Arkashean Q&A Session -- 082
THERRY: It does not belong to that which is not real. The seeming parody here is the fact that which is real to each individual is created by that which is not real for them. That's why reality is then an interaction and not a phenomenon.
DUNCAN: That which is real?
THERRY: See reality is an interaction, not a phenomenon.
DUNCAN: Yeah, I can understand that. I don't have a problem with that.
THERRY: And the interaction is between that which is real, that which is not real and Recursive Dialusion. So since reality is not a phenomenon, but an interaction, then you can have billions of realities all having its source from one phenomenon.
DUNCAN: Yeah, I can agree with that. But I don't see why the statement that that which is real depends on that which is not real applies. I can see why the statement realities depends on that which is not real.
THERRY: Well, isn't that what the law says?
DUNCAN: Oh, yes. So would it be accurate to say that if the plant kingdom were destroyed, since they would no longer have the MindForce that occupied it, those plants would no longer have freedom to evolve in that light form that that is how this evolvement would effect on the life forms via freedoms?
THERRY: You have to bear in mind that the life forms called plants directly effect the possibility of life's envelope or the LifeForce/MindForce Pairing itself. The envelope wherein the life force can reside. Now, what happens is that as you must remember, life is itself or life forms are themselves a part of the continuum. Now as the life forms that are brought about in the beginning..., what occurs is that their due process of living in fact changes the environment of their host planet. As a result it makes possible a different type of life... a life form that has mobility and as the change continues, greater and greater mobility occurs. Now the beauty of this mobility is that it occurs in more than one vein or more than one level. While each life form gains the mobility to travel through space, they also gain the mobility of the life force itself in that the mechanisms give it more freedoms, the freedom to think, the freedom to interpret or utilize individuality, you make this and as this continues along the continuum, you alternately end up with what man has or the life form called man who has considerable mobility in a number of areas. Well, you have to bear in mind that all throughout this are freedoms. It is the innate freedoms, the walk of freedoms and the walk of Predestiny union, their union is what makes this possible. So that's the way that freedom is hooked into the conversation. But you got to bear in mind that that freedom is an intricate part of karma, which is just really cause and effect. Since the plant kingdom originated without or let's say in a very drastically different atmosphere than the cause and effect aspects, it really changed it dramatically and made it possible for a vehicle who was independent of its host, pseudo independent than its host and that's what gave it mobility. Do you understand that?
DUNCAN: Up until that last thing.
THERRY: Okay, see the plant kingdom is rooted solidly on its host, so there is a very, very direct positive correlation how the host fares and how the parasite fares. I use the word parasite, but its really not a true parasite, because there is a symbiotic relationship there. The passenger if you will, does indeed if you will forgive the word, groom the area where its rooted. Now as the life forms continue changing, they break free. They are no longer rooted, they can now scurry about. And there is still a symbiotic relationship in that they are still cocooned within the environment and the grooming of Earth is done via the pairing, via its living environment and the process of returning to Earth, will be done in terms of its waste products, which in turn become part of the food chain for other life forms, so there is a very big connection Karmically via freedoms. Does that answer your question?
DUNCAN: Not really.
THERRY: See if you can address specifically what your thoughts are.
SKIE: My thoughts are I'm trying to figure out since freedoms are automatically related to updating automatic pilot.
THERRY: Now that doesn't come into it, until you get into the much higher life forms because the beginnings of it are in the lower life forms. We say lower, but who's to say which is lower and which is not. But we... the beginning or lower end of the continuum of life are not capable of updating automatic pilot. They are preprogrammed and as a matter of fact, they are so predestined that you really don't call the programmable instincts. You simply say that they are instincts period. It's not until the life forms begin getting much higher that the updating of automatic pilot comes into it. And there again you're talking about the continuum of freedom, not the presence or absence but the continuum itself. As the life form increases then however rudimentary they begin having the ability to learn and once the ability to learn independent of natural selection comes into it, then the true aspects of updating automatic pilot comes into being. Its obvious that natural selection cannot be called learning in the true sense of the word. It can only be called adaptation, which is really based on interaction between the preservation of life aspect and the life form and its environment. But the process of true learning is because of the MindForce itself, [and because of] a right of choice, so to speak, automatic pilot is updated. I think that there is the seed of free thinking. However, the fact that it is very rudimentary in the lower forms, it's nonetheless the beginning of free thinking and hence it's the, Arkashea if you will, it's the first thought, it's the very first thought, the very first independent self-generated thought. Does that answer your question?
DUNCAN: Well, it takes it one step further, but I'm still not sure of what new definition I should give to the word "freedom" when I'm not applying it to the reaches of man as a whole free thought. Because this came up once before and you told me, "For now, just deal with the fact of freedom as it applies to automatic pilot."
THERRY: Well, you have to understand that when you're talking about the Royal steering current of the life force, the Royal steering current and the aspects of it, and there are three of them, they have their effect in two ways, by having their presence felt and by having their presence... the lack of their presence felt. Now in the lower or in the beginnings of the continuum of life, the continuum of freedom itself is not present and that's where it gives its affect because it is almost purely all Predestiny. There is very little if, any, free will. There is some freewill, of course, because of the life forms right of choice to enter a body or selective body but for all practical purposes, you might as well say that there really isn't any free choice. And, it is not until much later on in the epic of creation where free thinking begins and there freewill is present. You got to bear in mind, in the beginning ninety percent was not freewill at all, it was Predestiny according to law. The interaction between the LifeForce/MindForce Pairing and Recursive Dialusion gave it very , very, very severe limitations... and, these limitations are, in fact, the source of all absolute control. It is not until these controls played their part that allowed the envelope of life to develop, which of course had its effect in life forms who were no longer rooted in one place. Does that answer your question?
DUNCAN: Yeah, again, it takes it one step further, but I still have many questions.
DUNCAN: I don't know if this is too specific, but what I'm doing is trying to understand how if I replace the plant kingdom for X in the paragraph, how each of its proponents is done?Physical support? What do you mean?
THERRY: Yeah... Within the realms of matter.
DUNCAN: All matter, all creation?
THERRY: From the first moment that you inhabit a vehicle of any sort, from that moment on you have an adaptive tool for survival. It's called automatic pilot.
DUNCAN: So automatic pilot is a locked in pattern that you've created?
THERRY: See you can't call it... from that point of view you can't call it a lack of freedom.
THERRY: Because that's not its purpose. Its there as a protective tool. During the "What If/But" syndrome, if you remember, during the scenario, it said that we could create a set of laws that would prevent us from falling out when we are not aware, when we don't guard. Well, that little set of rules that prevents them from falling out of their body is called automatic pilot...
THERRY: That's where self-preservation comes from. You want to be able to continue to exist, you don't want to be forced all out of your body. So all of your survival instincts, they're all automatic pilot.
DUNCAN: Well, how about just at this level, if you don't look at it from that actual level ... if we just look at it from this level, its ninety percent or...?
THERRY: Yes, its ninety percent of this level. That's the reason why its abandon all hope. Because really Karma works against you like crazy. Once a poor sucker gets involved in Karma. Whew... he practically doesn't have a chance. That's the reason why you can't get out alone. You must have somebody to help you... because Karma will always work to keep you into the wraps of Maya.
DUNCAN: Is that why it was created?
DUNCAN: Is that why it was created?
THERRY: Is that why what was created?
THERRY: Yes. So you wouldn't fall out of your body.
DUNCAN: Well what about... how is Karma used in Orthodontiks?
THERRY: What do you mean?
DUNCAN: I thought you said that cause and effect existed in Orthodontiks.
THERRY: Yes, cause and effect as far as law, yes. But that goes back to this other thing that we were talking about where it is possible to have veils of forgetfulness even thought you're Orthodontiks. But its not the same as when you're in matter. See the big difference is that when you're in Orthodontiks, you're not inhabiting a true physical vehicle, and therefore there's nothing for you to fall out of, but you can still wrap yourself with illusions, but you're not inhabiting, so therefore the state is different, the Karma is different, the limitations are different. Whereas once you descend into matter, then you've done more than wrap yourself in an illusion, you have in fact taken residence in a body.
DUNCAN: Alright, now communication.
THERRY: Now that's a big kettle of fish, communication because there are so many levels to it, so many purposes.
DUNCAN: Well, it says here that communication is the single most important scenario in the game called Life. I think I can understand that. But then it says that this is because communication is serial in its nature.
DUNCAN: I don't see why that fact has anything to do with why its the most important scenario in the game called life.
THERRY: Okay, there are two things involved here. First, the absolute, totally most important part of communication is not what you tell others, its what you tell yourself, because that's what's going to determine your thoughts, behaviors, your future thoughts, your past thoughts, the whole ball of wax, right. Secondly, because it is communication every first word will modify or somehow change every word and its relative meaning, and everything that comes after it. The second word will again modify or somehow change the word, the limits or everything in the meanings of everything that comes after it. And so with each succeeding word it becomes the same. A case in point, which is rather humorous, but it still serves as a point.... is... it shows that when you modify or limit your words it changes your meanings..."
"Oh, John, let's not park here." Right?
"Oh, John, lets not park."
"Oh, John let's not."
Can you see that the whole joke of it, or the whole inconsistency or the whole premise of everything comes from it being serial.
DUNCAN: Yes, but it seems that you're going backwards. It seems that the end is limiting what's in front.
THERRY: Or in that case,
"Oh, John, let's,"
"Oh John, lets not,"
"Oh, John lets not park,"
"Oh, John lets not park here."
See, every word that comes limits itself and each every succeeding word because of its effect upon the whole, it changes. Well this change that's occurring is the communication that your telling yourself, which in fact creates your illusions, and therefore your reality and therefore your Karma. Its what's going to determine your omissions and your commissions.
DUNCAN: So what would happen if it wasn't serial?
THERRY: Well, there is a type of communication that is not serial... its called connotative meaning. When you use strictly denotative meanings, then you are communicating serially. But when you are communicating in denotative language then it is no longer serial. Every word in the sentence will have its own meaning which will bring about its own impression. The image, the final message that is received from somebody else could be anything, depending upon whatever definition they choose to apply to all the words.
DUNCAN: Would it still be the most important scenario in the game called life?
THERRY: Yes. Again the reason for it is not of what it tells others, but what it tells yourself.
DUNCAN: So its the most important scenario in the game called life because it determines your illusions and realities and so forth, and it happens to be serial in nature the way most people use it?
THERRY: Right. Well, in its normal creative form it is serial in nature.
DUNCAN: Yeah, okay, but I was just confused because it says this is so because communication is serial in its nature and to me that meant that that was why it was the most important scenario... its only because its serial in its nature.
THERRY: Well, in a way that's true. That... because it is serial in its nature each word that you add to a communique changes its meaning in some way. We went through that through the "Oh, John," scenario. Well, it is that constant change that comes around because of the change of adding or subtracting words... that governs your reality.
THERRY: Not to mention the varied implications that it brings around. Well, if you go through the "Oh, John" scenario, you'll find that the words themselves imply certain things that are never actually said. Those are all communications. And they all govern your thinking patterns. And therefore your behavior and therefore your reality.
DUNCAN: Okay, do you have anything else that you want to add on the subject of communication.
THERRY: I don't know, ask questions. You know I don't volunteer information.
DUNCAN: Well, I don't have anything else that I... obviously I don't understand as far as I understand it, but I didn't have that stuck out.
THERRY: That's fine. Then we'll leave it at that for now.
DUNCAN: In this definition of phenomenon that I wrote, it says that anything that is observed is a phenomenon.
DUNCAN: But there's also a mental phenomenon, isn't there? Or is there a phenomenon only if it has a physical reality?
THERRY: No. Something... the thing that you would call mental phenomenon... no that's not a phenomenon. That's a process.
DUNCAN: Well, here's the problem. In the law that says that the level of observation...
THERRY: ...creates your phenomenon?
DUNCAN: Yeah. Well, I don't see how. If its not... if a bowl drops and two people describe it differently, that means that there are two different phenomenon, right?
DUNCAN: Well, if it's physical reality, and it doesn't have anything to do with their mental, where's the difference?
THERRY: It is their processes that gives different phenomenon.
DUNCAN: Well, I don't get it. I mean if the bowl dropped...
THERRY: It dropped.
DUNCAN: Well, I always thought it was the descriptions that were different, not what actually happened.
THERRY: No, their reality is different. Remember we're getting back to communications again. Their mental processes or the aberrations/apparitions in their mental processes, force them to see different things. More than anything else, its because of their corruption of their language... or the corruption of...
DUNCAN: Cause them to see something different?
THERRY: Yes. Everybody has selective forgetting, selective seeing, selective thinking. Some people will notice things that some people will never even see, and vice versa.
DUNCAN: Well, with that definition I can't get away from the fact that it seems like what we were talking about when say a phenomenon what is actually going on in their mind actually has nothing to do with what happened.
THERRY: Now, let's do the same thing again what we did before. Perhaps the difficulty in understanding comes from the limitations of the limits that you placed on the term phenomenon.
DUNCAN: It's possible.
THERRY: If you are placing the term only as it applies to a physical happening such as the sunset or such as a wind blowing an object, then obviously you're correct.
DUNCAN: I thought we just said that was the only things that are is physical.
THERRY: No, my definition of phenomenon is all things that are observable, all that which is real. All phenomenon belong to that which is real.
DUNCAN: I don't know if this is too specific, but what I'm doing is trying to understand how if I replace the plant kingdom for X in the paragraph, how each of its proponents is done?
THERRY: How it changes? Okay, but they do have their change. In this particular case when you're speaking of the plant kingdom then you are in fact speaking of the very beginning. If you could take all of life itself and bring it down to let's say one hour of time, then the creation or what went into the creation of the plant kingdom, may be the first or may be thought of the prenative care of the life form. Can you understand that analogy?
DUNCAN: Yeah, but I don't see how it applies here.
THERRY: Because in the beginning, there was no envelope of life. Life had to be... life had its beginning in an environment of pure creation, pure Recursive Dialusion. There was no freedom under any circumstances. It was all pure predestined through cause and effect, so that's a pretty harsh environment. So if life is too be creative in any form it had to have a form which was capable of surviving in that environment, so obviously the only form that was capable of being creative in that environment was a form that used the gases of that environment or it was a form that did not really take much of its nourishment from the atmosphere. Most of it came from the soil that it was rooted in. And that of course was why the plant kingdom was born in its ways.
SKIE: Now I'm thoroughly confused.
THERRY: How so?
DUNCAN: First of all, we're talking about... it's seems to me that it's completely divorced from the descent from Orthodontiks now. We're talking about it like the LifeForce/MindForce Pairing.
THERRY: That happens when you try to bring it down into specifics, as opposed to into patterns. Remember, this Lesson Two is supposed to be limited to patterns...
DUNCAN: Well, I can leave it to patterns and I can't understand it that way.
THERRY:... and when you bring it down to specifics then absolutely everything changes according to the scientific laws, if you will, of whatever X is. If you're talking about the step by step creations of life because X in this case becomes the plant kingdom, that is the very beginnings of life itself. It's the room of life, the absolute, very, very, very beginning. You're talking about the time when there wasn't any oxygen in the air... But now you're talking... because you're talking specifics, you're no longer talking patterns, now you got to get into what mankind would call science... natural science. Well, once you start talking about natural science, there's no way that you can begin talking about the original patterns again, they're incompatible.
DUNCAN: Well, let me ask you a question.
SKIE: From my point of view, I'm not sure I understand this, but I can't apply it to anything.
THERRY: Then you might as well give up, hang up, stop.
THERRY: Because if you cannot, or if you refuse to accept patterns as your way of thinking, then there's no way that you will ever learn this stuff.
DUNCAN: Well, I don't think it's a case of me refusing to accept.
THERRY: I think it is because I can see that you are capable of understanding patterns, but in your own stubbornness, you refuse to.
DUNCAN: I never said I wasn't, I just said that I can't apply it to anything specific.
THERRY: That is wrong. I know you can.
DUNCAN: Well, I don't see how I can if I can't apply it to the plant kingdom, if I can't understand that, then why should I...
THERRY: Can you see that you're trying to bring the pattern down to specifics?
THERRY: I've already told you three times that you will never be able to do that. Never.
DUNCAN: Then how can I...
THERRY: Because the very minute that you bring a pattern down to a specific you can no longer use your patterns as patterns anymore. There are too many differences on the specific level. To understand it all, you now have to address all those differences and the concept of what came first. Now, you have to stop thinking patterns now you have to start thinking science. They're incompatible with one another. You might as well talk religion versus science. The two are so at war with one another in the thinking process that there is no compatibility. It's not until someone takes a step backwards and says, they are both full of it, that they can realize that they're both saying the same thing, only they're using two different sets of languages. And, so long as you use two different sets of languages to understand the same thought, you'll never be able to reconcile the differences in anything. Religion sits and says, "God did this, God did that, God did this." Science says, "You're full of it! He did not! Nature did this, nature did that, nature did that." And they're both at war with one another. Each is trying to become the major control of MindForce's free will. Science says how, religion says what, and they're both at war with one another..., And, because they're both at war with one another they both deny the existence of the validity of one another. How the heck can you reconcile something that way? They're incompatible. I mean that should have been obvious when the war broke out between the Christian church, who was the thinking power in the western world at that time, and Darwin. Well, it's obvious that Darwin was explaining how something got done. He was not trying to tell what was done. The Christian Church was saying that life was created, but they don't say how, just that it was. Basically, one implies a process that took place over time, while the other implies that creation did not occur over time. So, Darwin comes around and says how it was done and both are at war with each other. Both don't want to lose that little element of power that they had over the people.
DUNCAN: So what does that have to do with my case?
THERRY: It's the thinking process. You cannot think patterns and at the same time try to think specifics. It won't work because when you think patterns you don't take time or the laws of cause & effect into account during the creation. When you think specifics, not only do you have to consider the effects of time, you also have to consider the cause & effect aspects of who or what came first.
SKIE: So what am I supposed to do? Just forget about it when I want to think specifics? Just throw out all the problems that I know?
THERRY: Learn to adjust.
DUNCAN: Well, that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to see where I'm going wrong.
THERRY: You're going wrong because of your stubbornness. You insist upon changing your level of thinking from pattern to specific in order to understand patterns. You never will be able to. Every time you change your level of thinking from specific to pattern, that X factor that we've been talking about is going to throw you for a loop because the rules become altogether different.
DUNCAN: So in other words, if I want to think about specifics, then don't think about this?
THERRY: Exactly. That's why I keep on telling you that Lesson Two has no place for specifics. Specifics do not belong in Lesson Two under any circumstances, because the many differences that exist in specifics are not compatible with the simplified version of patterns in the thinking process.
DUNCAN: Well, I can accept that, but I don't know, it just grieves me, dealing with, "Well, here I have this beautiful pattern but it doesn't... " if I can't apply it to anything, I just don't see what the purpose of it is.
THERRY: You can't apply it because you've got blinders on your thinking process. You have to learn to be able to jump back and forth from the pattern level to the specific level without loosing your place, your reference points. Thinking patterns will give you the basic how and thinking specifics will fill in what the pattern level leaves out.
DUNCAN: I can accept that.
THERRY: And until you get rid of those blinders and refuse to go any further, then you're stuck in exactly where you're at.
DUNCAN: I can accept that too.
THERRY: So, now that you know that, where do we go from here?
DUNCAN: I don't know?
THERRY: Do we end it?
DUNCAN: I guess so. I can see how anything that affects the plant kingdom is by the process of cause and effect is going to affect the entire life force.
DUNCAN: Now when it comes to freedom, I got a little confused or something and I don't see how something that affects the plant kingdom has anything to do with freedoms and how those freedoms are going to in turn affect the entire life force.
THERRY: Isn't freedom, the concept of freedom a continuum?
THERRY: What does that continuum comprise of?
DUNCAN: The ability to change automatic pilot.
THERRY: Oh, really? I didn't know that was the continuum of freedom. I always thought that on one end of the continuum of freedom you had relative freedom to change things while on the other end of the continuum of freedom, you couldn't change anything at all because you were locked into solid law and Predestiny.
THERRY: So? According to that, it doesn't matter if you have the presence of freedom or if you have the total absence of freedom, you're still talking about freedoms.
THERRY: Is that true?
THERRY: Can you see how that is how it comes into it?
DUNCAN: I'll have to think about it for a while.
THERRY: What's to think about?
DUNCAN: I don't know.
THERRY: If you're talking about the plant kingdom, do they have freedoms?
DUNCAN: I would say no.
THERRY: Does that mean that they no longer belong to the continuum of freedom or does that mean that they're just on one end of that continuum?
DUNCAN: That means that they're off one end of the continuum.
THERRY: Oh! Does that in any form make the connection with what you're talking about?
DUNCAN: Well, not to me, at least not yet.
THERRY: Oh, in other words, you have to be on the side where people have freedom before you can see that it is valid, right?
THERRY: Then I don't understand what you're saying.
DUNCAN: Well, I can accept that.
THERRY: Enlighten me. Try to help me. Look, I can't help you remove a block if all you do is communicate to me emotionally.
DUNCAN: Well, you don't give me a chance to think about it. I already told you I needed a chance to think about it and you said, "Think about what?" I still haven't had my chance to think about it.
THERRY: Alright, then we'll stop it for now to give you a chance to think. Come back when you're ready again. You've got to remember that there's a very, very big chasm between the fact that something was done, as opposed to how it was done. There is a point of the explanation of how it was done when you leave patterns altogether. Does that answer your question?
DUNCAN: No, I'm still thinking about what I'm... why I'm not getting... I guess not.
THERRY: Why don't you put into voice, what it is you're not getting?
DUNCAN: Well, I keep trying to but I'm trying to do it better, because I don't seem to getting it across.
THERRY: Why don't you throw away the emotions that are there and translate and use language rather than emotions.
DUNCAN: Alright. I still don't know how this applies to the question I asked you.
THERRY: What's the question?
DUNCAN: The question is how if I affect the plant kingdom... how that is that going to affect the freedoms of the whole rest of the life force?
THERRY: Does the planet... since that's X for the moment, does X at that point have any freedom? Where is it along the continuum of freedoms?
DUNCAN: It's at one of the ends, the ends with no freedom, whatever you want to call it.
THERRY: Okay, if it begins with the end that has no freedom, where does it alternately end up?
DUNCAN: I guess if nothing happens to it along the way...
THERRY: When you say if..., are you talking specifically the plant kingdom or are you talking about life force, itself?
DUNCAN: I thought we were talking about the plant kingdom.
THERRY: Yeah, but is Aren't we talking about how the plant kingdom evolves to give the life force greater mobility, greater freedoms? Isn't that how it's going to affect the life force itself?
THERRY: So while the specifics of the conversation is the life force, the actual subject of the conversation is how X affects the life force as a whole, right?
THERRY: Therefore, how does it affect it as a whole? If it begins with no freedom, how does it end? Are you a plant rooted in one place and incapable of moving and incapable of thinking?...
THERRY: Then what happened to the affect? That first creation, that plant life, what affect did it have upon the life force?
DUNCAN: It had the effect of sitting in the stage, without freedom
THERRY: How it did this is unimportant... But doesn't that answer your question as how it has to do with Lesson Two? Obviously, we're not interested in how X itself is affected by X since that's not our discussion. It's obvious that plants themselves are evolving towards certain aspects. Plants have their own way of moving about. So even the plants, while they are not independent of the LifeForce/MindForce Pairing in terms of our conversation, are evolving to also gain mobility? There are all kinds of plants on earth. Some even begin eating meat. So obviously they too are evolving, but that's not our discussion. Our discussion is not what's happening with the plant kingdom, our discussion is supposed to be, what effect is the plant kingdom itself having on the life force as a whole.
DUNCAN: Okay. So, in other words, if you affect the plant kingdom you're going to affect the capacity for the life force to create life forms that have freedoms, that have more freedoms?
THERRY: Well, isn't it a fact that if you affect the plant kingdom as it exist on land, you change, in some way, the food chain that exist on land? And, would it not also effect the impetus of life to being in the sea?
DUNCAN: That would make sense.
THERRY: Okay. So in the sea you either end up with just plain plankton, or you end up with a higher form which has mobility such as the shellfish, the protozoan, which then begin living their life in colonies, right?
THERRY: So therefore, regardless of if the process goes on on land or if it goes on in the sea, the process is the same, it's still the process of gaining freedoms. Is that true?
DUNCAN: Well, I was wondering if we were going to affect the whole plant kingdom, the part that's on the sea and the land, not just the part that's on the land.
THERRY: Well, if you affect the whole plant kingdom, then are you not making certain that it goes no longer than the laws of Recursive Dialusion?
DUNCAN: Depending on the affect, yeah.
THERRY: What do you mean, depending on the effect?
DUNCAN: Because you can affect the plant kingdom, but not an extent to where it's going to preclude...
THERRY: Explain to me how?
DUNCAN: Like how if we cut down a tree.
THERRY: That's a tree, that's not the plant kingdom.
DUNCAN: It doesn't have its effect on the plant kingdom, just like if I do something, it has its effects on the life force?
THERRY: All it does is creates a disturbance in the force, it doesn't have an effect on the whole.
DUNCAN: That's not an effect, it's a disturbance?
THERRY: No, you're losing the point...
DUNCAN: Well, then I have a misconception, because yesterday, when we talked about...
THERRY: When you're talking about an entire kingdom, you're talking about an effect wherein the changes a seen in the whole. So if you're talking about cutting down trees to have more than just a disturbance in the life force, then the subject of the discussion is that you got to cut down all trees, not just one tree. So obviously, if you're going to cut down one tree, you're not going to have an effect at all. It's just going to create a disturbance in the life force, but if you go about cutting down all trees, now you're going to create a damned big disturbance. That is going to create a change in the environment that is big enough to have an effect upon the life force.
DUNCAN: I agree with that, but it brings up another [question].
THERRY: What's that? Tell me, what effect would it have if it cut down all trees?
DUNCAN: All over the Universe or just on Earth?
THERRY: We're talking about Earth.
DUNCAN: I would guess that life as we know it would/could die out, at least. Well actually, it probably wouldn't because we'd still have all those algae in the sea. But if we just cut down all the trees, then all the life would probably move into the ocean, then it would probably happen all over again.
THERRY: What do you mean, it would happen all over again? You mean trees would...
DUNCAN: Not sure just yet.
THERRY: How can you, you've already removed trees from the plant kingdom?
DUNCAN: I don't know. I don't know how they got there in the first place. I don't know what the life force had to do with how it made trees. I assume that it had to come from what I would assume had to be nothing to begin with. So I don't see why it couldn't happen again given similar [sets of circumstances].
THERRY: In other words, you're saying that the only difference is time, that if you disturb something in the life force, the life force is only going to recreate it anyway.
DUNCAN: Well, I assume that it would, if the conditions were similar enough, yeah, if that was the means of the situation.
THERRY: Then what you're applying is that you could have no effect upon the life force.
DUNCAN: Why not? Why is that implying that? If I send the illusion back, that's really me, that's not the effect?
THERRY: Yeah. Not in terms of the point of our discussion, no.
THERRY: You're not going to be able to stop it, that's the whole point here. All you're going to do is delay it, you're not going to stop it. You're going to have an effect in the terms that we're talking about... we're talking about stopping it or redirecting it.
DUNCAN: Well, I guess this means that if I cut down all the trees there's no way that they're going to grow big, because they'll never be trees again.
THERRY: On this planet, there's a very good chance that you would in fact begin a glacier period all over again. because obviously you would be reversing the process that the life force took to begin with, wouldn't you? You would be changing the entire atmosphere, you'd be, in fact, turning the place into a dessert.
DUNCAN: So... I don't know remember that
THERRY: What would that do to freedoms?
DUNCAN: Depends on what level we're talking about. Are we talking about freedoms of the life force itself or freedoms of man or freedoms of the fish in the sea?
THERRY: What are we talking about?
DUNCAN: I would say the life force itself.
THERRY: Then answer my question, what does that do to freedom?
DUNCAN: It makes them more limited.
THERRY: Does that not, in fact, return you right back where you started from?... right back into Recursive Dialusion?
DUNCAN: I would say no.
THERRY: How so?
DUNCAN: Because you'd still have the oceans, because you have glaciers, so even if they were much more limited...
THERRY: But you don't have freedoms there.
DUNCAN: You don't have any freedoms right here...
THERRY: They still operate strictly by law.
DUNCAN: Wait a minute. You mean if I cut down all the trees, that will be the end of it, and the only way back to Recursive Dialuge and no freedoms whatsoever? Is that what you're saying?
THERRY: Yeah. Do you know how?
THERRY: Where would the nutrients come from that's in sea?
DUNCAN: Where would the nutrients come from in the sea?
THERRY: If you turn all the land into a dessert, where's the sea going to get its nutrients from?
DUNCAN: I guess whatever planktons or green algae that live in the sea do... we'd get it from the sun. I don't know if they'd be enough fishes or enough nutrients already locked up in the sea for it to continue. Exactly where if I killed all the plants on the land, I don't know. Am I just going to burn them so that all the nutrients go out of the atmosphere?
THERRY: Isn't the sun just going to burn them? There's no more shade anymore.
SKIE: Yeah, but I don't know where I'm going to get them.
THERRY: You'd get a mass run-off.
DUNCAN: Yeah, they'd run off into the sea, right?
THERRY: Which can't continue forever. Nothing can live, absolutely nothing can live outside of the end of life, it's got to have something there to feed it. If you take away the source of food, have you not in fact destroyed the food chain?
DUNCAN: If I take the source, am I destroying the food chain? I'd like to say, "Yes."
THERRY: How does that fit into our discussion? What does that have to do with freedoms?
DUNCAN: If you take them, you wouldn't have them under those circumstances.
THERRY: Does that answer your question of how X equals the plant kingdom? Does that answer your question about freedoms, how freedoms apply to X equals the plant kingdom?
THERRY: Then there's no more problems, right?
DUNCAN: No problems? Only small problems.
THERRY: Alright then, bring them up.
DUNCAN: Well, now I have to wonder if I'm supposed to know all these things like you're saying?
THERRY: You're supposed to stick yourself to Lesson Two. I'm not interested in breeding a superior Einstein. I'm interested in you only learning Lesson Two.
THERRY: Don't worry about Lessons Three, Four and Five.
DUNCAN: But, I thought this was all [related] Lesson Two, the pairings and all that.
THERRY: The pairings, yes, but not science. I mean, you're not going to suddenly become a major brain on Earth.
DUNCAN: Well, I don't know, the way you ask me these questions, I get the impression that you expect me to realize what cutting down all the trees is going to do.
THERRY: I expect you to go ahead and think. I don't expect you to come to me with a lot of uncontrolled emotions.
DUNCAN: Alright, then let's go on the next one. The "now effect."
THERRY: The "now effect?"
THERRY: Okay, explain that.
DUNCAN: In terms of the plant kingdom or in terms of...
THERRY: Explain the "now effect."
DUNCAN: The "now effect" is an aspect of the Royal steering current of the life force; whereby whatever portion of the life force that we're talking about is effected by the immediate situation of what is happening as it applies to itself and...
THERRY: How does X equals the plant kingdom apply?
DUNCAN: Uh-mmm. I would say that applies, because if I affect or try to affect the plant kingdom, that in its own way it will immediately to try to deal with that, I guess the environmental pressure or whatever you want to call it.
THERRY: So have you not answered your question?
DUNCAN: Uh-hmmm. I would have to think about it.
THERRY: Okay, you think about it and when you've finished thinking about it, come on back. Do you know anybody who will ever, ever understand the whole?
DUNCAN: From this level, no.
THERRY: Then why should you try? What the hell makes you a God?
DUNCAN: It could be several things.
DUNCAN: It could be several things.
THERRY: Oh, okay. If your task is indeed to understand the Universe and you can't understand the whole, then you only have one other choice, you start back at the other part, right?
THERRY: So you're ready to go back to study the whole?
SKIE: No, but I think that...
THERRY: So what the hell are you doing it there for?
DUNCAN: I don't know. This is something that's been bothering me ever since I started studying it. I don't know what it is.
THERRY: Then try and find out what it is.