Arkashean Q&A Session -- 085
JOE: Donna, I noticed that you've been rather quiet for the past hour. Is there anything that you want to share with us?
THERRY: You seem to be in and out of your In Between Time.
JOE: Do you want to share with us... so we can better understand what's happening?
DONNA: When Therry told me that it was my pattern to link up with Reggy and then leave early--via death--not always cancer like this time, I truly felt 'abandon hope' for the first time. What an idiot, why, I mean WHY would I continue to do this to myself. And, since here I was doing it again, obviously I haven't broken the pattern yet. My equilibrium rocked, my happy serene death experience interrupted by an unpleasant look in the mirror, I felt despair. Trapped. The idea of dying only to come back and do the same things over seemed like the height of irony. After a day or so of depression and talking it over with various people I came to feel that death is giving me an opportunity to start over again. I may be dealing with the same the pattern, and I may not break the cycle next time, but I do know that I've made some positive changes this life. Dealing with my death is a little like writing my own report card complete with suggestions from the teacher on how to improve my grades for next semester. So, abandon hope--yes and no. Yes, we are trapped in our illusions and we certainly know how to serve up pain for ourselves and others. And, no because by understanding this law, we can begin to release ourselves from our traps.
After a while, I started thinking about what I learned about the ABSENCE/PRESENCE pairing... I started to think of this one with regard to Karma. There was a recent news story of a cab driver who was savagely beaten to death while all the neighbors watched from their windows, doing nothing. This is absence. You should have done something but you didn't. There is an accrual of Karma for omitting actions just as surely as there is Karma for committing actions, which would be presence -- the presence of an act.
GERRIE: Okay. Uh-hmmm. What is the meaning of Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter?
THERRY: That's the sign... the warning that is written on the Door of Earth.
GERRIE: Okay, how was that related to the first thought then.
THERRY: No, it's not.
GERRIE: It's not? I'm getting confused. How about "What If, and But?" "What, If and But" relates to the first thought, and what is the second thought? Is it when we came down or the Descent or something?
THERRY: That doesn't apply.
GERRIE: Okay, how about a different question. This has to do with Hades. The laboratory is in Hades, right?
GERRIE: Do people in near-death experiences or coma situations go to Hades?
THERRY: They can but it doesn't necessarily happen though. There are a lot of other levels of experience other than Hades.
GERRIE: But isn't Hades a place, well, not a place, but it's a state of being, right?
GERRIE: So it's a state of being which allows you to transition between one level and another?
GERRIE: Okay. Uh-hmmm. So why have people gotten the wrong impression that Hades is hell?
GERRIE: Oh. Corruption of religion or what?
THERRY: Yes or purpose.
GERRIE: Or purpose? What do you mean by that?
THERRY: Mind control.
GERRIE: Okay. So the religious conception of purgatory is almost, not almost, because it talks about purgatory as a place...
THERRY: Purgatory doesn't exist. That is a Christian creation.
GERRIE: But it sounds like the same concept though.
THERRY: It still doesn't exist and it's still a Christian creation.
GERRIE: But then we don't know that Hades exists though...
THERRY: Yes, we know that Hades exists.
GERRIE: Okay. Not on the conscious level.
THERRY: It doesn't change the fact that purgatory doesn't exist.
TARRO: Are the veils lifted in Hades or are they checked?
TARRO: Is that for everybody?
THERRY: Depends on the individual's Karma.
GERRIE: Oh, oh, I see. That's how you learn though, because the veils are lifted.
GERRIE: Yes, but you said that the veils for suicide are lifted. No, hold on, wait, no, no, no. That's not true. Is it true?
THERRY: Well, which one is it, is it true or is it not true?
GERRIE: I don't know. I'm getting confused now. Yeah, they're not lifted in suicide...
GERRIE: ...until they've suffered enough pain and then they come back [to the Earth Experience] to learn.
GERRIE: Oh, okay. This is like a dream question. Uh-hmmm. I had a conversation with Wayne. He said that there's a paradox where you can't learn anything in the laboratory until you learn some things on our level and vice versa.
GERRIE: Now, how does that work?
THERRY: The trickling down effect.
GERRIE: Trickling down?
THERRY: Right. Each respective area or level is separated by specific types of barriers. Communication between or across that barrier is given by very specific laws. Just because you have an experience on one level, that doesn't automatically mean that you're going to have that same experience or that you're going to have awareness of that experience on other levels.
GERRIE: Yeah, but then, what he said is that if you can't learn anything down here until you learn it in the laboratory, but you can't learn anything in the laboratory until you learn down here, so that's confusing though.
THERRY: No. In order to have a learning process, you must have communication across a barrier. Therefore, if you have an experience upon a higher level, but you do not have an awareness of that experience on this level, then you don't learn on this level.
GERRIE: Oh, okay. So you're saying that with time, it'll trickle-down and then you can... So you still keep on having recurring dreams until you become conscious of what you're dreaming about and then you can learn about it?
THERRY: Depends on the individual's Karma.
GERRIE: Oh, okay. Can you explain the distinction between the state of love and the emotion of love?
THERRY: Condition of love?
THERRY: The condition of love is a bonding which is based on mutual satisfaction of needs. The state of love is unconditional and it doesn't come from the Earth experience.
GERRIE: Now, is the union...
THERRY: The state of love is more spiritual in nature.
THERRY: The condition of love depends on the situation, the time, the place and the purpose.
GERRIE: Now, how does this relate to the union then? Is the union the condition of love?
THERRY: Usually, yeah.
GERRIE: Oh I thought of it as mostly spiritual though.
THERRY: Well, there are levels of spirituality, the same way there are levels of everything else.
GERRIE: Oh, okay.
THERRY: Even though something may be carnal in nature, if it is on the highest aspect on carnal nature, it's perceived of as spirituality, but if it's on the lower aspect of carnal behavior, then it's simply perceived as getting your rocks off.
TARRO: What is the union? Is that what you said, the union?
THERRY: Yes. For instance, there was a union in order for man to come to Earth.
TARRO: So, its sexual, is that what it means? ...or does it mean...
THERRY: No, it doesn't have to be limited to the sexual. It's the interaction of the three levels--cognitive, effective and psychomotor for both parties. It's called the union.
GERRIE: But I thought that it was kind'a special, though.
THERRY: It can be, but it doesn't have to be. A lot of people who go through it don't think it special.
DONNA: It's something that I have only really experienced when I was conscious.
THERRY: That indicates that it is [the state of love], but if it is towards any specific individual [it's not].
DONNA: It doesn't leave my brain...
THERRY: Okay, then it's the state of love.
DONNA: It doesn't come to Earth?
THERRY: No, the closest you can feel it on Earth is the mutual satisfaction of needs.
DONNA: Is that why we go through all of this in relationships?
THERRY: Yes. Yeah.
GERRIE: Then how does that relate to true love?
THERRY: See the union is the closest that you can come to true love on carnal nature.
THERRY: So long as you're on the physical, the union is the closest to love.
GERRIE: Can you repeat that definition again?
THERRY: Well, the union is when two bodies unite, mind, body and soul to create a channel for another individual to come to Earth.
GERRIE: Oh, okay.
THERRY: Everything else is just getting your rocks off with a slingshot sometimes.
GERRIE: Uh-hmmm. If you're spiritual... or if you're perfectly spiritual, which most people aren't...
THERRY: No such thing.
THERRY: No such thing. If you're perfect anything, you're not on the Planet Earth.
GERRIE: So if you're on the highest level, like the 143rd level, you're still not perfect?
THERRY: Are you still on Planet Earth?
THERRY: If you are, then you're not perfect.
GERRIE: Oh, okay.
THERRY: There is no such thing as perfection on Earth.
THERRY: Even the concept of perfection is imperfect.
GERRIE: Hmmm. So no-one on the Planet Earth can experience the state of love then?
THERRY: No, not while you're on the Planet Earth. You can... your nature, let's say of spirituality, can be in an alter-reality and experience the state of love. But it is only part of you that is doing it.
GERRIE: But if you're following the Arkashean way of life, you're approaching the state of love, right?
THERRY: It's like a butterfly, the more you chase it, the further away it goes. In order to experience the state of love, you have to be quiet. You can't chase it, you just have to be and it will find you. So long as you chase it, however close you get, it's always on the next bend or on the next set of experiences or on the next person.
GERRIE: But you don't have to apply some effort to be spiritual every moment though?
THERRY: What does that got to do with love?
GERRIE: I think it's all related.
THERRY: Didn't you just change the subject on me.
THERRY: You can chase spirituality, you can chase it till the cows come home and quite often get it, but I don't see how that applies to love.
GERRIE: I thought that there's a connection between the state of love and spirituality?
THERRY: That doesn't change the fact that they are two separate phenomenon.
GERRIE: Okay, so what is the connection between the state of love and spirituality?
THERRY: Spirituality is a type of commitment that you make where you have agreed to limit the carnal nature to a varying degree. The state of love is the reward that you get for having done that.
GERRIE: Okay. Hmmm.
DONNA: So is being human practice?
TARRO: You're practicing, you're trying to put into effect a way that you don't know about.
TARRO: So it leaves you other things.
THERRY: Yes. Being human is not a means and a cause unto itself. It's simply one step along the line, however long that line is, towards, for the lack of a better word, perfection. Let's say that we're all in a classroom, learning to become Gods. Now, all we have to do is find some sucker who'll believe in us. (Laughter)
THERRY: On this Planet, many people succeed. There's a lot of charlatans out there. Anytime, you come across somebody who starts out with, "Believe me," you should beware. Another good one, "Trust me!" "Su-r-r-e!" He definitely ain't playing with a full deck.
TARRO: So if there's something they want you know exactly what it is.
THERRY: Yep. It's either your money or your mind. Sometimes both.
TARRO: I've only got one to worry about.
TARRO: If somebody wants one of those things, as ludicrous as it may seem, they'll go a long ways to get it!
GERRIE: May I sit here?
TARRO: Hey, Therry, if somebody wants the answer to something, whatever it need be, from gardening, to theater, to poetry to whatever, even if it is from their own experience. Well, sometimes you can smell it, the right times [to answer and], depending on what the situation is, you can tell someone the truth to a question if they ask you. Specifically, you know, and they will...
THERRY: Slosh it off.
TARRO: No, they can't... if we're talking about a situation when someone wants to know something so they can use it for their own ends, it still won't work when they use it for their own ends from I've noticed.
TARRO: It'll all be... you know I'm blocked.
THERRY: Correct. They're guards.
TARRO: So, it's okay to tell people [answers to their questions]?
THERRY: Not all the time. We should never burst a person's illusions.
TARRO: You cover it up. So if they're only doing that to get things from you, or hear themselves otherwise, you're getting a raw deal... I don't know about this. It's politics.
TARRO: 'Cause if they really wanted to hear the real truth, they would hear it.
THERRY: They probably wouldn't come to you. If they'd want to hear the real truth, they'd mean it and find the truth there.
GERRIE: So if you see someone...
TARRO: You mean in terms of your own work?
TARRO: Or you'd tell them and they'd say, "Yes." They would see it and... I've had people...
THERRY: That's not how you give them the truth. See the process there is that they'll ask you an "if" type question, like "Am I good here?" and then you could say, "Yeah." And then they'd take that and they'd take it inward and they'd evaluate it, and if they don't believe that you told them that they're good, they'd get their answer from inside.
TARRO: Right. So if they came back and started acting this way about it, [like] "So I want to work on this, or I want to work this," you can tell them.
THERRY: Yes. But you can only tell them in response to...
TARRO: What they want to hear.
THERRY: And you can only tell them in response to a question that they have asked. And you have to limit yourself to that question. Right. You can't get on your soapbox and start preaching just because somebody else has started preaching, just because somebody asks, "What time is it?" It doesn't mean that they want to know all about your life. You simply answer the question and nothing more.
TARRO: 'Cause that's all they asked.
THERRY: 'Cause that's all they're ready for.
GERRIE: But sometimes when they ask, they really don't want to hear anyway, though.
GERRIE: So consider that in when you use your judgment about answering people's questions?
THERRY: Stick to the question, right.
GERRIE: Oh, okay.
THERRY: That's like when a child asks, where do I come from? Tell him Chicago, don't get into sex.
GERRIE: You think so?
GERRIE: Up till what age though?
THERRY: It'd be terrible if he comes from New York. (Laughter)
GERRIE: (Laughter) Oh, gosh!
THERRY: The thing here is, obviously you have to use your head when you're answering somebody else's questions.
GERRIE: Yeah, yeah. Right.
TARRO: It'd be different with another type of information though.
THERRY: No, it's the same.
TARRO: It's the same?
THERRY: The bonding that you have between two people does not change the cause of the communication.
TARRO: No, it doesn't?
THERRY: They are still them and you are still you. They still have their own levels of knowledge, wisdom, expectations and demands and you still have yours. They are still them, you are still you, she is still her, it is still it. The barriers between you two have not been removed, so you're not one, so therefore, the laws of communication still exist.
TARRO: No matter what the situation... And no matter how close you are to someone, or whatever, and if they ask you one question, you answer that thing.
TARRO: And you can only answer from what you're thinking at the moment?
THERRY: No. That's the mark of being trapped. If you answer the question that they've asked, depending on the question, the first level of truth is to get yourself out of the way, and then answer the question from that level. Then the second level of truth is to answer the question from the basis of how you're feeling for the moment, which is okay, providing you let the person know that this is the way for the moment.
TARRO: It's this way for the moment. I understand. Well, that makes things much better though.
THERRY: Correct. But it doesn't fulfill the other people's demands and can create problems, especially if the question is, "Do you love me?" "I haven't had enough sex, of course, I love you, stupid." But will I love you tomorrow? Likewise, "Do you love me?" "Hey, remember the..., you support me. Of course, I love you!" When I'm all alone, I'm supporting myself and I don't need you anymore, maybe something will be different. Levels of truth in communication.
TARRO: I don't like asking these questions!
THERRY: [Laughter] Just because we don't like the truth of it, doesn't change the fact that it is. And it is still levels of communication. Just because somebody asks a question, there's no law that says you can't lie.
DONNA: But why should you lie? Why should you lie?
THERRY: No. The original question was levels of truth. Just because there is a fake bond with somebody, that doesn't mean that you should be totally honest. That'd be stupid in many circumstances. Absolute honesty can create a hell of a lot of pain.
GERRIE: Well, I don't understand that...
THERRY: But that doesn't mean that you should make a practice of deceiving [people].
You have to take into account of levels 'cause there are levels of truth. An omission can still be a truth on its respective level.
TARRO: Omission can be truth, how?
THERRY: On its respective level.
TARRO: Can it be...
THERRY: If somebody is sitting there and they have a spot on their arm and you recognize it as cancer and they say, "What's this?" you really don't have to tell them that they're going to die of cancer, they're going to rot away and they're going to be in a hole. I mean its stupid to tell them that. Just say, "It looks like it's a mark." Hey, you've omitted telling them the truth, but it was a fact, [and] you were still truthful on its respective level.
TARRO: Right. But that's that... alright, fine. Well, somebody's got to tell the truth [that way] you would both know what the other person is saying.
THERRY: Yes. But that's beside the point. That's levels of communication, not levels of truth.
GERRIE: So, you're saying that it's okay to lie as long as you're...
THERRY: No, I'm not saying it's okay to lie. Lying by definition means that you specifically have the intention of doing harm.
GERRIE: Oh, okay. So...
THERRY: All I'm saying is that, there are levels of truth and it depends on the situation.
GERRIE: So, when you first told me that I have a problem with my levels of truth, is that...
THERRY: You negotiate too much.
GERRIE: You think so?
GERRIE: But what does that mean though. Is "compromising" the same thing?
THERRY: Well, I use a different word rather than "compromise."
THERRY: Yeah. Trade-off.
THERRY: Sometimes a special set of circumstances are okay, but then when it comes to another set of circumstances which the same as the first but it works against something that you want, then suddenly it ain't okay anymore.
GERRIE: Oh, okay.
THERRY: You change your definitions to suit your purpose.
GERRIE: Oh, okay.
THERRY: I call that negotiating.
GERRIE: Oh. So, if I respect the same definition to all things, then I'd be in better off shape then?
GERRIE: In terms of levels of truth then?
THERRY: In terms of levels of understanding too.
THERRY: You know, when you change your definitions so often to suit your purpose, then it's easy to become bemused, and then get yourself caught in a state that you've forgotten what the real truth is.
GERRIE: Alright. Okay. Hmmm. I notice that sometimes I try to make logic out of things, like analyze things to fit a certain answer or something like that? Is that the same thing as negotiating with truth?
THERRY: Yeah, yeah. You take something and sort of bend it until it's what you want it. I won't say that you lie, you just bend the truth a little until it fits you.
GERRIE: So how do I discern what is the truth then if I tend to do that a lot?
THERRY: Learn not to do it.
GERRIE: Well, how do you do that then?
THERRY: Well, that I can't tell you, because everybody's different.
GERRIE: Hmmm. Is it going to pick up from here?
THERRY: Well, let's find out.
GERRIE: I guess, I think we talked about inner truth last time and I wanted to know if there was anything more that I should know about it and if you can tell me differently. There is this one incident that happened, when I started seeing a shrink or just one person that I had a confrontation with and he kind of tricked me into looking at a list of things and telling me what my thoughts were about it on a range of being truthful or whatever and when I looked at the top of it, the heading was levels of distorted thinking and I was like, "Oh, my gosh!" Does that mean that my thinking is like totally distorted!" So that made me really insecure about how, you know, I could even do about my thinking process truthfully, you know.
THERRY: You can't pay close attention to that stuff.
GERRIE: No? Why?
THERRY: 'Cause they have their own labels for many things.
GERRIE: Right, oh, okay. So that's just like...
THERRY: You got to remember that you're talking about a baby science and they're many crackpots in it. They make things up as they go along.
GERRIE: Right. But I've come upon some things that you had mentioned to me about my levels of assumptions and I know that I was assuming certain things.
THERRY: It doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't put too much emphasis on the labels that you use.
GERRIE: So if you start seeing a shrink and they're certain problems, then how... I mean what other things can you kind of disregard then? I mean, how are you able to get some value out of them and still kind of disregard some things, you know?
THERRY: By being as honest as you can with yourself and don't borrow trouble. I mean if he says, just pick a word on this list, and just because the list's titled "Levels of Crazy" well, that doesn't mean that you're crazy!
THERRY: I mean, it's his label, not yours.
GERRIE: Yeah, okay. Uh-hmmm. Oh, yeah, with the inner truth thing, when I started seeing another woman psychologist, I mentioned to her that I was really concerned about my levels of inner truth, of honesty and stuff and of course, she didn't know what I was getting at. She kept on hearing me repeat those things and she said, "Oh, you don't have a problem at all." And I was like, how can I get two different things from two different people and still value what the two different people say as well, you know?
THERRY: Remember, you're talking about a baby science!
GERRIE: Baby science, okay.
THERRY: [With] psychiatrists, just because they have a shingle on their wall, doesn't mean make them perfect! Take it with a grain of salt. Each individual has their own perspective, their own way of looking at things and their own way of doing things.
GERRIE: So then what's the value of going to a shrink at all then?
THERRY: Because they at least have sufficient education to guide you and possibly see things in a different way, and that gives you another way of looking at something.
GERRIE: Right. So otherwise if I just relied on myself then, it'd be a question of waiting forever or a longer period of time because I won't see things objectively or what?
GERRIE: Oh. But in any case, you won't see what you don't want to see anyway.
THERRY: That's true.
GERRIE: So I guess it's just me being open enough to see what the other person is, I guess seeing. Now I know that I'm totally playing games when it comes to this career bit and...
THERRY: If you play games, you're going to pay for it.
THERRY: Nothing is for free.
GERRIE: Well, I guess what it is that... I know that I'm going to pursue it, it's just times that sometimes I get really scared just because...
THERRY: Everybody gets scared.
THERRY: So you're not alone there. That's part of why the world is screwed up.
GERRIE: Yeah. Yeah, but... oh, okay. I mean but in terms of doing the paralegal things as opposed to going back to urban planning and everything, one of the main things is money and of course, when I thought about it, I said, okay, maybe that's a game too, so I can maybe accept that, but the money thing is like a big issue, especially in terms of paying school loans and stuff.
THERRY: You do what you've got to do in order to take care of your needs and then worry about it afterwards.
GERRIE: Don't worry about the decision?
GERRIE: Yeah. Also I just feel insecure about my ability to do law school, sometimes I feel like, "Okay, Judy, you can do that," but it's like my process of making any logic is so ridiculous sometimes" because I don't think things through enough, I don't ask questions enough and then I think "What kind of lawyer am I going to make?" You know what I'm saying? I mean these kinds of things are basics of thinking and communication!
THERRY: You'll learn, you'll learn.
GERRIE: Like in law school, in the process?
THERRY: In the process.
GERRIE: So is that a question of like, discipline or something?
GERRIE: But with other people it comes more naturally though?
THERRY: From their point of view.
GERRIE: Alright. So that's a question of honing different skills? For example, there are some things that I won't be able to put my finger on that have been honed in my upbringing, okay, and maybe other things that throughout my years twenty through thirty that I've learnt through experience and I guess I've tried to develop, so I guess this is the same thing too, right?
GERRIE: And other things that I've ignored. Uh-hmmm. It just seems so stupid, like...
THERRY: Nobody's perfect.
THERRY: We don't always think sharply, sometimes we make errors. That's the nature of humanity.
GERRIE: Uh-hmmm. Okay. I guess it's just a question of being disciplined as far as learning... I mean, I do notice that when I put more energy into things, like when I did start applying more energy to looking for the paralegal things and just kept at it, that things started falling in place, you know, but I guess often times I'm really lazy and I don't follow through on things.. What confused me is that I felt that I would have to quit being artistic then.
THERRY: The term artistic is a catchall phrase.
GERRIE: It doesn't mean anything:
THERRY: In and of itself, it doesn't mean anything at all.
GERRIE: Oh, okay. Well, now I think I've kind of reconciled the problem of whether I should just drop whatever I'm doing video-wise, and just pursue the paralegal thing alone. I decided to enjoy both.
THERRY: You've got to decide that yourself.
GERRIE: Oh, I know that. I've decided and I'm enjoying that and just, you know, letting whatever happens, and in the meantime, the paralegal thing will give me money, which I need anyway, so it's no big deal and I'll able to indulge my artistic side.
It has been written that I have placed my limitations where they would serve me best. . . If this is true, why can I not remember the deeds that now rule me. . . Why is my past hidden!