Arkashean Q&A Session -- 036
LORRAINE: So why are my emotions so involved?
THERRY: Obviously, the emotions are the enemy. Everything else is a red herring to bring your mind away from the battlefield so that you can never really assail your emotions. They're protected, they're free to do what you want, but having you fight useless battles which can never be won. You can't even touch politics, nor can you touch religion. Those are illusions which cannot be fought.
LORRAINE: Well, then how do you fight your emotions and why are my emotions so involved?
THERRY: You keep asking the question why is (sic) your emotions so involved. Does it really matter why?
LORRAINE: Well, how do you stop 'em if you don't really know why they're involved? I can see the purple being a red herring, but if you acknowledge your emotions as the enemy...
THERRY: But isn't it true that if you keep asking yourself the question, "Why are your emotions so involved?" aren't you going to bring forth one more red herring?
LORRAINE: I thought that was the opponent - the emotions?
THERRY: The emotions are the opponent, not why the emotions are there. If you ask yourself, "Why the emotions are there?" Well, you did that once and you said, because of politics. Then you ask yourself again, "Why are the emotions involved?" Isn't it true that the answer to that is itself another red herring?
THERRY: When are you going to know, and how is it possible to know the real reason why?
LORRAINE: Maybe not. Maybe the real reason why is that I don't like limits. It doesn't stop me being emotional.
THERRY: I think you've come closer to the truth now, than you have in all your other wars, but that's besides the point.
LORRAINE: Well, I've told myself that and...
THERRY: Okay, let us say that you say that it's because you don't like limits. Does that matter? Are you any closer to fighting the emotions themselves?
THERRY: Because they bring forth nothing but illusions. Illusions cannot be won, they're created as quickly as they fall, you can never defeat them. It's like trying to kill a dead man. They regenerate themselves. Therefore what if you took a new tack, instead of fighting the red herrings, what if you adopted the attitude, "My emotions say this is so, therefore I will make it not so" and it didn't matter why. The fact that the emotions say, "Yes," you say "No," that's good enough. What would happen with time?
LORRAINE: I'd get an ulcer!
THERRY: Yeah, quite probably, but what else would happen?
LORRAINE: The emotions would lose power. I don't know. Does that happen?
THERRY: Yes. It would take a long-g-g time, depending on how strong your emotions have been in control of you, but after a while, logic would rule rather than the emotions. Take the monkey trial in wherever it was, didn't (sic) all the emotions were on the side against logic?
THERRY: So the fact that the emotions were involved...if you took the habit of fighting the emotions rather than the red herring, you'd make sure that there was justice there regardless of what the emotions says (sic).
LORRAINE: Does that mean that everything I want I should say "No" because my emotions want it?
THERRY: Oh, I don't think you'd have to become a fanatic. That would be rather stupid, wouldn't it? I want a drink of water..."No.!" Obviously, there are some things that you have to kowtow to, if for nothing else than survival. The key here is not to decide what to war against. That's not our intention. We don't care what to war against. We're trying to teach you who your real enemy is. And it is silly to fight every single war that comes along. Hopefully you'll chose them wisely, but that too is your affair, not ours.
LORRAINE: How come when I'm denying myself something, something inside me feels lined up. It's like magnets are lined up. Why is that?
THERRY: Perhaps you line up your soldiers to get ready for war.
LORRAINE: No, it doesn't feel like that. What is it really?
THERRY: That's what it is. Resentment is the first to attack, the first to stand at attention. Confusion is the next one, then anger is the next one and then resentment shouts again and it brings up all the others.
LORRAINE: So, it's my emotions and it's negative ones at that?
THERRY: Yes. That's the legacy you got from your mother and your father's teachings. Remember they have taught you, "The world is your oyster, you don't have to do anything, you can buy your way" and you finally began to believe that. That's one of the reasons why you became a hippie and a drug addict because you refuse to accept truth in its way, you fought against it, you wanted your money and what it would bring, but at the same time, you had no respect for it. You wanted to become one of the beautiful people and the hippie movement and the big choice of the Sixties, all along feeling guilty because you had money, but you ended up going with your money every single time, even while you...during that movement and said you weren't attached to it, you never did anything to endanger your money. You made damned sure to protect that.
LORRAINE: Yeah, that's true.
THERRY: At least you're more honest now than you used to be, so that's very good.
LORRAINE: Yeah, but what does it do if it doesn't change you?
THERRY: Well, we all follow the first law, Lorraine, "Each in their own way." You first have to know who you are before you can alter who you are. The problem is you've always looked at having money as though that was bad and that's just not true. There's nothing wrong with having money.
LORRAINE: Well, what's the bad part about it.
THERRY: What you do once you have it. It is possible for a person to have money and still be a very, decent human being. The problem is the majority of the people that have money aren't.
LORRAINE: Because of the values we discussed that you get once you have money.
THERRY: But you don't necessarily have to have...don't make the equation that money equals corruption, because that's not necessarily true, even though it seems to be in many instances.
LORRAINE: I guess one of the problems with me, now that I'm more honest with myself is that I'm afraid to see what I'll find.
THERRY: I don't see why you should be. You have to remember that you have to know who you are before you can change who you are. It shouldn't matter what you'll find. If what you find, you don't like, then at least, you will be able to change it, that is, if you want to.
LORRAINE: Most of the time, I have two paths in me.
THERRY: So does everybody else. Remember, everything, absolutely everything comes down to two paths, so it's not surprising that you have two in you.
LORRAINE: Is Wicken considered "of the Unholy Path?"
THERRY: It is part of the Arkashean path.
LORRAINE: So then it's not part of the Unholy Path?
THERRY: Not necessarily so. It is a joining point, if you will, a bridge from one path to another. From Wicken you chose which path you want to go. It's the same way with money. Money's not evil. Once you have it, you chose which way you want to go. So it's not the money that is good or bad, the same way it is not Wicken that is good or bad, it's the individual's choices once they reach that point.
LORRAINE: Yeah, that's the other thing that I'm afraid of - that I'll make the wrong decision.
THERRY: So what? You have to be what you have to be, you know. Everybody follows the first law.
LORRAINE: I've woken up every morning at like 3.00 in the morning, fighting with myself.
THERRY: I suppose that's a good past-time.
LORRAINE: It's not a good past-time.
THERRY: It must be, so many people do it.
LORRAINE: And I go back and forth, purple, not purple, purple, not purple. Why should I listen to somebody else? Why should I listen to someone else when it's something that I want to do? How will I ever change if I don't listen to somebody else besides myself?
THERRY: Why not simply listen to your emotions? Either go for them or go against them. That way you don't have to listen to somebody else, you can listen only to yourself. Just think how few the limitations you'll have. It'd be black or white. Either it's "Yes," or "No," you either go for your emotions or you deny them.
LORRAINE: Yeah, but I don't stick to them.
THERRY: Ah, okay.
LORRAINE: I make a decision, I get up, I live with it for a few days, and I want to change my mind, and it starts all over again.
THERRY: Well, perhaps it's because the change was really superficial, it wasn't a real change.
LORRAINE: Yeah, but then if I'm honest and say I want to wear purple, I want to do what I want to do and I also want to study with Therry because I love him as a teacher and what I wear purple and call myself a distant Arkashean because at that time that was the label that you said could wear purple, then when I did...
THERRY: Seems to me you're fighting a lot of illusions. Just because purple happens to be Pharaoh's color doesn't mean that it's really purple that you're really fighting. Again, it seems that what you're really fighting is your own emotions - your wants versus your shoulds. Seems to me your "wants" versus your "shoulds" is the battle ground that your emotions have chosen to place themselves in.
LORRAINE: Well then, if I decided my "wants" then I should have stuck to it to go on.
LORRAINE: But I don't. I feel guilty about it and then I go back and do the whole thing again and then when I follow through on a decision, I don't necessarily like it.
THERRY: Yeah. Perhaps it's because you've taught the difference between right and wrong, so now, there's no excuse for doing wrong. So perhaps what you should really do is first decide if it is truly wrong.
LORRAINE: Well, it's wrong because you can say it is.
THERRY: No, that doesn't make it wrong.
LORRAINE: Everything else you've ever said about my bad patterns, I could see for myself, so I could see if it was worth doing something about. This... the only thing I could see is that you said that it was wrong.
THERRY: You're not supposed to do that, Lorraine. You're not supposed to accept something just because me, or another person said it. Me don't mean nothing. I'm only another individual who speaks the same as all the other individuals of your species. I don't make laws.
LORRAINE: Well, when I put it on now, I feel funny, but I only feel funny because I have five million emotions from three weeks. I mean, I never felt funny when I put it on before.
THERRY: Therefore, would not your enemy still be emotions?
LORRAINE: Yeah. I guess for that matter it's emotions when I'm at things like rituals too.
LORRAINE: I went there for two reasons. I went there because I wanted to. That's the first reason. I'm not going to say it's not. The second reason was that it appealed to me because it didn't have the rules that you did, and I was trying to get away from your rules.
LORRAINE: And I was so fearful that lightning was going to come down and strike me down literally that I couldn't feel whether I could feel anything about it at all.
THERRY: So what you should do is decide what is right and what is wrong for you. Everybody changes God's laws so that they can follow them.
LORRAINE: Yeah, but that's not right, is it?
THERRY: How did "right" come into this conversation? Quote to me what the First Law is?
LORRAINE: "Everyone will lie, cheat, steal, even murder to get what they think they need out of any given situation."
THERRY: How does "right" enter that? Incidentally, the law doesn't say that everybody will, it says everybody has the opportunity to, because it doesn't necessarily mean that they will, because there are times when what they chose to do is right and therefore they will not have to lie, cheat and steal to do it. But, in any case, how does right or wrong enter that? It simply is. When you bring in words like, right and wrong, good or bad, that only has reference to the path that you chose. You're either going into Maya or you're either going out of Maya, which means if you have to bring in "right" and "wrong" seems to me that you're trying to disguise a path, make it palatable for you. Perhaps that's where you should put your attention to -- a little honesty.
LORRAINE: I decided last night....well, this week, when I called myself a distant Arkashean, it didn't really feel right, because I feel closer to the teachings of Arkashea than distant, but I also wanted to wear purple, so I figured that if I didn't want to do everything and if then, I had to call myself distant, so I was. But then it felt like if I was calling myself distant, I felt that distant people didn't follow the rules of Arkashea...
THERRY: Let's not say that they don't follow it, let's say that they follow their own rules far more.
LORRAINE: And then that I've decided last night that I believe in the rules that I've learnt here, except so far for the purple, but all of the rest of the things that I've learnt here and I wanted to follow...and I wanted to live my lifestyle like that...
THERRY: You remember the conversation you had a while back as far as doing something for the relationship as opposed to doing something for yourself? Is that what you're fighting now?
LORRAINE: How so?
THERRY: Well, what does it mean to do something for the relationship?
LORRAINE: You want to make your relationship to be stronger so that you make a sacrifice for it, even though it's not something you want to do, although if it's something that you really want to do, then that's not going to work. You have to, at some level.
THERRY: So you're talking about levels of trade-off for a specific purpose, right?
THERRY: But do you recognize it as a trade-off?
LORRAINE: Well with the relationship I do.
THERRY: Is it an unwilling trade-off, will it work?
THERRY: So therefore it must be a willing trade-off, right?
THERRY: What does that mean?
LORRAINE: It means that you can't be at war with it in order for it to truly work and serve the relationship.
THERRY: What does it mean to trade-off for the sake of a relationship?
LORRAINE: It means that you compromise...you give up...you either give up something that you want or you do something that you maybe don't want to do as much as long as it's within a certain band of values to gain something from a relationship to make the relationship stronger.
THERRY: What happen if you said that but in fact you begrudged it?
LORRAINE: You'd end up in divorce court, sooner or later you'd resent it.
THERRY: Now, let's take that pattern and superimpose it upon your war now, except that instead of your relationship with a lady friend, let's the relationship is with Arkashea. Has the rules changed?
THERRY: Is that what you're fighting?
THERRY: Oh, okay.
LORRAINE: But is that an illusion based on emotions? I mean it's my illusions that are at war with it.
THERRY: But isn't it the emotions that is going to determine the validity of the trade-off?
LORRAINE: Yes, but if that's true, what does that mean?
THERRY: What does what mean?
LORRAINE: If it's true, if that's the same pattern, if I am not wanting to make the trade-off of purple, if the only reason for doing it is because you said so as Pharaoh, which is why I was doing it in the first place...
THERRY: Question, let's bring the pattern back to your relationship with this lady friend.
THERRY: What brought the trade-off to begin with?
LORRAINE: Depending on how altruistic you are, it is...
THERRY: No, no, no, no, no, go back, back, back! You're not answering my questions. What brought about the trade-off, was it you or her? You think about it, I'll be right back. While you're thinking about, think about the difference between her asking that you not sleep with someone or Arkashea asking that you don't wear the color purple. Is there any difference? You think about it. Okay?
LORRAINE: No, there is no difference.
THERRY: So, now what?
LORRAINE: Now I guess it depends on whether if it's in your band of values or not to do what the other party asks?
THERRY: In other words, is it a valid trade-off? So I suggest that you battle with that for a while. You once said that you could never understand the concept of doing something for a relationship. Perhaps you have a better stage to play upon it now.
LORRAINE: Okay, so now I've got a question 'cause I can see it's the same pattern. So when your emotions begrudge the trade-off, so what happens, so you end up not in a good relationship?
THERRY: Exactly, the relationship breaks up, right? Cause and effect?
LORRAINE: But is that saying that if I wear the color purple that the relationship is going to break up between me and Arkashea? That I would no longer be Arkashean in any sense of the word?
THERRY: When you refuse to make the trade-off with your lady friends, does that mean that you could no longer speak with your lady friends?
THERRY: What did it mean?
LORRAINE: Depends on the person. With some people there was no change at all. With other people you may stop sleeping together, and still be friends. With other people still they could still be mad at you and never sleep with you again. I guess it depends on the personality of the other party that you're dealing with.
THERRY: I don't think that's valid. I think in some form the relationship has been affected and eventually the relationship will fall.
THERRY: If you knew that your lover did not care enough for you to make a small trade[-off] and as the relationship continued, that continued, would you stay with them?
THERRY: Doesn't that answer your own question?
LORRAINE: Is it the same thing with an organization?
THERRY: Is it? Why did you leave N.O.W.?
LORRAINE: I didn't.
THERRY: Yes, you did. For a while, you wouldn't go anywhere's near...[you] maybe you went back to it now, but you left it for a while. Why?
LORRAINE: Because I was struggling with the concept of whether it was right to be involved with politics because of Arkashea's...the Monastery of Arkashea's position towards politics...
THERRY: No, that's not valid. That doesn't fit with the discussions that you had with me.
LORRAINE: How so?
THERRY: Because the discussions you had with me had to do with the backbiting and the war that was going on in there and how you said that they were just a bunch of war...whatever it was - that it wasn't worth it.
LORRAINE: That's true. At the time, I saw that they were the same as everyone else. Since then I realized I've realized that how people are, that's how organizations are...you take what's there or you make a new one.
THERRY: So did you have a little touch of untruth there? A little red herring?
LORRAINE: How so?
THERRY: Because at the time, the reason that you left, according to your words was because of the war, the bickering, the fighting and the ineffectiveness because of it. But yet you just said the reason why you left was because you were thinking politics versus Arkashea.