Arkashean Q&A Session -- 061

THERRY: It never even enters their mind at all that it's sexually based. To them it's just love. It's just a little boy going, or generating towards his daddy because of security factors, and all of this other jazz. So that love is acknowledged between them and it is channeled such that that love becomes imitation and that becomes the seat of all learning. That's how the young boy becomes a man, taking on his father's values, his father's ways, his father's method of dealing with stress, and that's the biggy right there. Or along the same line, he takes on his father's lack of dealing with stress. If the father deals stress with alcohol, so will the child. If the father deals stress by running to the medicine cabinet and getting an aspirin, well then, so will the child. Except the child might not use aspirin; may use another drug. But see, all of these messages are so subtle, and they're based on that--

JESSA: But you also get patterns from the opposite sex parent too, don't you?

THERRY: No, not in this particular set of circumstances. The message that you get from the other belong to either the Oedipus or the Electra complex.

JESSA: But what about boys that remind you of their mothers instead of their fathers?

THERRY: Well that doesn't change the fact that--

JESSA: It's just a different thread of the fabric?

THERRY: Yea, just a different thread. Usually the boys who imitate their mothers instead of their fathers, usually it's because that subtle underflow between them and their fathers didn't exist.

JESSA: And what about people that are gay? How does that work for them?

THERRY: Well, usually --

JESSA: Or bisexual.

THERRY: Usually-again, now when you're talking about the gay question, there's a whole lot that's involved here. There's about twenty-six or twenty-seven different threads of the fabric. One of the threads is the fact that this underlying thing between the son and the father did not exist. That's one of biggys.

JESSA: Or the girl and the mother?

THERRY: Right.

JESSA: Would it work the same way?

THERRY: Yea. So they take on the --see the thing that is not realized is when they take on the values, when imitation comes in, then it's not simply surface awareness that gets imitated, it's inner feelings. Inner values. I don't think people realize this. And when the inner values are taken care of, the inner feelings, the inner longings, the inner desires, things that are not spoken; but you get from inference, you get from patterns, you get from the way you handle yourself, your body movements and how they react to somebody --all of those things--that is also absorbed, because that forms the very basis of the solidification of the I.D. system, and most people do not realize this, that this subdued thing is very, very important. It's far more important to the I.D. system than the Oedipal and the Electra complex, far more.

JESSA: Was that absent between me and my mother?

THERRY: Yea. Instead it went between you and your dad, `cause your mother wasn't there. She was running off somewhere all the time.

JESSA: And that's what caused the bisexual part of my nature to be so strong?

THERRY: Well, let's say that has its seed there.

JESSA: Yea, `cause I remember --

THERRY: Again, you got to remember there are a lot of threads involved, and thus far we only talked about one. So you can't say, Ha, that's the cause. It's just not true; there are other things that are involved.

JESSA: But I do remember being attracted to other women, and crushes on teachers, female teachers, and I was really little.

THERRY: Yea, but you have to understand that there's a little bit of that naturally--

JESSA: With everybody.

THERRY:--with everybody. That's that underlying thing that I was talking about.

JESSA: Even on the same-sex teachers and stuff?


JESSA: `Cause of imitation?

THERRY: Yea. Well it's --well, not really, because the crush that you have, you specifically, not everybody else, the crush that you had was sexually based. That was because of that underlying thing.

JESSA: Not being there with my mother, but being there--

THERRY: No, no, no, let's not talk about the presence or the absence of it, let's simply say we're talking about that particular subject, that underlying--there isn't really a name for it. And I really don't want to give it the name of innate homosexuality, because that's not accurate. Although it would appear that it would be, but it really isn't.

JESSA: But you said that it wasn't present with me and my mom; it was present with me and my Dad.

THERRY: Yea. `Cause the same way as the Oedipal and the Electra complex crosses, so can this. And when it crosses, then that's the beginning of cross-communication, and you know where language gets its power.

JESSA: How would, how would that affect--

THERRY: Because normally, in a normal state, the normal thing is that the son will have sexual overtones to his Dad, and the mother, or rather, the daughter will have sexual overtones with her mother. That's the underlying theme right there. Now, quite often that will cross. The sexual overtones will be with the father. Now that sounds an awful lot like it really is Electra complex, but it isn't; it's a separate thing. In the normal growth, the Electra complex is the daughter wants the father. So that's the natural phenomenon, and that gets resolved as it grows up. But when both the underlying and the natural are both in that way, then you're going to have either homosexuality or bisexuality, depending on the other factors. The same thing applies with the male child. If both the Oedipal complex and the underlying whatever it is, both head towards the mother, then again, you're going to have either homosexuality or bisexuality, depending on the other thing.


THERRY: Very, very very few people know this, very few, because this is one of the aspects of psychology that the people ain't so brilliant about yet.

JESSA: And the imitation that would go on with the same-sex parent --

THERRY: See, the--

JESSA:--would go on with the opposite-sex parent if this--

THERRY: Well, see, the Electra complex and the Oedipal complex gets resolved, but this underlying thing never does.

JESSA: Never?

THERRY: No, `cause it's turned into imitation, and it becomes the seed of your I.D.

JESSA: So, if you have this underlying thing going to the opposite sex parent, like me going towards my Dad, does that mean the same--

THERRY: You end up--the potential for you ending up the way you are is very great because look how masculine you are in your things.

JESSA: But does that also mean that the imitation factors and the seed of my I.D. is more towards my Dad instead of my Mom?

THERRY: Alright, let's see if you can answer that yourself.

JESSA: It seems like it is. Seems like yes.

THERRY: Exactly.

JESSA: I mean, it wasn't until you showed me things about women very recently that I even identified myself as a woman at all inside my own head.

THERRY: Right. See, very very few people realize that this underlying thing is so very very very subtle that they don't even believe it exists. But yet it is the core of the I.D. formation. Most people think that much of the problem comes from unresolved Oedipal/Electra complex, and that's nothing but garbage. The Oedipal and Electra complex, when compared with this underlying is nothing more than a red herring.


THERRY: But again, as I said, there are twenty-six threads, at least. So you can't point to it and say, Ahah! that's the cause.

JESSA: So how does that relate to relationships between mothers and daughters when they get older. I've got a lot of friends who get along much better with their sons than their daughters, and in my family that seems to be true. Even my extended family.

THERRY: You'll have to re-ask your question to be more direct; because that question was so nebulous that I really don't know how to answer it.

JESSA: Okay, how does that --my initial question was is--do mothers and daughters usually not get along as a pattern?

THERRY: Um, there's a potential for that depending on the relationship that grows up. Depending on how they can resolve both the Electra complex, the Oedipal complex, and the underlying complex, that will determine if they get along or if they don't. Now, also, don't confuse the natural autonomy aspects of growth with getting along or not getting along with your folks, `cause they're different. Quite often it will appear that the child does not get along with the mother, but that's probably because they're simply going through autonomy.

JESSA: Well how about father and son, is it the same thing?

THERRY: Same thing, same pattern. Also, a great deal that you have to take into consideration is the presence or the absence of machismo in both parents.

JESSA: There can be a presence of it in a female parent? A machismo?

THERRY: Would you say you're machismo?


THERRY: You wouldn't? What would you call your masculinity?

JESSA: Oh, okay. I guess I'd call it anima and animus.

THERRY: You'd call it what?

JESSA: Anima and animus based on Jung who says it's just a masculine and a feminine in everybody.

THERRY: So is it not a fact that the only thing you did right now is change a label that suited you more?

JESSA: Well no because machismo has a different definition. Machismo means extra macho. It means a thousand percent excessive ego of a male.

THERRY: Not in my definition.

JESSA: No? That's the common definition. If you're macho, that's what you are; you're excessively male. You know, the marching around.

THERRY: That's not true, because there are many men who have tremendous macho, but they're also gentle, they're kind; they're loving, they're caring.

JESSA: Well, the general usage of macho is different than that.

THERRY: Okay, I can accept that. Alright, then for this definition, let's use the word not macho simply means the male ego.

JESSA: Okay.

THERRY: And in this particular conversation it's present in both the female and the male, and it has a lot to do with--meaning of course that when you're using it with the female, you're not necessarily saying the male ego in the female, but you're also saying the female ego in the female. Likewise, when you apply it to the male, it's the male ego in the male, plus the female ego in the male. It's all the excessive parts.

JESSA: I can see that. So that also depends on how they're going to get along with their same sex children?

THERRY: As well as the opposite sex child.

JESSA: Now the male aspect of the female ego in the female determines--

THERRY: One more thing is the degree of peace there is between the two parents. Because children love to play one against the other.

JESSA: But the male part and the female ego is what determines how the female gets along with both male and female children?

THERRY: In terms of the underlying aspect, yea. If their own underlying aspect is resolved, then there's really no great problem because the parent will resolve or will attempt to resolve it by channeling it correctly if everything else is okay. But if the parents underlying is not resolved, such as your mother's, for instance, then there's no way yours can be resolved either.

JESSA: The underlying what? You mean that underlying incurring that you're talking about, with her's running to her mother's?


JESSA: You're saying that her's isn't resolved?


JESSA: How come if hers isn't resolved, mine can't be resolved?

THERRY: `Cause she can't have a true wholesome relationship with a woman.

JESSA: Then mine isn't even there with her; mine's with my Dad.

THERRY: Right.

JESSA: So what's that mean in terms of my relationship with women?

THERRY: Well, you already know what that is.

JESSA: Yea, mine seems to be more there in every area.

THERRY: Sure, you play the man's part with the women.

JESSA: I seem to genuinely like women.

THERRY: Yea, of course; men usually do.

JESSA: Which brings me to something else that happened in Miami, which is kind of weird. I mean, I told you a little bit about being aware of a sexual kind of thing between me and my Dad. Well, that was a lot more pronounced, at least on my part this time. Which is really strange.

THERRY: Well, that may be a good thing. I really that most of society would be shocked at that, but this may be a very good thing. It's a sign of what could be happening. Like I say, what `could'be happening is that the things that you should have felt when you were extremely young you're probably beginning to feel them now which means you have one hell of a retarded I.D. But it would fit the pattern as to what you are. In which case, what will happen is, like any child, that will be resolved. And as that is resolved, then your female nature will begin growing, and your desire for men will grow, or become more healthy, to use a stupid terms.

JESSA: Wouldn't that cause me more problems?

THERRY: Oh hell yea, because you'll be sitting on the fence and be vacillating back and forth for quite some time. You'll be fighting with the desire that you've had all of your life, but there a healthier situation in that, as each become equal, you'll be freed from both. As one grows, however, they're going to keep tugging and pulling. But once they're both truly equal, then you'll be freed because you won't care which one; you'll be a true Bi.

JESSA: When you were talking about the pool a couple of weeks ago, were you referring about a gay pool or a bisexual pool?

THERRY: Neither.

JESSA: Neither?

THERRY: I was talking patterns.

JESSA: Alright but you said something about me spinning a bane or something about-that was bisexual-about --

THERRY: I was talking patterns, Mel. I always talk patterns. The only thing that I was telling you is that in anything you do you create a pool of pain. Any time that you do things that you know are wrong or that you are caught in a game that draws you towards Earth, that creates a pool of pain, and in order to grow you have to pass through that pool of pain in order to get out of it. That pool of pain is in fact the accumulation of all your training, the sorrows that goes into it, the whole bit. Fighting your body habits, your mental habits, doors, the unrequited love, all of that garbage; that's all part of the pool of pain.

JESSA: Then I took it too literally when we first discussed it.

THERRY: That's because you keep forgetting when you come here the only thing we want to talk about is patterns; we're not interested in specifics. We only use specifics for role-playing.

JESSA: Well you mentioned a specific one with me in relationships, and that I wouldn't be able--I'd want something, and I'd get it, and I wouldn't be happy with it--

THERRY: If you remember, the only reason why I mentioned a specific is because you asked me what was in that pool of pain.

JESSA: Yea, I remember that I asked.

THERRY: Well, if you weren't prepared for the answer, don't ask.

JESSA: No, I'm just trying to under --make sure that I had it accurate, and so was that Bi-sexual, or gay because I thought--

THERRY: Well, whatever it was that I answered. The point is my reply was to what was in that pool of pain. For you it happened to have been that. But that wasn't the only thing; there's other things. Part of what's in the pool of pain is your physical training. If you trained your body to require certain types of manipulation or whatever, that's part of the pool of pain that you have to overcome. To the very young child, quite often the pool of pain for them is the requiring of excessive physical care. When they don't get it, they go in a tirade. And in order for them to be autonomous, they have to go through that and learn that the mother or the father can't be there all the time. Pulls the pain of--you know, it's relative to the individual and their situation and their history, and of course, their Karma.

JESSA: Well that's interesting. `Cause the other thing I felt along with this attraction for my father was kind of a disgust for my mother.

THERRY: That's because of the underlying thing. Because, as children grow--again, I'll use the word normal. It's so offhatted. As normal children grow, once their things are resolved, they have a very huge attraction for the opposite sex, and a repulsion to their own sex. That's just what you're feeling, except, because of the cross, that's the way it is.

JESSA: But the thing is, I don't feel that with women in general, just my mother in particular.

THERRY: That's because you're dealing with just those areas. The combination of the underlying thing and the Electra complex.

JESSA: Oh, I see.

THERRY: You haven't grown sufficient to the point where you can use that for generalization. But in time it will.

JESSA: What, use the Electra complex for generalization?

THERRY: No, the underlying thing.


THERRY: See, you're dealing with the seeming inconsistencies between this underlying thing and the Electra/Oedipal complex. See, most people say it's just one, but it really isn't; it is both the Electra and the Oedipal both together. That's what makes it so difficult.

JESSA: Well, when you say generalize, what do you mean? That I generalize the thing I feel towards other women towards my mother and she won't discuss me because the Electra complex will be resolved?

THERRY: No, because see, right now you're dealing with the sexuality aspects and you're at a point where you're --let's go on a small aside for a moment, okay? If we want to talk about getting to know all of the planet Earth, do we talk about all of the planet Earth, or do we talk about just one little subject, say, like science?

JESSA: One little subject at a time.

THERRY: Okay, so that means it's possible to cut that even further and say we'll talk rocks rather than science, and keep cutting and keep cutting until you're dealing with just one little subject. But that doesn't mean that all the other things stop; it still goes on. Let's take that approach in this particular subject, okay? Right now you're dealing with the underlying factors as it is interacting with the combination Oedipal/Electra complexes with your mom and your Dad. Okay? But because her underlying is unresolved, you could not go to her to resolve yours, so you went to your Dad's; therefore you took on the internal values of your Dad. And for you, the only way you can really fuck is to fuck a woman because that's all he does. So, now--

JESSA: That's true, you know? It feels more normal when I'm in bed with a woman.

THERRY: Yea, because you know, that's these underlying things. Now then, what's happening is the other side of the coin is saying, hey, wait a minute, I want to have some fun too; I want to grow too. So as you flip in your mind, as the other side takes over, so to speak--again, don't confuse this with multiple personalities or schizophrenia, or all this other bullshit; it's got nothing to do with it, okay? It's another part of you; it's another aspect of growth that was retarded at youth and is beginning to catch up. So as it is in control of the feelings and stuff, then it is not going to copy what is already there. So, it's going to try to insist on going towards your Mom rather than your Dad. So then the normal thing there is well, obviously the only way to fuck is to fuck a man, and you never fuck a woman. So from that point of view, your mother will be repulsed even though she's a woman, and the normal way to fuck, of course, is with a man, and hence, once it raises above that point, now you are officially into the Electra/Oedipal complex. But it has its seed, its power in the underlying.

JESSA: You mean, once it raises above finding her disgusting?

THERRY: No, there is no cut off that you can put it, because it's like a fabric. It has its seed in the underlying aspect that's growing.

JESSA: But I thought you said the underlying aspect was always already there and already toward my Dad.

THERRY: There are always two sides to it.

JESSA: Oh. So, I thought the underlying one went to the same sex, and then the Oedipus/Electra went to both of them.

THERRY: Yea, but there's still both of them always present. The trouble comes when both of them are separate and are different.

JESSA: Like mine.

THERRY: Yea. `Cause in the average person who--again I hate to use the word `normal'--but, in the normal development, both unite at an early age, and both go the same way.

JESSA: Both underlying currents.

THERRY: Yea, right. That's because the image that the child sees, the information that he gains as he grows up, the roles between the two parents are proper, so to speak. Hence, both of them get the same set of messages, and they both unite, become one, and go towards whatever it's supposed to be. Then, at that point, it gets turned into imitation, and then the I.D. begins to grow. And then it begins its battle; the I.D. begins the battle with Oedipal/Electra complexes, and then finally solidifies. In many instances, and you're one of them, that early stage didn't exist. What happened is there was a split because you got conflicting messages starting in your cradle, and possibly even before, you got conflicting messages. So that the underlying aspects never united. Each took on the different messages, and they each went their own way. In such a case, one always becomes the majority, and the other one always becomes retarded or recessive.

JESSA: The majority for me became the one that did to my Dad.

THERRY: Right. And as a result, that became one of the threads that brought you into homosexuality. But you can't say that it is THE thread, because, as I said, it is a fabric; there's more than one thing involved. That was the seed of it.

JESSA: So you once said that it was mainly my Dad because of some of the things he did as far as behavior-wise and role modeling, but that's not really true, because with my Mother's absence, the seed that could have gone either way went to him--

THERRY: Well, now you're getting into other threads.

JESSA: Oh, okay.

THERRY: Because you have to bear in mind that both parties behaved, and therefore you got messages that are nonverbal from both parties. Over and above the underlying aspects, now you begin talking about other threads that are involved.

JESSA: Well, staying back on the underlying thread, what about people from single parent homes? What if you have a child and there's only the mother around, and the child's a boy?

THERRY: Well, the mother is still capable of giving the proper code signals for both of them. If she herself is proper in her coding, then, to a daughter, she will give her daughter an underlying thing that is designed for taking care of it in that she will accept the love and direct it towards imitation, and therefore the child will the get the imitation of the inner feelings that men are certain things and women are certain things etc. etc., and normalcy comes around. Also in the same set of circumstances, if it is a boy child, the mother will again satisfy the underlying thing such that it is not imitation that occurs but transformation. The child will grow up somewhat nebulous up until a certain age, but because the mother is all together, let's say, she's capable of preventing the imitation thing.

JESSA: Could he take on other role models of men at some later date?

THERRY: Right. If you notice, when things are right, a young child who is with a mother only, will latch on very very tightly and very hard to a male that they grow to like. And it is from them that the imitation becomes.

JESSA: Now what about if it is a father only?

THERRY: Same thing, just in reverse.

JESSA: So they can do the same thing?


JESSA: Now, are there always two of those underlying threads, and is one of them always stronger?

THERRY: In the beginning there's always two, one for a male and one for a female. And depending on the message, they either unite and become one and turn into imitation, or they cross and homosexuality and who knows what else develops.

JESSA: And I know there are other threads, but is that always--as a pattern, is that always a seed for either Homo- or bisexuality? As a crossing?

THERRY: Or heterosexuality.

JESSA: No, the crossing.

THERRY: Oh, the crossing.

JESSA: Like even in transsexuals and homosexuals and Bi-


JESSA:--and all that continuum, the seed is the crossing of that underlying thread?

THERRY: Yes. But you also have to bear in mind that there is a small period in a man and a woman's growth where they go through experimentation. Even though that does relate back to the underlying, it's also a natural process of I.D. formation. Because here they prove themselves and their relative machismo begins there. Their machismo that's in their I.D. system.

JESSA: So when you say experimenting, you mean with homosexuality?

THERRY: No, not necessarily. See, at that stage, it can't even be considered homosexuality. It's simply wanting to know if there are others like you, and what are the differences, etc. Boys will get together, and they will play around, masturbate. They'll show one another, see how big I am, see how small I am, or whatever. Women will sometimes come around and see how their breasts are developing, see how their shape is developing, and how they feel when you touch certain things, or what does it feel like if I touch you or if you touch me. All of these things, you know. During this stage, you can't really truly call that homosexuality. It doesn't become homosexuality until it rises to the sexual level.

JESSA: Well, and that's another thing. When you say rises to the sexual level, you mean, whether they've been to bed with someone once, whether they've had a year affair with them? I mean, what's the differentiation between experimentation versus being bisexual versus--

THERRY: Well, okay, there are differences between--there are stages of growth, okay? Some of the stages of growth also contain phase where they temporarily take on a role. In some children it is possible that temporarily they take on a homosexual phase where they actually go to bed with one another. But, because it is a phase, they usually grow out of it, and that's the last--you know, it's just part of their growth formation.

JESSA: Like Wayne used to do with his friends?

THERRY: Whatever. But, if it is too strongly linked to the underlying, then that phase changes into the chosen lifestyle, and that's what happened to you. `Cause for a long time the child will try to outgrow that phase, but they find that they can't. They find that it doesn't matter what they do they can't get that phase out of the way. And over an extended period of time, depending on how much pain they're determined to experience, eventually they'll take that as their lifestyle. The strange part about it is is that phase can come into you know, various I.D. phases can come in at various ages.

JESSA: That's what I was wondering about because, I mean, I know people, they're older that are married that have kids and stuff, that all of a sudden start doing that. They start coming out.

THERRY: Yea. The only reason for that, as I said before, the other side of them is now beginning to catch up.

JESSA: I don't understand. That means if a person's been normally heterosexual--

THERRY: That doesn't mean that their entire makeup was what you'd call normal. It could also mean that they too have a subdued side that they never showed to the world. That doesn't mean that they themselves haven't been fighting with it. `Cause let's face it. It's a fact that you're not normal all of your life and then suddenly begin liking men or liking women.

JESSA: That's true.

THERRY: It just doesn't happen that way. Therefore, when these things occur, you can pretty well be certain that subjectively, and pretty quietly, they've been dealing with that for a long time. And they've been experiencing feelings for a long long time, and it's just that now they've decided that, well, I'll try it.

JESSA: But some of that experimentation, even if it's on a sexual level, it's just a phase?

THERRY: It could be, yea. It could be that they could be having under a certain amount of tension, and they could internally say, well, fuck it, let's do it and let's get it out, get away with it, get rid of it, throw it away. So they go through the phase. And having gone through the phase, then they evaluate it. Is this better than usual? If they decide, yea, it's a hell of a lot better, then that becomes the new way of life. And if it is not, if it doesn't serve as many rewards, or whatever, then they'll throw it away, or they'll put it in the background.

JESSA: If they put it in the background, then they're bisexual?


JESSA: So there's no way --

THERRY: Wait a minute; I've got to get something to eat. Be right back. Better shut this off.

JESSA: Okay.---I was just going to ask, there's no way really of telling where they're at as far as when they're sexually playing around, or coming out, or not coming out, is there? Or isn't there?

THERRY: You mean is there a way --are you asking me if there's a way that a person can tell for themselves?


THERRY: No. Because they haven't been trained enough to get themselves out of their own way.

JESSA: Because, like, as far as bringing people out, which I know I'm not--don't want to do, and I was thinking of a friend of mine that Wayne said I should stay away from, and yet, according to everything that I've known by her, she's bisexual. I mean, she's been doing it. She may be confused and she may think men are easier, but um, I decided not to pursue it for other reasons, but as far as evaluating whether she was out or not, she's been in the so-called lifestyle for a couple of years already.

THERRY: Now you're dealing with Maat. How much of that is because of what you want, and how much of it is because of reality?

JESSA: No, I'm talking about reality. She's been to bed with--

THERRY: Maat deals with reality.

JESSA: Well, she's been out with --that's why I wanted to know what your definition was. She's been out with various women when she was younger; she's been out with one woman various times when she was older; she also goes out with men. She seems to prefer men. She's done the bars and the parties and the this and the that and divorced her husband and all sorts of--I mean, she's taken some steps that, you know, most people wouldn't take if they were experimenting, it seems like.

THERRY: That's not true.

JESSA: That's not true?

THERRY: No, that's not true.

JESSA: Well, that's what I was wondering.

THERRY: During the experimental phase, you can be so confused that you can make such disastrous decisions that they could ruin your whole life.

JESSA: Hum. I didn't think they could really--then I was wrong because I didn't think someone would divorce somebody and do all that other stuff--

THERRY: During that phase, oh yes. They could do things that they could be so sorry for later, when they're over the phase, that they could even commit suicide because of it. Remember, you're dealing with a fabric that is consisting of continuums.

JESSA: Well, I was just wondering how you told with people that were bisexual because she's had numerous affairs in the past, then she went for a long time without having any affairs with women, then she started back having affairs with one woman. And now she's with men. I mean, yea, she seems to prefer men. But there are a lot of bisexuals who do. Is it bringing them out to go to bed with them if they prefer men?

THERRY: Well, see, now you're asking for a blanket statement, and there's no way I can give you a blanket statement. The only thing that I can tell you is look at them over time. If over a long period of time, they consistently go back and forth, then it's relatively safe to assume it is their nature. But, if you're looking at this over a relatively short period of time, you don't know; they may be in a phase.

JESSA: Yes, I guess unless you can look--I mean, I used to just say, well, if they haven't done it, then you don't do it, but if they've done it once or twice, then it's okay. And then you told me that that's not true.

THERRY: No, it's not, because they may be in a phase, and that's a very dangerous side. As you remember, this other lady who was thinking of suicide's, because she did something.

JESSA: Well, it's the same one, but now she says she's comfortable with it and still wants it. Well, that was what she said a while ago; I haven't talked to her since then. I mean, her behavior says she likes men better; she has gotten a boyfriend, but when he's not around I don't know that she won't come around again whether it be to me or some other woman.

THERRY: Yea. So the thing to do, obviously, is to give it more time. Find out if it is phase or if it is becoming her nature. If it becomes her nature to go back and forth, then the only hazard that you have to deal with is the hurt of rejection, and the fear of infection.

JESSA: Yea, that's true. I mean, in some ways bisexuals may be healthier mentally, but physically there's a lot more risk.


JESSA:--these days since they're with men, and maybe with different men. If you do something that you know is wrong, saying that, whatever, you're going to accept the consequences. Say, whether knowingly or unknowingly I brought somebody out, so to speak. I know that you use the term angel--

THERRY: Well, there's a difference between if you do it willingly or of you do it unwillingly.

JESSA: I mean knowingly or unknowingly.

THERRY: Same difference. If you do something knowingly, then there's a different Karma to it than if you do it unknowingly.

JESSA: Okay, if you do it knowingly, and you say something about becoming an angel of darkness, does that mean you serve the dark force for the rest of your life?

THERRY: There's no such thing as anything for the rest of your life.

JESSA: Or does that just mean the Karma for that situation. I mean, I guess I had trouble understanding what you meant by `angel of darkness' when you mentioned that.

THERRY: Okay, let's talk about --let's go on a small aside again.

JESSA: Okay.

THERRY: Talk about the difference between light and darkness. What is light and what is darkness?

JESSA: Well, from my previous understanding, light would mean serving the All, and darkness would mean serving yourself.

THERRY: Okay, let's go into a little bit more of it. Let's look at it from the point of view of Arkasheans.

JESSA: Light would be --