Arkashean Q&A Session -- 014
EMELLE: Well, I basically went to war all week, which you probably already know.
EMELLE: But it bothers me.
THERRY: I don't see why; nothing new.
EMELLE: Well, that's true, except usually I guess I decide about whether it's right or it's wrong, and I do it one way or another.
THERRY: That's just part of your learning curve; I mean, you've done that ever since I've known you.
EMELLE: Yea, but I don't want to not wear purple. But, if I did wear purple, would you still be my teacher?
EMELLE: Would you still teach me math?
EMELLE: Well, I was afraid you wouldn't talk to me anymore.
THERRY: Why? If you want to insult the processes, that's between you and the Universes, got nothing to do with me.
EMELLE: Well, because you're always right, I figured you might be right on this. But I can't really see it for myself. I mean intellectually I can understand what you said; emotionally, it doesn't really feel like anything to me one way or another.
THERRY: I can understand that; you've never held anything sacred in your life, why should you begin now?
EMELLE: Well, I didn't wear purple all week, but I was at war about it because I wanted to do it, and--
THERRY: You might as well have worn it.
EMELLE: Well, that's what I wondered, because--
THERRY: To do the right things for the wrong reasons is the same as doing the wrong things for the right reasons.
EMELLE: That's what I figured. So, did I just fall from peripheral to distant because I had a bad attitude, or was I distant before then? I just didn't notice it because I had different refer--I had--I didn't have clear common denominators?
THERRY: Yes you did... you just don't like limitations.
EMELLE: Well, is it really--if you want to do something anyway, but you don't because someone tells you that it's wrong, is that better than not doing it at all?
THERRY: Well, let's see if we can look at that in different levels. Say you want to murder somebody, but somebody tells you no, don't go murder somebody because it's wrong. Isn't that a whole lot better then if you went out and murdered them?
EMELLE: Yes, but isn't that different?
THERRY: Does it matter if it is a murder, or if it is a simple thing like wearing purple? Aren't they both exactly the same?
EMELLE: No, one thing's hurting somebody else; the other thing's not.
THERRY: You mean, you ain't somebody?
EMELLE: Yea, okay, I'm somebody.
THERRY: So then it doesn't matter if you end up being hurt somehow?
EMELLE: Yea, it does matter.
THERRY: Then what is the difference between them? Somebody's going to get hurt in both cases.
EMELLE: Well, if I've worn it all this time, does that mean I've been hurting myself every time I've worn it?
THERRY: Yes.. Remember that Arkashea asks nothing of you except that you do not wear the color purple... because that color is reserved for pharaoh, and for 'High Spirituality'.
EMELLE: And, yet I've never noticed that. Does being hurt, when you say that, does that mean what, being limited?
THERRY: I think you've noticed it. You've just refused to accept it as the reason for being hurt. How often have you been talking about how your power is not steady?
EMELLE: Yea, that's true.
THERRY: What do you want the Universe to do, write it in great big black letters in the sky for you to read? Wear purple and we'll diminish your powers?
EMELLE: So, when I wear it they're diminished, and when I don't it comes stronger?
THERRY: Depending on how it's done, yea.
EMELLE: I mean, I know my power was diminished this week because I was totally at war with everything. I mean, so that seemed even more ridiculous; I mean, I was more grounded this week then I've ever been wearing purple. And I knew it was because I was at war.
THERRY: Just think of the fun you had.
EMELLE: It wasn't fun, but I couldn't seem to stop it. I knew it was my priorities, but I knew I was also attached to not liking limits, and to wanting what I want.
THERRY: So your dad's teachings are really strong, ain't they?
EMELLE: They are. Okay, I'll have to say yes, and they're not as strong when I can really see for myself exactly what's going on, because then I'm more willing to change. I say that, but I haven't been comfortable wearing the stuff that's purple either at this point. But then I also started wondering a couple different things which was why sacrifice anything for spirituality, because I'd really never questioned that before.
THERRY: That's something you have to decide for yourself.
EMELLE: Well, that's true, but I'm not sure where to get any answers. What I did was I bought two books, one on mysticism and one on religions of the world. The mysticism had one thing in it that might have been an answer, and it said, it was a chapter on mysticism and magic, and it said that that when you give something up for an idea, it makes the idea stronger. Is that true?
THERRY: In some cases, yea.
EMELLE: Well, is that why Arkasheans give things up?
EMELLE: No? Because I thought that made sense, but then I thought well, if I did it with the reference point then that's not respecting Pharaoh's office; that's doing it for a totally different reason. So I wasn't sure that that was the right thing to do either. But it said that that's where religion's things come from, and it also said that it was the training of the will. That's what it is? Can you answer in language for the tape instead of in my mind?
THERRY: That is one of the big big big big reasons. You have to bear in mind that illusions are the driving force for reality, therefore what you hold in your heart and what you hold in your mind is going to control what exists in reality for you on all levels. If you can't control your illusions, much less how are you going to control your reality? Especially on other levels where thought is the creator. It's a case of who's going to control you, your thoughts, or your emotions?
EMELLE: Well I know I let my emotions win an awful lot of the time when I have these struggles.
THERRY: Ninety-nine percent of the time.
EMELLE: Because for the first time I noticed the pattern that--
THERRY: It's a good beginning.
EMELLE: That I have a struggle between I guess what's logic, or what I think I should do, although in this case I don't really--I do intellectually understand the thing of respect as I did say before, but it was a struggle between two parts of myself and it felt like emotions versus something else; I guess logic would be the other label. And I remembered these feelings when it was a woman that I wasn't supposed to see, and of course I saw her, and when I was supposedly being trained not to be gay, and I decided to be gay. And I'm sure I've limited myself every time I've done it. But I guess it felt better to have ended every time I've done it too. But, you know, I mean, I guess in the long term if I could see more things, I'd see more of what it limited me from, but I can't right now.
THERRY: Plus there's one more thing that you haven't thought of. Each time you gave in, it made it that much easier to continue giving in. And much harder to fight it off.
EMELLE: That's probably true. I guess that's what you talk about when you talk about the first step, because the one place I haven't done that, is I have never brought somebody out, that I know of; and I'm always very careful to ask them a lot of questions, even if it seems nosey; and it's never been easy for me to do it, as if I haven't done it, and I don't really have that struggle because I guess it's always been just no; not maybe, not anything else. And it doesn't really bother me, even when I really like someone.
THERRY: Therefore you know the difference.
EMELLE: You mean I know the difference between--
THERRY: Saying no, as opposed to maybe.
EMELLE: Yea, well I've said no to drugs, and I guess it doesn't tempt me anymore, but I also knew it was a good thing to get rid of them, even though sometimes I'm tempted to run away from pain-
THERRY: It doesn't change the fact that when it's things that you particularly want, you don't say no, you always say maybe, which always ends up yes. Every time you attempt to say no, you always get into what if, what if, what if this, what if that. Or what--is it the same in this set of circumstances, is it the same in that set--everything to try to get around it until finally it's maybe, yes, of course. That way I can end the war.
EMELLE: I noticed I did that this time too. But I recognized that I did it, so I decided that was a stupid thing to do because if I wanted to do it I should just be honest and do it.
THERRY: I agree.
EMELLE: And then I didn't do it because, because I was going to wait and see how I felt about it. And I guess as time goes on the emotions have left, although it's still started me on the question. What I started off using as a rationalization ended up being a question that I really had never asked before which was why do people do these things; why have I done `em? I mean I've always done them without really asking myself.
THERRY: Remember, that in order to be totally honest, that question is a double-edged.
EMELLE: How so? Because I could use it as a rationalization?
THERRY: No. If you ask the question, why should people give things up for spirituality, if you want to be totally honest you must also ask, why shouldn't they give it up for spirituality. Remember the law, "All which exists within the Chi must be dual in its nature and triune in its effects." So, if you ask for one side, such as why should you, you must also ask why shouldn't you, and you must seek the answer to both of them honestly.
EMELLE: That's a good point; I wouldn't have thought of that. That is a good point. So far that sentence in that book was the only thing that I've seen. It said that will-let's see if I can remember exactly what it said--it said that a slovenly will was mans worst enemy.
THERRY: Yes. All that is saying is an individual who cannot say no because they're stuck with maybes, that's the biggest enemy they have, because the war is between the two sides of an individual. Again it gets back to the law: "That which exists in within the Chi must be dual...." In this particular case the duality is it's either going to be wisdom that rules, or it's going to be emotions that rule, and the battle is between them at all times. Every time that you say maybe, you give rein to the emotions.
EMELLE: I've realized how attached I am still to my possessions.
THERRY: It's a beginning.
EMELLE: And that they give me a great deal of security.
THERRY: It's a beginning. I think you'll discover you are in error, though. Cause they don't give you security; they give you the illusion of security.
EMELLE: You're right; that's more accurate. Because I was thinking the other day, when I thought that, that that's not really true, but it still felt emotionally like it was true.
THERRY: Um-hum. That's the illusionary aspects of it. The only thing that can really truly give you security is wisdom.
EMELLE: So, Arkasheans, when we give up things, even if I was calling myself a distant Arkashean, is it still right to say we?
EMELLE: When we give up things, and when the Cloister people give up things, it's all to train their will?
EMELLE: For other levels?
EMELLE: Now, how come that works?
THERRY: Because of various laws that deal with barriers.
EMELLE: Can you give an example?
THERRY: "What is loosed into the illusion shall be loosed into reality."
EMELLE: So how does giving up something you like apply to that law?
THERRY: Well, it's a case of applying levels of value to various things. Value is one of the ways that humans attach sacredness to things. That which is held sacred, you just don't play with it; you just don't fool with it at all. That which is relatively valueless you play with a lot; you trade off. Case in point: let's say you met this absolutely beautiful lady. I mean, that lady was everything you ever wanted. And somebody came up to you and said, okay, I'll make it possible for you to have that lady, but you have to pay me. And you say, okay, what is it that you want? Give me your soul. Would you trade?
EMELLE: Because it's not worth the price.
THERRY: Why? Is your soul more sacred then that lady is?
THERRY: Look at all the fun you could have with her.
EMELLE: Doesn't matter.
THERRY: So, it's a case of sacredness, isn't it.
EMELLE: Is that the feeling of sacredness?
THERRY: Um-hum. Something that you just do not play with; you do not harm in any way, you do not put in harm's way in any form. Cast not pearls before swines. What if this lady wanted to come up to you, and started playing with you, rubbing herself all over you, and wanting to kiss you, and wanting to spend time with you, what would you do?
EMELLE: Well, if she did it of her own free-will, then I guess there's nothing wrong with it, but if it's--
THERRY: Uh-uh. The price was in order for you to have her, you have to pay me the price.
EMELLE: That applies across the board? So she doesn't have any free-will?
THERRY: Of course not. There's no such thing as free-will on earth; it's all an illusion. Doesn't matter what she chooses to do, the point is if you are going to have her, either way, in any form, you must pay me that price.
EMELLE: Then I'd get up and leave the room.
THERRY: Now, while it don't seem apparent, that's the way you should think in all things. That it doesn't matter if somebody else does something, within their free-will, or without of their free-will; it doesn't change the fact that the minute you get involved, you have to pay a price for it. Doesn't matter if it is that lady, or if it is a washing machine, or if it is wearing purple, or if it is ah, bringing somebody out; it doesn't matter what it is. One hundred percent of everything that you end up getting you have to pay a price for. That's where your trade-off comes in. Are you holding it sacred, or is it just something to satisfy your emotions? Maybe the something is just feminine power. But you still have to pay a price for it. So, if these feminists comes around, they do the same things. They say, well, we'll do this, and we'll do that, and we'll have all of this stuff; we'll succeed, we'll gain what we want; laws will be passed. There's no difference between that as opposed to having that nice lady play with you. They're still going to have to pay the price.
EMELLE: That's true. The prices come in different forms and are on different levels.
THERRY: Yes. But it is a price nonetheless. Nothing is free!
EMELLE: Yep. The other part of the sentence besides strengthening the will was it said it separates you from reality, from the material world.
THERRY: Holding it sacred.
EMELLE: Holding it sacred? What do you mean?
THERRY: They're talking about holding things sacred; things that are sacred are not mundane; that separates it.
EMELLE: Okay, but separating yourself from the material world?
THERRY: Where IT is concerned.
EMELLE: So, like giving something up that you like, which part is sacred? The thing--I don't understand.
THERRY: That part of you that belongs to that sacrifice is separated from the mundane.
EMELLE: But you should only do it if you can do it with love in your heart, right?
EMELLE: What if you can't? Will doing the right things for the wrong reasons eventually help you figure out to do them for the right reasons?
THERRY: Maybe with time. It all depends on if you insist on going to war. So long as that war exists, no, it won't. And it won't begin to until after the war's over.
EMELLE: Sometimes with me, the war doesn't end until after I do what my emotions want.
THERRY: That's the way it is. Then it's too late.
EMELLE: Well, is it too late if you realize it, and then change?
THERRY: Well, let's say the deed now is murder.
THERRY: Once you have already pulled the trigger--
EMELLE: --in that pattern it's--
THERRY: No, all of it is the same. Can you ever ever take back something you've already done?
EMELLE: No, okay, but if I wore purple for the next year, and for some reason at some point figured out why you're really not supposed to wear it, and could give it up without being mad about it, and just never put it on again, then--
THERRY: Will you be able to get back what you lost because of wearing it?
THERRY: Need I say more? Nothing is for free!
EMELLE: And if I didn't wear it, but I was mad about it, then I'd still lose what I would have lost if I wore it, right?
THERRY: Not necessarily, no.
THERRY: No. What you--the Karma that you'd accrue would be something else other than the wearing of the shades. Obviously if the law states don't grab hold to electricity, `cause if you do, you're going to get killed, well you can sit there and go at war and be angry for twenty years, but you still won't be killed until you touch that electricity.
EMELLE: That's true.
THERRY: You still pay a price, but it's a different price.
EMELLE: I noticed when I had the shirt on that it felt like stuff got softer, so I guess means less, and when I took it off, I only wore it for ten minutes, I took it off, and after a couple of hours it got stronger, so I guess that's how it works. That probably was how it worked when I just didn't notice it all this time.
EMELLE: And you said that emotions distort and deceive.
THERRY: Yes, why?
EMELLE: Because they're part of the unholy path?
THERRY: As part of the unholy path, or as part of their distortion, what do they do?
EMELLE: Well I know what you've taught me about emotions is that they amplify and distort--
EMELLE: That's their nature.
EMELLE: So, when you say, what do they do, that is what they do.
THERRY: Okay, what does that do to you?
EMELLE: Means that when I'm emotional, I'm making decisions on inaccurate information.
THERRY: Such as?
EMELLE: Well, wearing purple.
EMELLE: I can feel that I'm at war every time I think of not doing it, so I decide to do it. So, I don't wear it for a while, but I've decided to, so that I know that I can, and there's no war there, then when I wear it I feel funny; you said that that's a shield, which I don't understand really, because I guess I thought it just meant that I was going to a lower level, and that I'd just stay there.
THERRY: Let's back up. Let's look at that whole scenario from a different point of view. You know that Arkasheans, and those who are in touch truly one with the Universe look at all things in successive levels. Is that correct?
THERRY: Therefore, based with that analogy, if you saw on the highest level that absolutely everything is reduced to just two paths; the Holy path which leads you away from Earth, and the Unholy path which leads you into Earth. And if that's all that exists is just those two paths, would it also be fair to say, and would it also be accurate to say that regardless of the levels that you're on below that, everything still will end up being a fight between those two paths?
EMELLE: You could say that if that was your first assumption was everything's one or the other of those two paths, yes.
THERRY: Okay, now, would it also be fair to assume that those who are on the Unholy path will try to emulate those who are on the Holy path? Nobody wants to be rejected.
THERRY: Therefore, would that also be attributed to your thoughts, and your emotions, and your excuses, and your rationalizations, and everything else?
THERRY: Okay. If emotions are said to be amplifiers and therefore deceivers or distorters, what path are they on?
EMELLE: I guess the path that leads--the Unholy path.
THERRY: Okay. Does an individual like the idea of being labeled as an Unholy person?
THERRY: So what are they going to do?
EMELLE: Label themselves a Holy person?
THERRY: Isn't that part of what the emotions do? They deceive, they distort?
THERRY: What is a very good way of taking the spotlight, or the hot seat, if you will, off you?
EMELLE: Put it on somebody else?
THERRY: Bingo. Therefore wouldn't one of the emotion's prime tools be to blame it on something or somebody else?
THERRY: So if you were dealing with something; let's say the color purple. Rather than realize that it is your emotions you are fighting, wouldn't it be easier to blame it on something else, say, politics?
THERRY: Therefore, you fight a war with politics which is a war you can never win because your real enemy is emotions, but you never see it. It never goes on the battlefield. You're fighting illusions.
EMELLE: Why would my emotions be so attached to a color? When I was fighting--
THERRY: Not true... They are not attached to a color, they are attached to limits. Does it matter?
EMELLE: Yes and no. No because it doesn't matter because they're fighting, but yes, because sometimes when I understand where it comes from, I can control it better and stop the war.
THERRY: Seems to me that if you want to fight an enemy, you'd have to recognize your enemy. And if your enemy is constantly throwing illusions at you to disguise itself, seems to me the wise individual will no longer pay attention to the illusions that are thrown at you. In which case the question why am I so attached to let's say, purple, shouldn't matter; it's just one more illusions. Seems to me that there's only one viable question: Why are my emotions so involved?
THERRY: It doesn't matter why you're involved with purple, because it's an illusion anyway.
EMELLE: So why are my emotions so involved?
THERRY: Obviously the emotions is the enemy; everything else is only a red herring to bring your mind away from the battlefield so that you can never really assail your emotions; they're protected. They're free to do what they want by having you fight useless battles which can never be won. You can't even touch politics, nor can you touch religion; those are illusions which cannot be fought.
EMELLE: Well then how do you fight your emotions? And why are my emotions so involved?
THERRY: You keep asking the question why is your emotions so involved. Does that really matter why?
EMELLE: Well how do you stop them if you don't know why they're involved? I can see about the purple being a red herring, but if you acknowledge your emotions as the enemy--
THERRY: But isn't it true that if you keep asking the question why are your emotions so involved, aren't you only going to bring forth one more red herring?
EMELLE: I thought that was the opponent, the emotions.
THERRY: The emotions are the opponent, not why the emotions are there. If you ask yourself why the emotions are there, well you did that once, and you said because of politics. Then you ask yourself again, why are the emotions involved? Isn't it true that the answer to that question is itself another red herring?
THERRY: When are you going to know, and how is it possible to know the real reason why, and, once you find it, does it really matter?
EMELLE: Maybe not. Another reason could be I don't like limits. That doesn't help me stop the emotions.
THERRY: I think you've come closer to the truth now then you have in all your other wars. But that's beside the point.
EMELLE: Well, I've told myself that--
THERRY: Okay let us say that you say it's because you don't like limits. Does that matter? Are you any closer to fighting the emotions themselves?
THERRY: Because they bring forth nothing but illusions. Illusions cannot be won. They're created as quickly as they fall; you can never defeat them. It's like trying to kill a dead man. They regenerate themselves; therefore, what if you took a new tack. Instead of fighting the red herrings, what if you adopted the attitude my emotions say this is so, therefore I will make it not so. And it didn't matter why; the fact that the emotions says yes, you say no, that's good enough. What would happen with time?
EMELLE: (Laugh) I'd get an ulcer.
THERRY: (Laugh) Yea, quite probably, but else would happen?
EMELLE: The emotions would lose power? I don't know, does that ever happen?
THERRY: Yes. It would take a long time depending on how strong your emotions have always been in control of you, but after a while logic would rule rather than the emotions. Take the monkey trial in, wherever it was. Didn't all of the emotions were on the side against logic?
THERRY: So the fact that the emotions were involved, if your in the habit of fighting the emotions rather than the red herring, you'd make sure that there was justice there regardless of what the emotions says.
EMELLE: Does that mean that everything I want I should say no because my emotions want it?
THERRY: Oh I don't think you'd have to become a fanatic; that would be rather stupid, wouldn't it? I want a drink of water. No! Obviously there are some things that you have to cow-tow to, if for nothing else then survival. The key here is not to decide what to war against, that's not our intention. We don't care which war you choose; that's your affair. We're trying to teach you who your real enemy is. And it is silly to fight every single war that comes along. Choose your wars. Hopefully you'll choose them wisely. But then that too is your affair, not ours.
EMELLE: How come when I'm denying myself something, something inside me feels lined up, it's like magnets are lined up. Why is that?
THERRY: Perhaps you line up your soldiers to get ready for war.
EMELLE: No it doesn't feel like that; what is it really?
THERRY: That's what it is. Resentment takes hold--resentment is the first to attack, the first one to stand at attention. Confusion is the next one, then anger is the next one, and then resentment shouts again, and it brings up all the others.
EMELLE: So it's my emotions, and it's negative ones at that?
THERRY: Yes. That's the legacy you got from your mother and your father's teachings. Remember, they have taught you the world is your oyster; you don't have to do anything; you can buy your way. And you finally began to believe that. That's one of the reasons why you became a hippie and a drug addict, because you refuse to accept truth and its way; you fought against it. You wanted your money and what it would bring, but at the same time you had no respect for it. You wanted to become one of the beautiful people. So you went into drugs, and the hippie movement, and the big choice of the sixties, all along feeling guilty because you had money. But you ended up going with your money every single time. Even while you were during that movement and said you were attached to it, you never did anything to endanger your money. You made damn sure to protect that.
EMELLE: Yea, that's true.
THERRY: At least you're more honest now then you used to be, so that's very good.
EMELLE: Yea, but what does it do if it doesn't change you?
THERRY: Well, we all follow the first law, each in our own way. You first have to know who you are before you can alter who you are. The problem is you've always looked at having money as though that was bad, and that's just not true; there's nothing wrong with having money.
EMELLE: Well, then what's the bad part about it?
THERRY: What you do once you have it. It is possible for a person to have money and still be a very decent human being. The problem is the majority of the people who have money aren't.
EMELLE: Because of the values we've discussed previously that you get when you have money.
THERRY: Yea, but you don't necessarily have to have--don't make the equation that money equals corruption because that's not necessarily true, even though it seems to be in many instances.
EMELLE: I guess one of the problems with me is that now that I'm more honest with myself, I'm afraid to see what I'll find.
THERRY: I don't see why you should be. You have to remember that you have to know who you are before you stand a chance to change who you are. It shouldn't matter what you find. If what you find you don't like, then at least you will be able to change it. That is, if you want to.
EMELLE: Most of the time I have two paths in me.
THERRY: So does everybody else. Remember everything, absolutely everything comes down to two paths. So it's not surprising you have two in you.
EMELLE: Is Wicken considered the Unholy path?
THERRY: It is part of the Arkashea past.
EMELLE: So then it's not part of the Unholy path?
THERRY: Not necessarily so. It is a joining point, if you will, a bridge from one path to another. From Wicken you choose which path you want to go. It's the same way with money. Money's not evil. Once you have it, now you choose which path you want to go. So, it's not the money that is good or bad, the same as it is not Wicken that is either good or bad. It's the individual's choices once they reach that point.
EMELLE: Yea, that's the other thing that I'm afraid of, is that I'll make the wrong decision.
THERRY: So what? You have to be who you have to be. Everybody follows the first law.
EMELLE: I've woken up every morning at like three in the morning fighting with myself.
THERRY: I suppose that's a good past time.
EMELLE: It's not a good past time.
THERRY: It must be; so many people do it.
EMELLE: And I go back and forth, purple, not purple, purple, not purple. Why should I do what anyone else says; why should I listen to anybody when it's something that I want to do. How will I ever change if I don't listen to somebody else besides myself.
THERRY: Why not just simply listen to your emotions? Either go for `em or go against them. That way you don't have to listen to anybody else; you can listen only to your self. Just think of how few the limitations you'll have. It'll be black and white; either it's yes or no; you'll either go with your emotions, or you'll deny them.
EMELLE: Yea, but I don't stick to it.
THERRY: Ah. Okay.
EMELLE: I make a decision, I get up, I live with it for a few days, I want to change my mind, and it starts all over again.
THERRY: Then perhaps it's because the change was really superficial. It wasn't a real change.
EMELLE: Yea, but then if I'm honest and say I want to wear purple, I want to do what I want to do, and I also want to study with Therry, because I love him as a teacher and what I've been learning, then when I wear purple and call myself a distant Arkashean, because at the time that was the label that you said could wear purple, then uh, then when I did--
THERRY: Seems to me you're fighting a lot of illusions. Just because purple happens to be Pharaoh's color doesn't change the fact that it's not really purple that you're fighting; again it seems to me that what you're really fighting was your own emotions; your wants versus your shoulds. Seems to me that your wants versus your shoulds is the battleground that your emotions have chosen to place themselves in.
EMELLE: Well, then if I decided I'm my wants, then I should have stuck to it and go on. But I don't; I feel guilty about it, and I go back and do the whole thing all over again, and then when I fall through on the decision, I don't necessarily like it.
THERRY: Yea. Perhaps it's because you've been taught the difference between right and wrong, so now there's no excuse for doing what you think is wrong, so perhaps what you really should do is first decide if it is truly wrong for you.
EMELLE: Well it's wrong because you say it is.
THERRY: No, that doesn't make it wrong.
EMELLE: Everything else you've ever said about my bad patterns I could see for myself so it was worth doing something about them; this, the only thing I could say is that you said it was wrong.
THERRY: No, you're not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to accept something just because me or somebody else said it. Me don't mean nothing. I'm only another individual who speaks the same as all the other individuals of your species. I don't make laws.
EMELLE: Well, when I put it on now, I feel funny, but I only feel funny because I've got five million emotions from three weeks; I mean I never felt funny when I put it on before.
THERRY: Therefore, would not your enemy still be emotions? You wanted to buy the wisdom that Arkashea has been guarding for centuries... We told you that you could have it if you held it sacred... and, as a sign of holding it sacred you must not wear the color purple... Now that you have some of that wisdom you have stopped paying the agreed upon price.
EMELLE: Yea. I guess for that matter, it's emotions when I'm at things like rituals, too.
EMELLE: I went there for two reasons. I went there `cause I wanted to. That's the first reason; I'm not going to say it's not. The second reason is it appealed to me `cause it didn't have the rules that you did, and I was trying to get away from your rules. And I was so fearful that lightning was going to come and strike me down literally, that I couldn't feel whether I felt anything about it or not.
THERRY: So perhaps what you really should do is to decide what is right and what is wrong for you. Everybody changes God's laws so that they can follow them.
EMELLE: Yea, but that's not right, is it?
THERRY: How did right get into this conversation? Quote to me what the first law is.
EMELLE: "Everyone will lie, cheat, steal, even murder to get what they think they need in any given situation."
THERRY: How does right enter that? Incidentally, the uh, the law doesn't say everybody will; says everyone has the opportunity to, `cause it doesn't necessarily mean that they will, because there are times when what they choose to do is right, and therefore they don't have to lie, cheat, and steal to do it. But in any case, how does right or wrong get into that? Simply is. When you bring in words like right and wrong, or good and bad, that only has reference to the path that you choose. You're either going into Maya, or you're going out of Maya. Which means, if you have to bring in right and wrong, seems to me that you're trying to disguise a path to make it palatable for you. Perhaps that's where you should put your attention to, a little honesty.
EMELLE: I decided last night, that, well, this week I was wondering when I called myself a distant Arkashean, it didn't really feel right because I feel closer to the teachings of Arkashea than distant. But I also wanted to wear purple, so I figured if I didn't want to do everything in it, then I had to call myself distant, so I was. But then it felt like, if I was calling myself distant, I guess I thought that distant people didn't follow the rules of Arkashea.
THERRY: Let's not say they don't follow it; let's just say that they follow their own rules far more.
EMELLE: And then last night I decided that I believe in the rules that I've learned here, except so far for the purple, but all the rest of the things I've learned here, and I wanted to follow them, and I wanted to live my lifestyle like that.
THERRY: You remember the conversation you had a while back with what's her name about doing something for the relationship as opposed to for yourself. Is that what you're fighting now?
EMELLE: How so?
THERRY: Well, what does it mean to do something for the relationship?
EMELLE: You want your relationship to be stronger, so you make a sacrifice for it, even if it's not something you want to do. Although if it's something you really don't want to do, then that's not going to work; you have to want to at some level.
THERRY: So you're talking about levels of trade-off for a specific purpose, right?
THERRY: But do you recognize it as a trade-off?
EMELLE: Well, with the relationship I do.
THERRY: If it is an unwilling trade-off, will it work?
THERRY: So, therefore it must be a willing trade-off, right?
THERRY: What does that mean?
EMELLE: Means you can't be at war with it in order for it to truly work, and serve the relationship.
THERRY: What does it mean to trade-off for the sake of a relationship?
EMELLE: It means you compromise, you give up--you either give up something that you want, or you do something that you maybe don't want to do as much as long as it's within a certain band of values to you to gain something from a relationship; to make the relationship stronger.
THERRY: What would happen if you said you did that, but in fact you begrudged it?
EMELLE: You'd end up in divorce courts sooner or later; you'd resent it.
THERRY: Now, let's take that pattern and superimpose it upon your particular war now, except instead of a relationship with the lady friend, let's say the relationship is with Arkashea. Has the rules changed?
THERRY: Is that what you're fighting?
THERRY: Oh, okay.
EMELLE: But is that an illusion based on my emotions? I mean, it's my emotions that are at war with it.
THERRY: But isn't it the emotions that's going to determine the validity of the trade-off?
EMELLE: Yes. But if that's true, what does that mean?
THERRY: What does what mean?
EMELLE: If it's true, if that's the same pattern, if I am not wanting to make the trade-off of purple, if I only really see it doing it because you said so as Pharaoh, which is why I was doing it in the first place--
THERRY: What brought the trade-off to begin with?
EMELLE: Depending on how altruistic you were, it easier to--
THERRY: No, no, no, no, go back, back, back, back. You're not answering my questions. What brought about the trade-off? Was it you, or was it Arkashea? What is the difference between Arkashea asking that you not wear the color purple... and you vowing to hold Arkashean wisdom sacred... Is there any difference?
EMELLE: No, there is no difference.
THERRY: So, now what?
EMELLE: Now I guess it depends on whether it's in your band of values or not to do what the other Arkashea asks.
THERRY: In other words, is it a valid trade-off?
EMELLE: Yea. That's--
THERRY: So, I suggest you battle with that for a while. You once said that you could never understand the concept of doing something for a relationship. Perhaps you have a better stage to play upon now.
EMELLE: Okay, so now I've got a question. `Cause I can see that; it's the same pattern. So when your emotions begrudge the trade-off, then what happens? Then you end up not in a good relationship.
THERRY: Exactly. The relationship breaks up, right? Cause and effect.
EMELLE: But is that saying if I wear purple, that the relationship is going to break up between me and Arkashea? That I would no longer be Arkashean in any sense of the word?
THERRY: When you refuse to make the trade-off for your lady friends, does that mean that you could no longer speak with your lady friends?
THERRY: What did it mean?
EMELLE: Depends on the person. With some people there's no change at all depending on what it is; with other people you may stop sleeping together and still be friends; with other people still, they may be totally mad at you and never speak to you again. Guess it depends on the personality of the other party that you're dealing with.
THERRY: I don't think that's valid. I think in some form the relationship has been affected. And eventually the relationship as it was will fall.
THERRY: If you knew that your lover didn't care enough for you to make a small trade, and as your relationship continued, that continued as well, would you stay with them?
THERRY: Doesn't that answer your own question?
EMELLE: Is it the same thing, though, with an organization?
EMELLE: Alright, so the fighting, so--
THERRY: The unwilling trade-offs. So you decided to go back to the way you were before you vowed to keep Arkashea's wisdom sacred... which meant you decided to make or a trade-off. Looks like your vows don't mean much to you when they stack against what you want.
THERRY: So what did you end up trading? Did you happen to lower your values in order to keep what you wanted? You give up your ideal of non-battle, non-war?
EMELLE: Is it lowering your standards when you see that the ideal's not the reality?
THERRY: I don't know; you have to decide that; it's your life. It's more important for you to understand what it is that you want out of life, and what you will accept out of life. I'll admit, and I will agree that some of the standards that you use are totally unreasonable, `cause they weren't realistic.
EMELLE: Isn't that what growing up is all about?
THERRY: Yes. Bringing things in alignment to reality. But not all alignments I view as really growth; some of them are sad to see. Others are good to see.
EMELLE: So this conversation seems to imply that if I am not willing to make the trade-off for the relationship, like not wearing purple for my relationship with Arkashea, then the relationship will fall apart.
THERRY: Yes and No it is not. It means that you will not get any more new wisdom... even though we will continue helping you understand what you already have.
EMELLE: Is that not?
THERRY: The relation--the conversation is about the fact that you have to know who you are before you can alter who you are. If you fight politics, and you fight limitations, and you fight illusions, or something else, when your real enemy is emotions, I don't see how you have a chance of winning. Seems to me the color purple, or the validity of some individual's philosophy, all of those are red herrings; they're props upon a stage of emotions for you to fight to get you distracted so that you can fight the props, rather then the enemy.
EMELLE: Well, if that's true, how do you ever make your mind up in how you feel about something? Or what you think about something, an issue?
THERRY: Perhaps you first have to find out what it is that's really involved. And perhaps you do that without taking into account your emotions. You make sure justice is there regardless of what you feel. And then, once you know justice is there for sure, then you have all the facts, then you can bring in your emotions and see how you feel.
EMELLE: How does that work when I'm trying to figure out how I feel about things that Arkashea has said? Or taught?
THERRY: Seems to me that the first step is to find out the validity of what has been said, independent of the emotions. We gave you a criteria on how to do that, did we not?
EMELLE: I don't remember it, if you did.
THERRY: I believe we once said that if we are correct, it is easy to prove.
EMELLE: To look at it in reality.
THERRY: Right. Does it exist? Is it a governing factor? Because we only give you laws. If it is not a governing factor, you won't find it in reality.
EMELLE: Well, then how do you test something like purple? I tested it by putting it on, and I felt funny, but I was so guilty about putting it on, I can't tell--
THERRY: Obviously that is not a law. That is a trade-off that is made for a situation, for a relationship; it's a barter system. We ask very little of people; we only ask one thing; they do not wear the color purple. That's all we ask. In exchange for that we'll give you everything we have, wisdom wise, knowledge wise. It's a pretty high price, you know? But it is enough to create a battlefield with all of its props.
EMELLE: So then this request of the purple thing is about the Monastery of Arkashea.
EMELLE: Not the state of Arkashea?
THERRY: Is there a Pharaoh in the state of Arkashea?
EMELLE: I don't think so.
THERRY: Therefore, how can it be other than the Monastery, since Pharaoh only exists on the Monastery level?
EMELLE: And yet you teach people that do wear purple.
THERRY: So what?
EMELLE: Then are there levels of Arkasheans? That do wear--
THERRY: What has that got to do? It doesn't change the fact that if people do wear it or not, it doesn't change the fact that we still ask that they do not wear purple.
EMELLE: If you don't wear purple, and you live far away, then are you still a peripheral Arkashean, even if you live far away, don't see the Monastery very much?
THERRY: Monastery's got nothing to do with you being Arkashean or not.
EMELLE: Well, wait a second; this thing about purple has to do with the Monastery, right?
THERRY: Yes, not the state.
EMELLE: And the thing about the distinctions when I tell someone what kind of Arkashean I am has to do with the Monastery, right?
THERRY: No, the state.
EMELLE: Well, then, I'm confused.
THERRY: You think it's possible for you to believe in some of the precepts of a philosophy, but not all of them?
THERRY: Therefore, if the philosophy involved was Christianity, could you call yourself Christian?
THERRY: But what about the fact that you believe in a lot of the stuff?
EMELLE: I don't.
THERRY: No, say you did.
EMELLE: Oh. I guess I'd call myself Christian anyway.
THERRY: But you wouldn't be, `cause you don't believe in all of it. If you were Christian, that would mean that you believe in all of it.
EMELLE: Well, according to Arkashean standards, that's true. In the outside world, that doesn't seem to be how they see it.
THERRY: You mean they change their language, right? Because by the definitions of the English language, if you are something, you are a full part of that something. You believe in all of it. You can't dig a half a hole, and you can't be a little bit pregnant; you either are, or you ain't.
EMELLE: Okay. So then you wouldn't be Christian if you didn't believe all of it.
THERRY: What about the fact that you believe in so much of it?
EMELLE: Well I don't know what you would do there? And Arkashea, you said that we had distinctions for that. That that was why you--
THERRY: The same distinctions exist for all the other philosophies as well. Now then, does those distinctions have to with a political standard, or does it have to do with a state of being?
EMELLE: I thought it was politics?
THERRY: How is it politics?
EMELLE: Because I thought whether you wore purple or not was one of the determining factors, and that's politics.
THERRY: No, that's nothing but a red herring. Stay with the little illusion that we're speaking about; there is no purple here, there is no Arkashea here, there is no Christianity here, there's just a philosophy; very generic.
EMELLE: Then I'd say I was peripheral based on the distinctions--
THERRY: But how can you say it's politics?
EMELLE: Okay, that wouldn't be politics; the purple is the politics, I thought. Without the purple, if it's just generic--
THERRY: But if you remove it and put just generic thinking in that same battlefield, can you see how it is not politics; it is spiritual? It simply means how much do you believe? And how much of that particular bullshit you swallowed?
EMELLE: Well, then if it's in regards to Arkashea, I'd be peripheral whether I wore purple or not. And what I feel in my heart.
THERRY: Exactly, so therefore, how can you say the title of what type of Arkashean you are, how can you say that's politics?
EMELLE: Because I thought that was based on whether or not you wear purple.
THERRY: No, it's based on what you believe; it's got nothing to do with what you do.
EMELLE: Well I thought you couldn't be a peripheral Arkashean if you decided to wear purple.
THERRY: But isn't that based on what you believe?
EMELLE: So I'd still say they were peripheral regardless of which little they didn't believe.
THERRY: Therefore, how can you make that politics?
EMELLE: I guess I don't understand your point. I thought that if you weren't willing to follow something in Arkashea--
THERRY: In your case, this purple bit is part of what you don't believe... your not taking into account that you made a spiritual vow to keep wisdom sacred.
THERRY: But does that change the fact that you still don't believe at all? Now bring it down to a state--why do you change the law?
EMELLE: Because I was making the distinction between purple belonging to the Monastery of Arkashea and Pharaoh, versus the beliefs belonging to the state of Arkashea.
THERRY: But purple in this case is simply payment for what you're receiving. It's a trade-off for a relationship; it's got nothing to do with politics.
EMELLE: Isn't that politics--a trade-off for a relationship? The relationship between people or groups of people?
THERRY: From that sense, yes; everything is political.
EMELLE: I'm not trying to argue here, I'm just trying to understand which level things fit on at this point in the conversation regarding Arkashea. I thought that the labels had to do with how much--I thought the distinguishing thing was purple, no matter what you believed, if you decide to wear purple--
THERRY: No Emelle, you're changing things. Purple is not the issue... It's simply a case of did you make a sacred vow or not?
EMELLE: I was saying that if I plugged in the details of Arkashea, then if I believed a certain amount, regardless of which things those things are that I do or don't believe, then that would determine where the dividing line was of label, right? I was confusing denominators.
EMELLE: Because I thought--
THERRY: Your emotions got into it, and the only way you can get rid of the emotions is by barring them by looking at it in a different point of view.
EMELLE: Then by that definition, I'd be peripheral if I wore purple or not. Is that correct?
THERRY: That is correct.
EMELLE: Well that's funny, because when I called myself a distant, I never felt distant. Felt like it was the wrong label. But I thought if I wasn't with you on the purple issue, then I had to be distant.
THERRY: The label's got nothing to do with it; purple has to do with politics; what you are has got nothing to do with politics. So now we showed you another way to try to find out when things are emotional and when they're not. Put them into a generic form, and that automatically bars the emotions. Now the only thing that you have to do is to make certain that you're honest when you do put it in that generic form.
EMELLE: So what's the generic form for the purple? The relationship-
THERRY: It doesn't enter it. If you want to find a generic form, a man goes to a market and he tries to buy something. He asks what is the price; the salesman gives him the price. He says, "I'll take it, deliver it to my house", and then refuses to pay. That's the generic form of it.
EMELLE: But how is that true when people came to study with you ten years ago, you never said in order to study with me you can't wear purple.
THERRY: It's in our laws. They've always read that. They've always read the phrase that purple is Pharaoh's color, and only Pharaoh can wear purple.
EMELLE: I think most people--
THERRY: Because they choose to forget it doesn't change the fact that it's still there and they still have read it.
EMELLE: I think people assume that that only means the people living here, and that's always what I assumed until a couple weeks ago. You told me purple was Pharaoh's color, and I said yea, okay.
THERRY: Nowhere in the law or anyplace else does it make the distinction, only people who live here.
EMELLE: You're right.
THERRY: It simply says If you are associated with Arkashea, in Arkashea, purple is Pharaoh's color. Only Pharaoh can wear purple. That's pretty plain. Everything else is a rationalization.
EMELLE: And that's at the level of the Monastery.
THERRY: If you put it in a generic form, you go to a market, you buy something. You ask what the price is. The price is you don't wear purple. Either pay the price, or don't accept the merchandise. That's the generic form of it.
EMELLE: So you ask that then of people that are not members of the monastery; just people that study with Therry. Is that what you're saying?
THERRY: I'm saying that you associate yourself with Arkashea. If you go into the market to buy some goods, you have to pay the price of the salesman.
EMELLE: why are you always going--are you going into the market? Well that's what I'm trying to find out.
THERRY: Therefore, either pay the price or don't accept the merchandise. That's the generic form. Isn't that just one more red herring for you to fight over? Does it matter what Kimm, or any of the other students--does it matter what they do? Is that any--does that have anything to do with you?
THERRY: Then what's with all of this shit about anybody else?
EMELLE: Because pattern-wise I'm trying to see if that fits the pattern. The generic pattern. That's what you mean by the market-place. Coming here at all to talk to you. Or do you have to consider yourself a member of the Monastery in order for it to apply?
THERRY: When you go to a market, there are many booths for you to buy from.
THERRY: Does it really matter which booth you buy from? Does that change the law of the market?
EMELLE: No, you have to pay for it.
THERRY: So, therefore what difference does it make if any of the other three hundred?
EMELLE: I guess it doesn't.
THERRY: So what's that got to do with you?
EMELLE: My same question. I'm trying to figure out. If someone asks you one question, does that entail going into the marketplace? If someone meets you on the street--not meets you on the street, `cause they wouldn't know who you were. If Sandy comes here and asks you five questions and never looks at you again, so she came into the marketplace--
THERRY: She had to pay the price. In her case she decided to leave the market because the price was too high for her. The law hasn't changed; still the same.
EMELLE: So how come you don't refuse to teach people that don't follow that rule?
THERRY: Arkashea judges none. Judgment will come from Karma, not from us. People are always throwing Karma away. They don't think it involves in their little unimportant things like that.
EMELLE: Which leads me to a question. Um, lightning came in my living room the other day--
THERRY: I know.
EMELLE: Now did that have anything to do with me going to the ritual? I mean I know lightning came into your living room and hit your TV and you didn't go to a ritual?
THERRY: Do you really expect me to answer that?
EMELLE: I'd like you to.
THERRY: Wouldn't that have the effect of governing your behavior.
EMELLE: Well I thought it didn't, and then I thought it did, then Jan said I was being insane and superstitious. I mean lightning came into your living room and did a whole lot worse to your TV than it did to mine, and you never went on any ritual.
THERRY: Didn't I?
EMELLE: You know what you're doing.
THERRY: What was the condition of the which lightning struck us?
EMELLE: During a thunderstorm.
THERRY: No sir. No, there was no thunderstorm.
EMELLE: He said you said you were supposed to be going to work, and you weren't; you were watching TV.
THERRY: That's correct.
EMELLE: How is that a ritual?
THERRY: What's the definition of a ritual?
EMELLE: Some sort of a ceremony where you either cast a circle, or you call up forces, or that kind of a ritual.
THERRY: Oh really? Get the dictionary. Let's read the definition of ritual. Go ahead.
EMELLE: There's two definitions. The one I was thinking of was a series of actions used in a religious or other ceremony. A particular form of this. Two, a procedure regularly followed.
THERRY: The first two are sufficient.
THERRY: Choose the first one again; what's it say?
EMELLE: The series of actions used in a religious or other ceremony.
THERRY: Or other ceremony--that means non-religious, right? Okay, what are the parts of a ritual?
EMELLE: Well, the opening of the ritual, the performing of the ritual, and the closing of the ritual.
THERRY: Okay, what's in the performing of the--what are the parts thereof?
EMELLE: Depends on the kind you're doing.
THERRY: No it doesn't; they're all the same.
EMELLE: If it's ceremonial?
THERRY: It doesn't matter if it's ceremonial or not; they're all the same; there's only one pattern.
THERRY: You perform certain behaviors that are very connected to or prescribe worth and limited by the ritual. Is that not correct?
THERRY: Alright. Watching TV on a regular daily basis, is that a ritual? Does it fall under that law?
EMELLE: It's not a ceremony.
THERRY: Why not? Just because it's non-religious, why can't it be a ceremony? In order to be a ritual, it has to be repeated over and over again at prescribed times, right?
THERRY: Walking, turning on a TV, sitting, watching, watching, watching, watching, then walking, and shutting off the TV. Is that not repeated over and over and over and over again?
THERRY: Does that not follow the rules of being a ritual?
THERRY: So why can't it apply? It doesn't matter if you want to put it religious or non-religious, somebody's crazy enough to attach religious significance to a boob toob, doesn't it apply equally? It's still a ritual.
EMELLE: Alright, then you were only addressing my words. You said--
THERRY: No I wasn't. I made the original statement; I put no limitations on it. I used the English language. What language did you use? Emelle's?
EMELLE: No I used English. Except you said you were doing a ritual by watching TV. I asked if I--
THERRY: The due process of watching TV is a ritual.
EMELLE: Okay I can accept that from your definition.
THERRY: No, not from mine, from the English language definition. The same way as the ritual of the bath. Every single time you go into your shower, there's a specific set of behaviors that you follow, and it's hardly ever varied.
EMELLE: That's true.
THERRY: That's a ritual. The ritual of sleep is the exact same thing. The ritual of driving a car is exactly the same thing.
EMELLE: Well I wanted to know if it was the ritual of, the ceremonial ritual from somebody else's religion that I observed.
THERRY: Every single one of these could be looked at as a ceremonial ritual.
EMELLE: Well how about the word religious, then?
THERRY: Okay, now you brought in something else. Who's to say what is religious and what is not. I dare say the Christians don't believe the Jews are religious; they believe them to be pagan. The Baha don't believe that somebody else is religious either; the Christians are fighting the Jews, the Jews are fighting the Christians, the Irish are fighting their Gods, or whatever, so who's to say what is religious and what isn't? From who's point of view?
EMELLE: Well does that mean if I go to somebody else's religious ceremony, and it's not my religious ceremony, then it's not religious?
THERRY: Seems to me it's religious only if you recognize it as such. But you can't lie there. Because either you really do recognize it as a religious, regardless if you believe in it or not, you either believe it or you don't. To you it is either spiritual, or it's paganism, but it's either yes or no; you can't be a little bit pregnant, and you can't be a little bit religion. Either it is or it isn't.
EMELLE: Well I believe it was; it wasn't my religion, but I think it was a religious ritual.
THERRY: So, to somebody, watching TV can be just as spiritually uplifting. You find difficulty with that?
THERRY: Let me see if I can help you on it. What if that becomes a magic pool that you can look into to see the behaviors of people; to understand thinking patterns, to understand the attachments between emotions and behavior. What if it is a magic well? A magic illusion granted by the Gods, or whatever you want to call it, but it is magical indeed, wherefore you can see man in all of its aspects interacting as man does with himself. Doesn't that make it spiritual?
THERRY: So can watching TV be a ritual? A spiritual one at that?
THERRY: Oh, what happened to your original statement?
EMELLE: Within the context of this conversation--
THERRY: Within the context of Emelle's mind would have been a better truth, because we haven't left the conversation, but now you have two ideas of what possible type of ritual watching TV is.
EMELLE: That's true.
THERRY: Emelle, all of us follow the first law.
EMELLE: That only says you have the opportunity to, so how does that--
THERRY: You certainly took the opportunity.
EMELLE: Well saying all of us includes you, since you're the one who said that statement.
THERRY: I had the opportunity too. But it's up to the individual to choose it or not, isn't it, according to his or her specific set of circumstances. Who's to judge? That's why it's so important that each individual get to know what's really involved before they make their evaluations; before they make their final judgments.
EMELLE: I've got a question that, you made a statement in the car that said that I would eventually have to make a choice?
THERRY: Yes, that time is coming where you will have to chose a camp and move into it.
EMELLE: I thought I've already chosen Arkashea.
THERRY: I can accept that. Seems to me, though, there are parts of you who deny that.
EMELLE: So what does that mean, exactly?
THERRY: It means you one day will make up your mind; you will know who you are. And for the better or for the worse, whichever the case will be, you will solidify into what you are. You will either solidify into what your father is, or you will solidify into what your mother is, or you will solidify somewhere in between `em, or maybe, if you're lucky, you'll solidify into something that has nothing to do with either of them.
EMELLE: So you don't mean any big mass ceremony where someone tries to steal my soul.
THERRY: Of course not. You read too many comic books. (laughter) or watch too much television.
EMELLE: You just mean the regular patterns of life.
EMELLE: Where I'll decide what I am. What if what I am keeps changing?
THERRY: So, you are becoming. One day you will arrive.
EMELLE: But what if you solidify and it's wrong for you, and then you want to change?
THERRY: Then you'll become again.
EMELLE: My understanding was an Arkashean--
THERRY: Nothing is for eternity, Emelle. Everything has its cycles. Things only last forever.
EMELLE: I had a dream, and in the dream the other night, you were there yelling at me.
THERRY: That's nothing new; I do that quite often.
EMELLE: I know. But you said, I don't even remember your exact words, see I need a tape recorder up there, too. I remembered it until I woke up. (laughter) And when I woke up all I remembered was the word commitment. And you either said I have to learn to choose them, or I have to learn to stick to them.
THERRY: Both. What I told you was that you have a confusion, a deliberate confusion between your commitments and your--the choosing of them, and the sustaining of them. You're going to have to get off your horse and choose one. In short, you're going to choose a camp, and you're going to move into it... If you don't make the choice then it will be made for you!
EMELLE: But isn't a peripheral Arkashean a camp?
THERRY: No, because they're not in the boundary lines of the camp; they're on the peripheral of the camp. It's better than being a floating, but still not in a camp.
EMELLE: But I thought that's why we had distinctions, because there were different distinctions for different levels.
THERRY: Yes, but that's not what you've been told. You've been told that there'll be a time when you will enter a camp, being on the outskirts of one means you haven't entered it; you are leaning towards it. And there's still much room for individuality, and much room for change. The time is coming where you will lose your individuality and you will lose the opportunity for constant change. You will solidify.
EMELLE: If I was to solidify towards Arkashea, does that mean I would have to live within the Monastery?
THERRY: No. Don't worry about this, it will come in its own time. Once it comes, it won't be a question of where should I--you'll automatically tell yourself this is what you're going to do. But the key is you, of you're own free-will, will tell yourself. It won't be somebody else that'll tell you. If you don't make the choice, then it will be made for you... When the walls of Arkashea closes, you will either be inside or outside; then it will be too late to make a last minute choice.
EMELLE: Is choosing to have a relationship and live in the world mean not choosing Arkashea?
THERRY: No, it's choosing to do things your way.
EMELLE: So is that not being a peripheral? Is that just not being anything?
THERRY: Emelle, that won't even enter it. When the time comes for you to enter a camp, you'll enter a camp. And all of this petty stuff we speak of now will mean nothing.
EMELLE: Even wearing purple?
THERRY: Even wearing purple. It will mean nothing at all. You will simply choose your camp, and that'll be that. You won't look back; you'll have no regrets. You'll just do it.
EMELLE: But what are the choices? What you've already said? Be like my mother, be like my father?
THERRY: Who knows?
EMELLE: Or somewhere in between?
THERRY: Or none. Nobody knows what that choice will be. We'll discover that when the time comes.
EMELLE: And is being somewhere in between my parents, if that was to be, is that like blasphemy? My chain will break and I won't have any ties to Arkashea?
THERRY: If your outside when the walls close, then yes. But I don't see how that applies.
EMELLE: Well, I guess I don't understand the attitude, I mean the concept of blasphemy. I know that it's ridiculing something you believe in, but--
THERRY: You can't be other than what you are, Emelle. One thing is for sure, you cannot be a pure carbon-copy of what you were. Nor can you be a true carbon-copy of either your father or your mother because you've learned too much. Therefore the chance of you being just like your Dad, or just like your Mom are pretty well impossible. But you can be variations of them. That's up to you. And again, understand that we're not saying that that is good, and we're not saying that that is bad; that's for you to decide. You know what their shortcomings are, and you know what their strong points are, at least some of them.
EMELLE: I don't want to be like either of them; I want to be like me.
THERRY: You will, in any case. You can be nothing other than you, but the you can copy each of them, depending on the values you choose.
EMELLE: Guess I'd like to copy Bill.
THERRY: That's a pretty honorable copy. Not because he is part of Arkashea, but simply because he has absolutely none of the attitudes that either your mother or your father has. He's not prejudiced in any way, he doesn't pre-judge in any form, he doesn't judge anybody harshly, he doesn't turn away from them, he doesn't horde what he has; he's just the absolute opposite of what they are.
EMELLE: That's why I've always liked him.
THERRY: Yea, but don't judge your family harshly; even though they do what they do what they do willingly, they can only be what they are.
EMELLE: That's true. I love them; sometimes I think I love them too much now that I love them at all.
THERRY: There's nothing wrong with that. They are after all, the seed from the tree which you came. You must always honor your mother and your father.
EMELLE: I'm very attached to them, and I don't really want them to die.
THERRY: Well, you have a problem there.
EMELLE: Well, I know they obviously will sometime.
THERRY: It is to their favor to do so; you wouldn't want them trapped in the state that they are perpetually, would you?
THERRY: Their only hope to continue is to die and to be reborn, and continue to learn. You should never wish to keep somebody trapped in the state where they're at. Should always allow them, and be joyous with them when it is time for them to start a new cycle. `Cause it means they now have a new opportunity to release themselves from the pain that they're presently in. But many people don't recognize it, but a lot of that feeling is based on selfishness.
EMELLE: I recognize it. They're my security in the world in a way, even if I never live with them again, I know that they're there if I ever needed them, as parents.
THERRY: But also as parents, that part of them which is there when you need them will be there still.
EMELLE: How so? They won't be here.
THERRY: Because the only thing you really want from them is their money; the security that that money brings.
EMELLE: No, that's not true. There's some thing about knowing that their presence is there even though they don't offer me much words of wisdom. You do that. But calling them and knowing that they're there as my parents, I don't know, it's hard to describe.
THERRY: I think if you investigated it a little bit more, you'd have to change some of your attitudes about them. Because what you're saying is that you're beginning to love them for themselves, not for their money.
THERRY: I think if that is happening, I think finally, that's good. Think it's about time. Which means you're beginning to understand a little more about man, the species and his cycles.
EMELLE: The feeling I get when I hear their voice; it's not their money.
THERRY: For so long it was just their money; and still is. But it's good to see that you're finally making a division between the two.
EMELLE: If it was their money I could say I wanted them to die faster so I could have it; wouldn't make sense to want someone to live.
THERRY: Not true. It is possible to want them to live so that they can get more of it.
EMELLE: I guess it's true, but that thought never did occur to me, until you just said it.
THERRY: Which is good. You're finally making a proper separation of what they really are. They are the sum total of a human being, just like you, doing the best they can with what they have; following the first law.
EMELLE: When someone ask how I pray, should I say I pray to to Thee, that which is the source of all?
THERRY: If those are your words, yes. Again, seek your chain. You may corrupt yourself in your desires; your chain will not be corrupted. Except for one small word, there is a difference. You use the word `thee'; I use the word `A'. When I speak to the outside word, it is A, not thee.
THERRY: It's more palatable for them. It's more on their level.
EMELLE: I remember asking you about reasons for being shy... I thought it came from fear... okay, so you said shyness was trust and not fear?
THERRY: Yea, shyness is an aspect of trust, not an aspect of fear. Remember that people have a tendency to like those whom they think like them, and people have a tendency to dislike those whom they think dislike them. It's one of the laws of interaction. The same way as people have a tendency to make friends with people who are easily available, and they have a tendency to break friendships with those people who are not easily available.
EMELLE: Easily available, you mean how?
THERRY: Both in time and in distance, as well as in emotional support. Those are laws of interaction?
EMELLE: Huh. Well I noticed that I was doing that. I noticed I was in a book store, and I was feeling very shy, oh, and judgmental, that's the third thing, so I would get arrogant, angry or irritated, or judgmental, depending on the situation.
THERRY: Okay, that third one, that judgmental, that's simply that same law again. There's an anecdote about the golden rule, only in this case, because of that third aspect, it becomes do unto others as they would do unto you, only you do it first.
EMELLE: Well this was judgmental in the sense that I felt very shy, and didn't know anyone, and was a new person in town, and consequently, as people came in the door, I noticed saying things like, myself, in my mind, oh she's an airhead, oh, she's cool, oh she seems very nervous, oh she seems very comfortable with herself, and--
THERRY: Can you understand, or recognize what you were doing?
EMELLE: Well, I was putting people in boxes so that I would feel comfortable with them and know what to expect.
EMELLE: And the thing is--
THERRY: Isn't that one of the first by-products of prejudice?
EMELLE: Yea, and it was also, and I realized that later, I also realized that it was all driven by emotions.
THERRY: Yes, well, not entirely, but, yes. Now, because of the first law of creation, you know the one that states that "All that which exists in the Chi shall be dual in its nature and triune in its effect," and because of the second law of creation, which is the basis for repeated patterns which the law states that "The creation of the one is within itself the implication of the creation of the other," you have to bear in mind that all things, including prejudice, are a continuum, and because of this, you can't make a blanket statement that's saying all things are good or all things are bad. A case in point is the continuum which we would call prejudice, for instance, is not all bad. On one side of the continuum, we call it bad because we call it prejudice; but the other end of that same continuum, we call it preferences.
EMELLE: That's true.
THERRY: So, you have to be careful.
EMELLE: But then, then how do you ever trust what you're seeing?
THERRY: It goes back to that continuum of belief. Some beliefs are Royal in their nature in that they have their effects throughout the entire continuum of beliefs, and, as such, they effect all levels of you. Other areas have limited effects, and limited levels, limited ranges, and they don't have their effects upon you except if you're within their range; usually it's a specific situation, or condition.
EMELLE: Is that jewelry? Is that a limited-is that that pattern? Limited effects within the range?
EMELLE: So, would you say, if you know that you're feeling threatened, or you're feeling some emotion, I mean threatened, even though it's not one of the five basic emotions, it's an emotion, so it's amplifying and distorting your perceptions, right?
THERRY: Okay, but now you've just made a blanket statement.
EMELLE: Okay, where?
THERRY: Just because you know that you're being threatened, that doesn't mean you're being threatened.
EMELLE: Okay, that's true, so how about if you believe, if you feel yourself to be threatened-
THERRY: Then obviously you're going to obey the laws of interaction which belong to that sphere of influence.
EMELLE: Well, so that means that--
THERRY: That may or may not have any basis in reality.
THERRY: But they will still control you.
EMELLE: Exactly, because Illusions are the Driving Force for Reality.
EMELLE: So I was sitting there realizing later on that because I had been shy, and I had felt threatened being new, that I immediately put myself on the defensive, and got very judgmental. And therefore--
THERRY: I'm glad you recognized that, that it was you who did it to yourself.
EMELLE: Oh yeah, but it blew me away because then I thought, well how can I trust any of my perceptions being here; I'm under great stress just from the situation itself of being in a new situation, not knowing anyone, and trying to address my fears by conquering them by going through them and doing these things that I'm afraid of, then how in the world can I assess-trust my assessment of things like schools, faculty, and other people, when I know that it's all colored by emotion?
THERRY: Well, from that you've learned one thing.
EMELLE: That what? Illusions are certainly the driving force for reality.
THERRY: No, everybody else is in the same boat.
EMELLE: Huh, that's a good point; but that even makes it worse.
THERRY: Well, it should help you understand the world better, and it should help you understand the necessity or the benefits of understanding the laws of the illusion.
EMELLE: Yea, definitely did.
THERRY: At least you have a beginning command over the laws of the illusion; they have nothing. Usually, anyway.
EMELLE: Yeah, okay.
THERRY: So that makes you capable of finding a way out of the trap.
EMELLE: Hopefully. Haven't done-I haven't done very well this life life so far of doing that. Well that's not totally true.
THERRY: It's a beginning. It's a beginning in either case.
EMELLE: I'm a lot better of a person even if I am still in the trap.
THERRY: What about those out there who do not have that ability?
EMELLE: That's true; they're really in the trap; they're in the trap with the door closed. Okay, so--
THERRY: To them there is no trap. That's all there is. At least you recognize that that is a trap, and as such, it's a special game with a special set of rules.
EMELLE: That's true.
THERRY: So you're still better off. It's not going to make it any easier, that's for sure. Certainly not going to take the pain away, but at least you can answer the question why. It's a whole lot more then they can do.
EMELLE: It's always been my favorite question. So, when you're in a situation, and you know that you're emotional, and you know that you're evaluating something based on those emotions, or at least those, not based on those emotions but those emotions are definitely interfering with your assessment, so you can say that that assessment is somewhere within the continuum of that reality?
EMELLE: That's the way to look at that?
THERRY: Yes, and isn't that where your Maat and your trade-offs begin interacting?
EMELLE: How so? Like in that particular situation, for instance?
THERRY: Is it not valid, that regardless of what you find yourself in, your Maat is going to take control?
THERRY: Is it not equally fact that regardless of what you find yourself into, you're going to make some form of evaluation and some form of trade-off in order to change what you find so that it suits you?
THERRY: Is that not, in fact, the interaction between your Maat and your trade-offs?
EMELLE: Yea, I guess it is. So, in that situation, I played the social game, I mean I--
THERRY: Isn't that a Royal Continuum interacting with a continuum that is limited within a specific range?
EMELLE: Which one is the Royal Continuum?
THERRY: Your Maat.
EMELLE: And which one is the continuum with the specific range?
THERRY: Whatever little belief system that you're working with that you're having the problems with your trade-offs in. For instance, in this particular case, you were talking about your trust/mistrust factors, and how that phenomenon brought about you pigeonholing everybody. So you had the interaction of the trust/mistrust factor within yourself, interacting with what's in your basic core, or your Maat.
EMELLE: That's true. Well my basic core--
THERRY: Can you see that it was the interaction between those two within that limited situation which became your Royal Steering Current for that happening?
EMELLE: Which part of my Maat was it interacting with? I mean, I think what's in my Maat is Understand, Forgive, and Love, so my behaviors--
THERRY: Now, wait a minute. What is Maat?
EMELLE: The inner truth. Your core--
THERRY: Is it limited? Is inner truth just one little tiny concept?
THERRY: So, therefore, when you evoke Maat, or when Maat is in effect, it's the whole thing, isn't it?
EMELLE: Yea, I guess, yea, that's true. So then it evoked a lot of things I wasn't aware of, as well as what I was aware of. And my reaction and behavior was to put on my best social face to try to introduce myself, to shake hands and smile, to do what the therapist wanted in the little situation that she gave us--
THERRY: But what is more important? To emptily go through those adaptive behaviors, or to sit here now and understand the laws of what you were going through.
EMELLE: Oh, to sit here and understand the laws of what I was going through.
THERRY: So were you not, in fact, in a situation which created a very specific game--
THERRY: --which had very specific sets of laws, which forced the interaction between a Royal Steering Current, and a minor current?
THERRY: Does that not help you understand the recipe that is called Emelle?
EMELLE: A little bit. Sure made me aware of one not-so-hot pattern I have. Because I realize I do it all over the place, and different things trigger it, but it's mainly me feeling insecure. It's mainly me feeling scared of something.
THERRY: Should that, as you get to know yourself better, also make it possible for you to understand why other people do what they do?
EMELLE: Yea, that's a good point; that part I hadn't thought of. How I thought of it was that it was meant to help me not do it anymore, I mean to realize--
THERRY: Obviously. But equally obviously, all things must be dual in their nature, remember?
THERRY: So if helping you grow is part of it, there has to be some other part to it, otherwise it's not dual.
EMELLE: Helping other people grow.
THERRY: Right. Not necessarily helping them grow, but you understanding how and why they are what they are. And thus the Triunity can come into it. Understand, Forgive, and Love.
EMELLE: Is that the triune in its effects part?
EMELLE: Huh. Is `its triune in its effects' part the Understand, Forgive and Love, or is that the third thing that's triune in its effects? Because it's--
THERRY: No, that is the--
EMELLE: That is the Triunity.
THERRY: Yea, the duality of it is you understand, forgive, and love yourself, and understanding, etc. for the others. The duality is you learn more about the laws of your illusion, and in the process, learn more about the possible illusions that others are forced to operate under.
EMELLE: So, getting back into that continuum--
THERRY: So if somebody comes up to you in that particular situation as some did, which was not exactly positive for you, then you could understand that it was not maliciousness on their part; they, too, were just as scared.
EMELLE: Well I noticed a few people that really seemed scared; I mean I always think that I hide mine well although that may, I may not.
THERRY: They probably think they do too.
EMELLE: Hum. There was one woman there who really perceived, who I perceived to really not like her body very much, and she reminded me a lot of a cousin of mine that had nose jobs, and breast jobs, and all this stuff, and I guess I felt kinda bad for her; she seemed so vulnerable; she had such a hard shell--
THERRY: Is there a parallel between these two that you spoke of, and Dem?
EMELLE: Dem never strikes me as that vulnerable.
THERRY: Look at the behavior aspect.
EMELLE: The behavior aspect is she's become increasingly obnoxious. But not--
THERRY: With that obnoxiousness, is it not also fact that that obnoxiousness is coming because of the rejection she's receiving?
EMELLE: Doesn't seem like she's receiving rejection.
THERRY: She is. Because how many people do you know of, while they are courteous before her, and they do call her woman, behind her back, or whatever, they refuse to recognize her as woman?
EMELLE: Well I know a number of people do that, me included. She wanted to be head of a group--
THERRY: And did she not also go through the surgical changes the same way as this cousin of yours?
EMELLE: Oh yea, I guess that's a good point. I never considered the parallel.
THERRY: Remember, everybody's in the same boat; man will either live together, or he will die together.
EMELLE: Yea, she did; I didn't consider it quite the same way.
THERRY: It's the same pattern.
EMELLE: But she did. Hum. Well how come she doesn't seem as nervous with herself; with her body? I mean, she does seem comfortable--
THERRY: Perhaps she can hide it better. Perhaps her illusion is a little bit different, considering she has a different history.
EMELLE: Well, that's a good point.
THERRY: Does that change the pattern?
THERRY: Does that change the laws which are in effect in all the way across the board of that specific illusion? Does that change the fact that the basic steering current is trust/mistrust?
EMELLE: Now how is that trust/mistrust in them?
THERRY: What, in their overall behaviors?
EMELLE: Yea, if you're uncomfortable with your body--
THERRY: Isn't that have a lot to do with the interaction between Maat--now if the society that they were into had not given them such a problem, do you think that the same behavior would have resulted?
EMELLE: No, not for--
THERRY: So therefore, isn't that a trust/mistrust? Acceptance/rejection?
EMELLE: Yea, I guess it is. Hum. So then if they're scared, then they're going to do certain things in their mind with people too.
THERRY: In order to--in other words, they're going to do exactly what you did. Just they'll do it, their version of it, and because it's a different Maat, different history, there's going to be some differences, but it's still going to be the same.
EMELLE: But they won't necessarily get like, irritated or arrogant, right? They might get something else?
THERRY: It all depends on the interactions that they bring into it. In either case, it will be their version of adapting to trust/mistrust; accepting/ rejection.
EMELLE: I did the same thing when I was in high school.
THERRY: Hey, you do the same thing under all conditions; it's a law of interaction; it's a law of creation. All life-forms do it.
Note: the next session (015) continues this conversation