Arkashean Q&A Session -- 112

SHELBY: Where did that come from?

THERRY: Where did what come from?

SHELBY: That First Thought?

THERRY: From the seed pattern of law. Remember, the "Creation of the One is in itself the implication of the Creation of the other." So if you start out with nothing, that law says that you have to have the opposite of that, which means something.

SHELBY: Something...

THERRY: Likewise, if you started out with not having the ability to think, then it would have to end up with you having the ability to think.

SHELBY: So we didn't choose to have that? It just...

THERRY: You didn't choose to think. Law gave you that ability. But after that, once you gained your Freewill, then it was up to you and the rest was all your own fault.

LUCY: So we could've...

SHELBY: Right.

THERRY: The law gave you the ability to choose, whichever path you chose and you ended up here on Earth. Ta-dah!!!

SHELBY: Why then...?

LUCY: We could've made a better decision then?

THERRY: You could have...

SHELBY: Why...?

LUCY: Because we would've gotten...

THERRY: But that's a moot...that's a moot statement.

LUCY: [Chuckle] Yeah, I know.

SHELBY: That was what we were wondering, why would we do this to ourselves?

LUCY: Yes, that's the whole thing, because I think we imagined such a state of purity and perfection and love.

SHELBY: If we...

LUCY: ...if you are aware of that kind of feeling, why would you want to go away from that?

THERRY: Why would Sammy want to pull down something that would fall on him?

LUCY: Because he is not aware that it would fall down on him.

THERRY: Possibly that could be a reason.

SHELBY: Or he's not aware that it would hurt him if that happens.

THERRY: Possibly, that's a good reason.

SHELBY: But at that level, aren't we aware of the consequences?

THERRY: Creation didn't exist as it exists down here on the lower levels. The way it exists here. There were no obstructions up there in the singularity. All of these obstructions didn't exist up there. All of these physical bodies, the mental bodies, none of that existed up there. It was pure thought, pure energy. None of that was in existence up there in the singularity.

SHELBY: So the concept of being in pain didn't mean anything?

THERRY: Didn't exist up there. You didn't discover pain until after you gained your Individuality and began the descent.

SHELBY: So there was no reason for us to be afraid to do what we did then? We didn't understand the consequences or something?

THERRY: Well, it's not a case that you didn't understand 'cause you did because up on that high level, you knew all things.

SHELBY: But we didn't ...I mean we understood, okay, we're going to go up...

THERRY: No, no, no, if you remember...Wait a minute now, if you remember, if you want to understand this, you also have to bring the "What, If, But..." into it because the "What, If, But" is what explains your specific questions. Specifically the part that says we can create laws which will prevent us from falling out of our creation when we're not thinking and hence the trap came into being. In short, you built castles in the sand, moved in and now the psychiatrist is going to collect the rent.

SHELBY: But we did that not thinking that we would want to get out. We did that thinking that we want to stay in there, we want to make sure we stay there.

THERRY: Exactly because "What, If, But" it says where is the validity of leaving the nest, so to speak. If you know that you can leave anytime, nothing is real. There was no value to it. For instance...

KATE: 'Cause you had the Freedom to go?

THERRY: No, for instance...

LUCY: Yeah, if you know it's fake...

THERRY: "Here, this is a billion dollars!" "Here, alright." "Give me the billion dollars." See? There's no value there.


THERRY: But if this was a real billion dollars, you wouldn't have given that to me.


THERRY: Not until it had a value to you, did ...

SHELBY: That's how I can understand that you want to make things just so it's not like just a piece of paper that you're pretending it's a billion dollars.

THERRY: Exactly. But you have to think on that level up there too.

SHELBY: But we didn't...

THERRY: Reality didn't exist. It was just a pretend.

SHELBY: So we didn't think that we would be unhappy in that state?

THERRY: The term unhappiness didn't even exist.

LUCY: Didn't exist because of the emotions...?

THERRY: Unhappiness came about because of bemusement.

SHELBY: So we didn't know what we were getting ourselves into?

THERRY: Yes, you did. You did.

SHELBY: But we didn't know that we would be unhappy.

THERRY: Yes, you did. You created. Remember, the "What, If, But."

SHELBY: [Chuckle]

THERRY: You created sets of laws and purposefully refused to address other sets of laws because you did not want to know everything. Because if you knew everything the way you know it now, then nothing had any meaning to it. You purposefully created situations whereby you did not know what was going to happen and you could not stop it. Because if you could stop it anytime you wanted to, then it has no value. So it's all your own creation.

SHELBY: No, I guess I'm not asking ...phrasing it the right way like I'm asking it. It was almost like when we were planning all this, it was almost like a game. It was the horror of it, we didn't realize.

THERRY: Because it didn't exist, we created the horror. The same way as an individual goes to a circus and goes to these roller coasters. He goes there because he loves the fun, the thrill of the horror of it.


THERRY: So he creates it. So if you create the situation so you can have that, then how can you say that you didn't know ahead of time that it would be like that?

SHELBY: No, no, it's like, if we plan, say "Hey, let's make a physical body and then let's hack that arm off that physical body. That sounds like something fun to do!" And so we do it...

LUCY: [Giggle]

SHELBY: But when we do it, being in the process of having it done, is like this awful thing...

THERRY: No, no, no.

SHELBY: ...That you didn't feel when you were planning it.

THERRY: That's not true, you addressed that because, if you remember, "What, If, But" says, but what is the value of any experience that is not real, that you can get out of it, you can stop it at any time you wanted to. Remember that statement?


THERRY: And therefore, you knew ahead of time what you were doing when you created a situation that you couldn't get out.

SHELBY: But did you know you weren't going to like it? You know...

THERRY: Of course because the whole idea of setting limits that is out of your control is to make sure that you couldn't stop it when you wanted it to.

LUCY: Because you wanted to experience that?

THERRY: Right, because where's the value if you could stop it any time you want to?

SHELBY: Well, you can create that situation without it necessarily being something you're not going to like!

THERRY: And where's the value to it because then it wouldn't have any value to you. It's like that piece of paper that we said was a billion dollars. It had no value. If you...if everything is absolutely in your control under all conditions, it has no value.

SHELBY: No, not in my control but that I enjoy it. I like it.

THERRY: That's not true because if you enjoyed it, you wouldn't have set any limits and you wouldn't have come down to begin with. The only reason why you go to a circus to get yourself scared is because you know that once you're there, that is not going to stop until it is over. And that's the draw that you've created. It's the same thing here. I mean if you could stop it any time you wanted, there's no value, there's no experience.

SHELBY: No, that part I understand. But...

THERRY: So therefore you know ahead of time that you have to create a situation that is not under your control.

SHELBY: That you would want to stop.

THERRY: Exactly.

SHELBY: Ahhhh!

LUCY: I understand. But my question is, why did we want to experience anything other than what we were in?

THERRY: I think we titled one of the chapters in your book that will answer that. "Just because you have a brain doesn't mean you're going to use it."

KATE: [Chuckle]

LUCY: I guess I'm looking at this state as such perfection.

THERRY: What state?

LUCY: Deluge.

THERRY: Yeah it was.

LUCY: Then why tamper with perfection?

THERRY: You knew all things.

LUCY: So why tamper with that perfect state?

THERRY: That cannot be answered on this level because that deals with absurdity.

LUCY: Okay.

THERRY: And that belongs to the other path, The Path of the Absence.

SHELBY: That's what we were racking our brains about. Why would we do that to ourselves?

THERRY: That would belong to the Path of the Absence. The Path of Absurdity.

SHELBY: But we knew full well what we were getting into? It wasn't like...

THERRY: Of course you knew full well. From Deluge...from Deluge you had the Sea of Uncreated Futures. You knew absolutely everything that could possibly occur. You very specifically set about creating conditions whereby you were befuddled and bemused.

SHELBY: We knew we wouldn't like it. We deliberately planned it so we wouldn't like it.

THERRY: You deliberately planned so that you couldn't stop it, otherwise there'd be no value to it.

LUCY: Did we at least feel that experiencing this stuff least on that level, did we feel that the experiencing of this stuff would be a positive thing?

THERRY: Well, understand that, from that level, you understand that Death does not exist. It doesn't matter what Illusion you go through. That's all it is - an Illusion. Then eventually, given enough time, you're going to be right back where you started anyway. Therefore it doesn't really matter what it is that you go through. You just go through one Illusion to another - we call it Reincarnation - until finally you find the built-in windows which were created. And those built-in windows will finally give you back the law. You will then remember, you'll grow and you'll be free.

SHELBY: So there's no purpose for it really?

THERRY: Well, it's a good circus.

SHELBY: It's just like out of boredom? Just something to do.

THERRY: No, you can't say it was boredom because boredom didn't exist.

DONNA: The laws of constant change, was that connected with Deluge? So are we just fulfilling change?


DONNA: And then this whole thing starts over again?


SHELBY: What was that again? The laws of constant change were part of that state of Deluge?

THERRY: Remember the recursiveness. It goes back and takes control over its Creator. So Change is the first of all the Royal Steering Currents. So that which created Change is now controlled by Change and Change is the only thing of all Creation that can not be changed 'cause its immune from itself.

LUCY: So it's incorrect to think of eventually evolving to a place because we stay because after we get there, we're going to start it all over again?

THERRY: Not necessarily so.

LUCY: But wouldn't it still...?

THERRY: But it is a possibility.

LUCY: But we wouldn't have to do that again?

THERRY: No, you wouldn't have to. Again, you're speaking about a span of time if time be the word to be used, that is so vast that it makes a mockery of all existence.

LUCY: Yeah.

PATRICK: If you were originally in a state of Deluge and you decide to start to play this game and drop down and start to do this...You're still aware however that you were here?

THERRY: Yes. It's...

PATRICK: Just before you descended?

THERRY: It's not until that you leave Orthodontiks that you begin losing. The barriers drop.

PATRICK: Once you've decided to come down and start to play the game and just come down one level from Deluge...

THERRY: There's no such time.

PATRICK: Okay. Give me vocabulary then.

THERRY: It's like you stepping on what you think is a very solid step.

SHELBY: Step by step as we move along?

THERRY: No, they were made in the beginning.

SHELBY: So there's no...So, once we took that first step there was nothing, "Okay, enough of this?"

THERRY: Once you had...

SHELBY: "Let's go back now."

THERRY: Once you had the ...Once you had the First Thought and you tried to go back, you couldn't. The law stopped you. Remember the law, "The Force which is created to create a phenomenon is the very same force which maintains that phenomenon."

DONNA: Has this happened before?

THERRY: Again, you're talking about a stretch of time that is so vast that it mocks creation itself so, so there's really no...from this low perch, if you will, there's no answer to your question.

SHELBY: But when we get right back there, are we likely to start the whole thing again?

THERRY: Well, let me ask...let me be absurd for a minute, okay. 'Cause that will answer your answer far better. If we get off a very scary, roller coaster ride that we really enjoy, are we most likely to get back on again?

SHELBY: That's because we enjoy it. We all enjoy it. That's all a part of taking it for a ride. Never again. We forget how awful it was while we were on the roller coaster?

THERRY: No, you remember it all. That's the fun of it.

SHELBY: 'Cause when that...

THERRY: Don't you remember...put you on a roller coaster. You've been on one, right?

SHELBY: Yeah, a lot of them. [Chuckle]

THERRY: Look at how much you scream and scream! And then when you get off, you say, "Hey that was fun! Let's get back on." It's the same thing.

LUCY: 'Cause we don't view it?

THERRY: It's the same pattern. It's a repeated pattern.

LUCY: Because from that level we don't view it. If you're looking at it she's trying to view from that level but the pain she feels...

THERRY: From this limits...

LUCY: Yes.

THERRY: She's trying to think how it would be from that level, using the limitations of the language on this level. It's absurd.

SHELBY: I wouldn't have the same pain on that level.

THERRY: It doesn't exist.

SHELBY: Would I have the memory of it? Would I remember that I didn't like that and I really don't want to do that again?

THERRY: No, it's the same way as when you get off the roller coaster ride. Did you have the memory of the screaming and stuff?


THERRY: Yeah? But it was fun, wasn't it? So you decided to go back out again. Why? You had all the memory of it.

SHELBY: I guess that's a bad example because I like roller coasters. If it was something I didn't like...

THERRY: But it doesn't. No, you don't like it while the rides happening, otherwise you wouldn't be screaming and...

SHELBY: No, I do. I like it when it's happening, I like it like that.


SHELBY: I was in a burning house once. I don't have any desire at all to go into a burning house again.


SHELBY: I mean that was a shadow and thrill and I was like a nervous wreck and everything.

LUCY: [Giggle]


SHELBY: The same kind of drama involved but I wouldn't want to do that again.


SHELBY: You know, so if you pick something like that that I don't like, I don't think I'd be ready to do that again.

THERRY: But there are many people who go on rides because they like to be scared. They like it. They play with danger. Even though they're perfectly safe and they think and are pretty well sure they're perfectly safe. Nonetheless, it's close enough to danger that they like it.

SHELBY: Oh, I definitely don't like that. I've heard stories in meetings and...

THERRY: But yet you know during the process when you're scared and all that. You still have the memory of it. So why do you want to go back and get some more?

SHELBY: Right.