Arkashean Q&A Session -- 089
REED: So, given that, it seems that you can still not encourage something and yet allow them to do it.
THERRY: Not true...
REED: If they wish to...
THERRY: Not true.
REED: You're not encouraging them to drink beer.
THERRY: It's got nothing to do with encouragement or lack of encouragement. The subject you're bringing on is the "Farm," the entity called "The Farm" makes a statement, "We frown upon," "we" being society.
REED: We well maybe that's somebody's opinion. I don't know if you're speaking for the whole society.
THERRY: That's immaterial, that's immaterial, okay.
REED: Why is that immaterial?
WAN: Because of the statement you made.
THERRY: The statement that you made is "we." She is representative of "The Farm," therefore the entity called society frowns on it.
REED: Well, I don't know if I was quoting her directly...
THERRY: That's immaterial either. The point here is, if the entity called society frowns on something, that something that they frown upon must be put in a form of law in order to have any security for society.
REED: Well, what about in our society, let's say we frown on it because we realize that people can get sick, but...
THERRY: We don't frown on it. That's the whole point.
REED: What do you call it?
THERRY: We say, it is legalized. We allow you to do anything you want, within any time you want, under any condition, except you cannot be drunk. That's the limit we've placed.
THERRY: Now, once you get drunk, you're dead!
REED: I'm not talking about drunk. I'm talking about alcohol before that.
THERRY: But that's the whole point
REED: I'm not dealing with that aspect of it.
THERRY: that's the whole point, alcohol itself, we don't care. You're free, do anything you want, except get drunk. In other words, we don't frown upon it, the thing we frown upon it getting drunk. We don't frown on alcohol, we frown on you getting drunk. That means it doesn't matter if you're using beer, wine, whiskey, or vapor, fumes, anything, anything whatsoever that gets you drunk.
REED: You keep going back to that. I don't care about that. I understand that. I'm not dealing with that aspect of it.
THERRY: Neither am I. The aspect that I'm dealing about is the aspect of frowning on something.
REED: Okay, since we know that people can, like you said, some people can get sick on just a drop.
THERRY: Well, we don't care.
REED: But what if we do care.
THERRY: We don't care. We've already stated that the only thing we care about is that you don't get drunk.
REED: We've already...
THERRY: The rest of it is your responsibility. Remember, we're not talking about individuals, we're talking about society.
REED: Well, okay. Remember back when...before we formed the society and we had three individuals now some of the individuals said, "Well, maybe we shouldn't allow it at all, because some people are going to get sick.
THERRY: You're getting, you're getting mixed again. You're again trying to talk on the individual stage. You cannot! You cannot pass your laws based on the individual!
THERRY: You must base your laws solely on society.
REED: Okay, so based on society these individuals who're passing the laws say it may be bad for society to allow any alcohol, they might get sick, that will affect their jobs, their families, etc. it would not be good for society.
THERRY: That's immaterial, simply because you have already determined we will allow.
REED: I'm going back in time, we have not determined that yet.
REED: So some people say we should not allow it because of this reason.
THERRY: Okay. Right.
REED: Some other people come turn around and say, "Yes, you have a point, but perhaps we should allow it because if we don't allow it, we're going to have a small society."
THERRY: Okay, you're repeating yourself now.
REED: So, they say, "Well, we'll allow it, but we don't like it because...We'll allow because we have to because we don't want such a small society, but we don't really like it."
THERRY: You can't do it.
REED: Why not? That's what the Farm's doing.
THERRY: No it isn't. No isn't. You can't have a society that frowns on something yet allows it. That's an inconsistency in terms.
WAN: Society won't be content.
THERRY: Right. See the society cannot let things go both ways...
REED: Okay, so then what you're saying, they did the other thing, they said, "Okay, if we don't allow it, we're going to have a too small society."
THERRY: No, what happens is that your laws based on the whole. The thing you frown on is not alcohol, the things you frown on is getting drunk. That means...
REED: I wasn't talking about that.
THERRY: No, no, no, you're talking about the process of frowning on something. Okay? There is a way of making your laws such that you don't have to not like a thing such as alcohol. but yet allow it. See you can eliminate that by the way you create your laws, instead you make your laws governing a behavior, for instance...
REED: But we've already taken care of the behavior of getting drunk.
THERRY: I'm not talking about the behavior, I am talking about frowning, a government frowning on something. There is no need...a government does not have to or a society does not have to frown on something and still allow something to happen. There's a way out of that.
REED: What is that way?
THERRY: Well, let's say for instance, in this particular case, in this particular example, you used the word alcohol, based on the fact that some people will get sick based on one drink.
THERRY: So, because of that you want to frown on alcohol itself.
REED: Right, but you don't want to eliminate it.
THERRY: Right, so therefore you leave alcohol alone totally. You don't touch it. You don't frown on it. You leave it alone totally. You ignore it. What you frown upon is the effect of alcohol. Specifically, getting drunk. Now you have an automatic sliding scale. Now automatically, it's not if or not you have alcohol, but if or not you're drunk regardless of how much you have. For some people, twenty thousand barrels it'll be their limit, because then they'll get drunk; for some people, another person, a whole ocean will be their limit, because that's what they'll get drunk; some other people, two drops will be their limit, because that's when they're drunk. And other people, the smell of it as they pass by the barroom is enough to get them drunk, so that's their limit. You get what I mean? You have a sliding scale. You phrase your laws in such a way, that you allow everybody freedom, but yet the behavior itself that you do not want is solidly law.
REED: Okay, so let me ask you a question. Is it possible that that person on The Farm who told me that statement was not being an accurate representative of the society? Is it possible that the society couldn't care less if you had alcohol?
THERRY: Of course it is possible, but it wouldn't change the pattern.
REED: Would it?
THERRY: It would not change the fact that that society is falling.
REED: It may be falling, but I don't see what it has to do with their allowing alcohol. What if they don't care about alcohol?
THERRY: But that's immaterial, can't you see? It is not the fact that alcohol exists or does not exist, allowed or not allowed. That's got nothing to do with it.
REED: What if they don't even frown on it?
THERRY: That's got nothing to do with it either.
REED: What does have to do with then?
THERRY: What it has to do with, is if a society does not want a specific behavior and if they do not go about making relatively certain to prevent that behavior, that society's going to fall.
REED: Okay, well, what if they don't care about...
THERRY: And it's obvious...
REED: ...that particular behavior.
THERRY: No, no, no, we're talking about patterns now. Stay out of specifics. Again, the behavior in question, could be...the target behavior could be anything -- sucking your toe on Wednesday, if you want, anything, it doesn't matter what it is. If a society does not want that behavior, they've got to find a way of preventing that behavior
REED: At all costs.
THERRY: ...at all costs. Because the alternative is the destruction of society. And what the hell good is the destruction of society. What the hell good is that? You've made your entire existence futile, absurd.
REED: Okay, so when you're making your society...
THERRY: The thing that you have to protect is that fictitious society called society.
REED: Okay and in its protection, do you decide well what things will hurt it and you pass a law preventing those things from being?
THERRY: Well, not necessarily true, but you can...you cannot at the same time, lose sight of the fact that society is composed of people. See there's a very, very, very delicate balance, very delicate. If you create a set of laws that so hampers the people but totally protects the society, the society's going to fall out of revolution, so you have to have a delicate balance so's that the rules of society are secure and at the same time, the people have enough freedoms to make life suitable for them. When a society becomes so oppressive, that the people themselves no longer have the worth of living in that society, then of course, that society's also going to fall, only this time it's going to fall out of revolution rather than through corruption.
REED: So how do you find that delicate balance?
THERRY: You have to be careful about how you make your laws and you have to be broadminded enough to allow certain behaviors to exist that in themselves will not harm society, even though it's decadent behavior.
REED: Such as?
THERRY: Gambling. Uhhm. Liquor, horse races, divorce, uhh, adoption, uhh, stuff like that, you know.
REED: Now, you mentioned two things, first divorce that you would have to allow that, but Arkashea's not going to allow that. And second, adoption, and why is adoption listed under decadent behavior?
THERRY: Because adoption means that there are some people who do not want their children. They're giving their children up. They don't want to take responsibility for them.
REED: Oh, okay. I thought adoption would also be in the case of...
THERRY: There are two sides to a coin. In order...
REED: What if the parents die?
THERRY: Well, that's just only one side of it.
REED: Okay, 'cuz you threw up the whole word adoption in it.
THERRY: Because that means both sides of it. There are many, many ways a child can become adoptable.
REED: So if his parents die and he's orphaned and he's adopted by a loving couple, that is not decadent.
REED: But if his parents want to get rid of him.
THERRY: But there's a side of it that is decadent, so therefore, the whole thing comes under decadent behavior. Remember now, we're not talking about the individual's rights, we're talking about the welfare of the society and we're not talking about religion. There's a difference there. Don't get caught up in religious morality, because that's a load of crap.
REED: I'm not! You just put adoption under decadent behavior and I don't see why...
THERRY: The only reason for it ...
REED:...at least half of it is.
THERRY: Okay, let me show you why. Is it possible to put only half of you in a coffin and bury?
REED: Yeah, with a chain saw right down the middle.
THERRY: That destroys all of you, right?
THERRY: That means all of you is going to end up being buried.
REED: You can cremate the other half.
REED: You'd cremate half and bury half.
THERRY: Either way, only half of you is dead.
THERRY: Or rather, all of you is dead, I'm sorry.
REED: Yeah, yeah.
THERRY: So it's impossible for half of you to die and the rest of you to live a healthy life, the same way it's impossible for the word "adoption" to imply only those children who are parentless because of the death of their parents.
REED: Just as it's impossible to say that adoption applies only to those unwanted children.
THERRY: Exactly, therefore since it applies to both automatically, if you're talking about decadent behavior, you have to say adoption, right? Because you're talking about that portion of the meaning of the word that is unwanted.
THERRY: ...or would prefer to be let go.
REED: Okay. Now about divorce you said that you would have to allow divorce.
THERRY: Yeah, in our society.
REED: Arkashea's not going to allow divorce.
THERRY: Well, in a way it is.
REED: If you divorce, we'll kill ya?
THERRY: No, the thing is, divorce has more than one meaning to it. It could be the reneging of nuptial bonds. It could mean the negation of the nuptial bond, bonds.
REED: What's the difference?
THERRY: It's very simple, the negation means you cancel them, whereas when you renege on them, you don't do what you're supposed to do, but you're still bound to them by law. The difference between people separating and going and living in two different places. They're still married. They can't just arbitrarily go off and get married to somebody else. But if you negate the bonds, now you can go off and get married to somebody else because you're no longer married.
REED: So are you saying that Arkashea will allow one of these and not the other?
REED: Which will it allow?
THERRY: It will allow separation. The reneging of the bonds, but it will not allow the...in short, in Arkashea, if two people are just not compatible or grow to become incompatible, they're not going to forced to live with one another just the same, just because they're married. That'd be stupid. The society will fall. What you allow is each people...We would allow people to get separated. Well, all of that means that while both people can go off and live their own life, they can not go off and get married to somebody else.
REED: Why not?
THERRY: Because there's no divorce.
REED: Why not?
THERRY: Because we don't want no divorce. That's one of our standards.
REED: Why did that become a standard?
THERRY: Because we don't want a society that ultimately becomes a whorehouse of sorts. The only way to prevent a whorehouse is to prevent any indiscriminate sex and one of the rules of preventing indiscriminate sex is allowing people to use marriage as a license for different partners. We just don't want that.
REED: Okay, let me ask you another question. You keep mentioning the word "whorehouse."
THERRY: What's your definition of whorehouse?
REED: My definition of whorehouse is, a place where you go, pay money for sex.
THERRY: We have a different definition.
REED: What is that?
THERRY: Our definition is, anyplace that you can go to have sex, whereby it is not your legal right [...] Sex outside of marriage. Anyplace where you can freely have sex where there is no marriage is a whorehouse. That's our definition. Now there are very specific reasons for this.
THERRY: Well, children learn based on imitation and values that they take on. Now, if we're talking about society again, society can be immortal, providing the replacements, which are the children, carry on the same burden, the same cause, the same values, okay? Therefore, the key here is to raise the children in a such a way that they hold sacred the original precept to that society. That means that also, indirectly, those children have to hold sacred certain things. Well, if you teach them that you don't have to take responsibility for your own behavior, because you can get out of it, just divorce 'em, get rid of them, then you're teaching them decadence in that, you're inbreeding, teaching them that nothing is sacred.
REED: Can I ask you a question?
REED: Is pregnancy...
THERRY: See, the key here is the fact that you are teaching them that nothing is absolutely sacred. Anything that is sacred, what you call sacred can be changed to suit you, so that...you no longer have anything sacred.
THERRY: So it's a very small, small, small step from saying..."Well, this is sacred, let's change it. So hell, let's change something else that's sacred!" And then first thing you know, society's gone.
REED: If the reason that sex is considered sacred is because of pregnancy and the responsibilities that go along with that?
THERRY: No, that's only a small, small, small part of it.
REED: What is the rest of it?
THERRY: The psychic part of it.
REED: Can you explain?
THERRY: Well, what is the purpose of bringing life upon the face of earth?
REED: To create a channel that someone can use and experience?
THERRY: Experience what? Hell? What is Jacob's Ladder?
REED: A road...a ladder that leads off of the physical, off of the trap of earth.
THERRY: In other words, it is a system whereby psychic guides come down to earth to help the people free themselves from the traps that they're in, right?
THERRY: It teaches them values, it teaches them sacredness, right? That means that if a person fails to do the best they can under all conditions in one life, they have a second chance to do better by being reborn. Therefore sex itself is the only door into the planet, right?
REED: For that...for that second chance?
THERRY: For any chance, it doesn't matter what...it's the second, fourth, ninth or what.
REED: So without...
THERRY: Sex itself is the only door into the planet and the purpose for a person to re-enter the planet is to be able to free themselves from the planet, right.
THERRY: Therefore, sex itself being a door into the planet, is also responsible for upholding the purpose of that planet, the purpose of having that door. The individuals who have sex bear the responsibility of teaching that new entrant, that new neophyte all the virtues that will enable that person to free itself from the bonds of earth, right.
THERRY: Now, if you take that purpose, you think that will be able to be accomplished through indiscriminate sex and divorce?
THERRY: There's the reason.
REED: I have a question, uhm.
THERRY: Remember, we are a sacred society, we made no bones about it from the very beginning. Our purpose is for our psychic reasoning, not for pleasure pranks.
REED: When a couple is married and they have sex and use contraceptives, either they have a kid already or they have two or three kids, or they don't have any kids yet and they're waiting for a time that they're more financially able to have kids and yet they still screw a lot, not for the purpose of having kids, but to meet each other needs... Are they defeating the purpose?
THERRY: Of course not. They're still human. Humans have needs and if those needs are not met, there's no way they're going to uphold the high sacred needs. When they're using contraceptives, they are simply saying, "Hey, we're meeting the human needs, but we're not yet prepared to handle the high sacred needs of bringing another person on earth."
REED: Now if someone has pre-marital sex, are they not saying the same thing?
THERRY: Now, that has a different effect. That's totally different. Pre-marital sex is teaching the future that nothing is sacred and since it's teaching that nothing is sacred, it is the seed of the destruction of the whole. Can you see the difference? Pre-marital sex, gives you the big possibility, if not probability for bringing another person into the world, in a condition where the high requirements cannot be met. Can you see that? The high sacred requirements, the psychic requirements of bringing in a new child, that cannot be met under pre-marital sex or indiscriminate sex.
REED: Could it be...if you had pre-marital sex with your girlfriend, you got her pregnant and you said, "Well, I got her pregnant, this is my responsibility for this life that's going to come into this world..."
THERRY: That's bull! You're talking about ...you're talking about a set of people who don't need laws.
REED: Yeah, okay, I'm not really talking about laws, I'm just, I'm getting into an aside for a minute...
THERRY: But you are talking about laws. You're talking about making rules that govern people.
REED: Okay, I'd like to go into an aside and not talk about laws, but just about an individual's choice aside from law. In the outside world you can have indiscriminate sex all you want. Let's say you're in the outside world.
THERRY: But also the outside world has nothing whatsoever...they don't even know about the high sacred laws.
REED: So, I'm talking about me as an individual or anyone, Joe Schmoe who has somewhat higher ideals than most of the people in the world and yet he's still had pre-marital sex and...
REED: ...let's say he gets...
THERRY: ...are we talking about satisfying the high sacred needs or are we talking about Joe Blow just having sex because he wants to...
REED: Joe Blow just having sex because he wants to...
REED: Now, in doing so, he gets his girlfriend pregnant...
REED: ...and he decides, "Okay, well then, I've gotten her pregnant and I will accept the responsibility, I'm not going run out on her."
REED: And he marries her...
REED: ...assuming that they already love each, it wasn't just a one-night stand type of thing.
THERRY: Okay, now what?
THERRY: What's the purpose?
REED: At this point, the purpose becomes to keep bringing in this kid, to teach him...I mean assuming it does, depending on Joe Schmoe's point of view...
THERRY: I don't understand...
REED: I'm wondering...
THERRY:... the purpose for the conversation itself.
REED: Well, I'm wondering if Joe Schmoe takes that attitude
THERRY: It doesn't...
REED: ...and he truly raises...marries the girl, raises the kid well...
THERRY: Give me the purpose of the conversation itself which you're having.
REED: To answer a question.
THERRY: What question?
REED: Is Joe Blow at that point meeting the higher spiritual needs?
REED: Why not?
THERRY: There is never, never, never a set of circumstances where the higher psychological, the higher sacred needs can be met through indiscriminate sex. Indiscriminate sex is a "catch as catch can" type of thing...Here you're talking about just one individual. But you can not guarantee that every member of the society will honor their responsibilities. If you look at the outside world, most people do not honor their responsibilities when they have indiscriminate sex.
REED: What does that mean?
THERRY: You do it when you can...If you can get away with it, you do it. There's no way you can meet the high sacred laws under those conditions. The high sacred laws is something that two people get together knowing ahead of time what they're doing and why and they plan for it, they prepare for it. Their sole purpose is to meet those laws, the sacredness, the beauty of marriage. It's the union of two partners for the express purpose of divinity. That cannot occur on a fly-by-night, whore-type situation. When two people are set about for the express purpose of satisfying the high sacred needs of matrimony, that is something that you plan. You're very discriminate, you're extremely careful of who your partners is, how etc.
REED: Okay, I've got a question.
THERRY: Indiscriminate sex is simply a flesh thing...
REED: Okay, I...
THERRY: The high sacred needs has nothing to do with flesh...
THERRY: ...it's just an extra benefit.
REED: We said that when a couple is married, and they've either had a kid or two, or they're not yet ready to have a kid, but they plan to in the future and obviously, they have sex...
THERRY: In short, what I'm telling you...
REED: ...to take care of their needs.
THERRY: What I'm telling you is, in Arkashea, people are still going to be human and therefore they're going to have certain needs. But because of the overall training, they're not specifically going to get married just for the sake of satisfying the flesh needs. Training from the beginning will be an introduction for the sacred, high reasons for marriage...
REED: Okay, can I ask a question not dealing with Arkashea but just dealing with people?
REED: If a couple gets married to meet the high spiritual needs of bringing in a channel into the world, that is their purpose, right?
THERRY: Go ahead.
REED: They get married and aside from meeting...
THERRY: Go ahead...
REED: ...and they screw sometimes just to meet each other's physical needs...
REED: ...that's alright, you said before.
REED: So, what's a single person supposed to do about his physical needs? He's still got 'em just like the married person does.
THERRY: Yeah, but he can be trained to control them. See, you're speaking about an inherent problem that exists in mankind and you're speaking about a system of training. Now if you teach children from the very beginning that indiscriminate sex is okay, they're going to form a habit that requires sex. You're going to teach their bodies to require sex, specifically, human-to-human contact. That doesn't come naturally. That has to be taught. You can teach children that there is a way to deal with those urges and still remain psychologically and sociologically and physically healthy. Remember, the biggest teacher for children is by example. They will do what the parents do. If the parents are decadent, so too will be the children.
REED: Such as?
THERRY: You know. You know that children being children, they're going to get hard-ons, if they're males. They're going to get excited, such as different other...display different other forms of the female.
THERRY: Well, if you don't make those behaviors taboos, the child ...and if you explain that to the child and you explain that that is something that they've got to control at their own pace, at their own time, but definitely control, because it is part of their humanity - well, psychologically, they can come out pretty good. On the other hand, if you teach them that's taboo, you crucify them psychologically and socially.
REED: Uhm, I can understand that.
THERRY: And obviously, if you teach them along those lines, then every time they get a hard-on, they're not going to have in their minds, "I've got to get me a woman, I've got to get me a woman," twenty-four hours a day, the way these kids are.
THERRY: 'Cuz they're not going to think of women as another conquest. That's what's wrong with today's society.
REED: Uh-hmm. Okay, if a kid's got these urges and you tell him he's got to control it, his body's going to tell him, I don't want to control it.
THERRY: That's not true either. The body will listen to what the mind tells it, according to the way it's been trained. Mother Nature will take care of it through wet dreams and different things like that.
REED: So what do we do with those of us who've already been corrupted for twenty years?
THERRY: There's an old saying that says, "I'm sorry!"
THERRY: For those people, they have to find some acceptable way of taking care of it. Some people can't close their hands, 'cuz there's too much air accruing there.
REED: Too much what?
THERRY: It's an old joke. The joke being that, if you masturbate, air blows in your hands. You introduce yourself to Mary Palm and her five sisters.
REED: I see futures...future generations of Arkasheans listening.
THERRY: Hide me, Mary!
REED: ...listening to these tapes.
THERRY: These tapes, yeah.
REED: Wisdom from the past.
THERRY: [Laugh] Does that answer your questions in any case, in terms of the purpose of the original conversation, how do you govern laws?
REED: I think so.
THERRY: Okay, so that takes care of that.