, that's interesting to know, I didn't know that could happen from a spider bite. Hadn't even worn purple. (laughter)

THERRY: But you wore it before.

CORA: No, I wore it after.


CORA: I hadn't worn it at all since I talked to you.

THERRY: Maybe it was pre-punishment. (laughter)

CORA: Yea, maybe it was