Arkashean Q&A Session -- 126
SANDY: That's what ghosts are then?
THERRY: That's what ghosts are.
SANDY: Well what about ghosts of people who apparently didn't commit suicide? You know, they were like, hit by a car or they...
THERRY: Well, there's a whole Continuum to Suicide. Again, let's not call it suicide, let's call it murder. There's a lot of different ways of murdering yourself. Knowing that you're walking down the street or whatever and insisting on thinking about something else and paying no attention to your surrounding and you walk in front of a bus. Well, hey!
SANDY: Well, I mean when it's like real...
THERRY: You're responsible! It's murder!
SANDY: I mean like a car that goes out of control and comes up on the curb and kills you, I mean...
THERRY: Well, that's Karma.
SANDY: But for those kinds of ghosts...?
THERRY: That doesn't count.
SANDY: Well, I was just asking if you saw these...'cause I thought ghosts are people who tried to leave before their time is up, so they're still here...? What about the people who are still here who didn't do it themselves, but they're still here? Why are they still here?
THERRY: Strong emotions!
MERLE: It's like they refuse to leave because of the strong emotions. So you should read that chapter.
SANDY: So it's not because they went before their time? They're just keeping themselves here?
THERRY: Yeah because they're angry at something and the emotions are strong enough that they refuse to go on to the next set of experiences.
JERRY: Would the fact that Merle had known the guy who topped off years before be a reason?
MERLE: Well, I didn't really know him, I knew of him.
JERRY: If in fact she saw this guy rolling around, that was why?
THERRY: It's possible but there's no way of knowing for sure.
MERLE: No, I didn't really know him, Jerry. I just...I knew he lived in the building. He just happens to be as old a tenant as I am, so I knew him. Now this is interesting because one of the things I couldn't get it out of my head and everybody was just saying, "Ahhhh!" ...is, he jumped on a glass canopy, holding up a football helmet...
MERLE: Inflatable football helmet, well, he might've been wearing it, it might've flown off, I don't know. But to me...I can see where it maybe was accidental if you're crying out in pain, I mean. It's a child's thing too, not a football helmet, it's a thing they make for children, so...And then I actually said, "Jerry, do you think he looked over and saw the canopy and felt like maybe the glass will break the fall and this way I'll only be completely crippled and then they'll take care of me?" And Jerry was funny because he thinks, he said, "People don't look down when they commit suicide." And I thought... he said, they start in the back and just go, "Alright, I'm going to do it, sssswooshhh." I said, I can't believe it, I guess somebody could do that.
MERLE: But this is incomprehensible to me.
JERRY: I wonder how many people have looked down 42 stories and say, "1, 2, 3...I think I'd have to take a run at it."
MERLE: Well, because you look down and it's say...
JERRY: It's like getting in the pool. If the water was that cool, you wouldn't say, "Hmmm! This is right for a dip!"
MERLE: But you're looking at it from somebody who doesn't want to get hurt. This was a person...I can see from the drama sense, you know, the amount of drama you could have looking down, the woe is me, the whatever, I...to me it seems, it doesn't seem it could be...And then...
JERRY: It's a pretty big step...Heh, heh, heh!
MERLE: And then, jumping on a canopy? I bet he thought he'd break. The problem is that he went blind in one eye because he had some kind of genetic condition and he was going blind in another eye. I think maybe he wanted maybe to be taken care of because he knew he'd have to be taken care of pretty soon.
THERRY: Quite possible.
MERLE: He was going to lose sight in the other eye.
THERRY: Only he of course could tell, but it's quite possible.
JERRY: It was also, really interesting for someone who has such a fear of violence and...that you were the one that was insistent of going down and getting close enough to get a look at the guy when he landed.
MERLE: This was a total pull, I really felt...On the one hand, I felt I really wanted to face the fear but on the other way , I just felt there was some pull, it was something I had to do to fulfill something.
SANDY: Did you go down and look at him?
MERLE: Yes, I went down twice to look at him because when they took the sheets off him ...
MERLE: [Giggle] I said now I have to look at his face.
MERLE: I looked at him and the first time I looked at him his feet were hanging which was...
GUY: Ay-yah, yah, yah, yaye!
MERLE: No, but it was...
JERRY: I could see him from 8 stories up and I was getting nauseous and going, "Oh, God! I'm staying here!
MERLE: Yeah, but I was doing something else like...
JERRY: "...I'll cancel my appointments."
MERLE: 'Cause I, I...at least to my own mind, I understood that I was doing something and to me, it was something I had to do. It was something I wanted to do. You know, whether it was to fulfill something or get over fear.
JERRY: Like I said, that's an interesting want for somebody who is sitting there watching a movie, when the scary part comes, I mean...
MERLE: But that's different.
JERRY: The cover goes over the head...
MERLE: But I don't like...but a psycho murdering someone, that's a big difference.
JERRY: " ...and I've got to leave the room now..."
MERLE: That's a big difference, someone taking their own life and some psycho killing another person is very different in my mind. And it's the terror, you know how movies are, you know!
SANDY: Yeah the music...
MERLE: And the music, you know. I just don't like that kind of terror stuff. Well, this was not terror. This was a haunt, a ghost.
GUY: It's still funny you going back to the negative stuff, saying, "Wow, this world is full of horrible things" and there is one such horrible thing like a crushed body down your building and you just rushed twice to look at it.
MERLE: [Giggle] But that was not horrible to me!
GINA: You mean about the guy...you mean about seeing the guy over the ledge?
MERLE: Yeah, I looked out the window from the 7th floor and I said, "Oh, somebody just jumped." I didn't know if he jumped or if somebody pushed him, to tell you the truth, because he was a Brooklyn D.A. (District Attorney) and Gotti was being tried at that time and I said, "Oh my God, someone pushed him off the roof!"
SANDY: [Chuckle] Maybe it was them!
MERLE: No it wasn't because it turned out, he was the Assistant D.A. But you know the rumors were flying around, like "Gotti's guys got him." Yeah, so I look down and I see him under a blanket with his bare feet hanging out and I thought that was really odd. And then one of my neighbors calls and says, "Pssst, pssst. They're uncovering him." So I said, "Oh, are you're going down?" [Giggle]
MERLE: "What are you, crazy?!!!" "Why are you calling me then?" I said, "But thank you." [Giggle] So I went down. Which is one scientific thing, I want to say, I knew this guy's face, I mean I really didn't know the guy except than, actually he was quite a handsome guy, but he was always chronically depressed and hmmm, he'd just turned forty. His hair was stone white. Now I haven't seen the guy...
JERRY: After he hit?
MERLE: On the ground then.
JERRY: But his hair wasn't...
MERLE: By the way, there was no blood there, it wasn't gory.
JERRY: But his hair wasn't white the day before?
MERLE: ...when I knew him. Scientifically, what I wanted to ask was, is it possible the sudden terror of what you're doing or the adrenalin, could turn your hair white on the way down? I think that's what happened to him.
SANDY: His hair wasn't white before?
MERLE: No, he was a brunette, he was a young guy.
SANDY: You mean, only the jump itself had turned his head white? How long before had you seen him?
MERLE: Well, I'd seen him maybe four years before, unless...
THERRY: Because at that point...
SANDY: Well, he could've gone white before...
THERRY: At that point came the realization that he wasn't going to do what he thought he was going to do.
SANDY: He's not getting out at all.
THERRY: He's not getting out. And he became a discarnate before he actually made contact with the ground.
SANDY: This wasn't an accidental suicide?
THERRY: It was murder.
JERRY: Now, Merle also said that, uhmm obviously 40 stories off of a ceiling of an apartment building and on first a glass canopy and then on to cement, she said there was no mass, there was very little blood.
SANDY: No splatter at all?
JERRY: But he was compressed to the point that he was about four inches deep and she said his face didn't actually fit anymore.
MERLE: It was sunken, it was totally sunken.
JERRY: He looked like he was 85 years old.
MERLE: And there was no blood, you know! Guys, here you're making fun of me. I'm not crazy. I don't go down to see people splatter. He was actually, there was maybe a few tablespoons of splattered blood but there was no blood - he must've internally hemorrhaged because he jumped on the glass and I guess scientifically he broke the fall enough that he didn't splatter. 'Cause I thought it was a bomb outside. That's what made me know initially that that was what was going on.
JERRY: It sounded like that.
MERLE: There was a terrible boom outside. But I really think between the child's helmet and jumping, I will never get over, if you want to kill yourself and you jump off 40 stories, why would you pick a spot to jump off on to a huge glass awning? Why would you do that unless you thought that it would break your fall enough so that you'd just be only crippled or whatever and somebody would take care of you? Doesn't that sound logical?
SANDY: Yeah but by that same token, why didn't he just go up to the 8th floor and jump off a window, I mean?
MERLE: I don't know, maybe it's more dramatic?
CANDY: Is somebody thinking rationally when they're about to commit suicide?
MERLE: Yeah, I guess not, I mean...
SANDY: But forty stories! I don't think you've got much hope...
JERRY: Well, yeah, that's what Therry said. Yeah when you finally get to do it it's really rational.
SANDY: If it's intentional...
THERRY: If it is a true suicide, it's very rational.
SANDY: Remember, "Night Mother?"
CINDY: You wouldn't think they'd be in total insanity before they do such a distressing thing?
SANDY: Did you ever see Night Mother?
CINDY: Yeah well that was terrible.
SANDY: Remember how she so logically planned out every step of her suicide? And sitting down with her mother and saying, "Now, Mother, after I've done this, I want you to call the police and call this and make sure...here's all the phone numbers..." She did it, I mean, she was very rational, very logical and very calm.
MERLE: So in some ways, is that an honorable way to do it, if you're doing the two sides of suicide which is the end of the cycle of murder?
THERRY: The honorable way is to let nature take care of it.
MERLE: Let nature murder you? What? Yeah?
SANDY: How does nature take care of it?
THERRY: A lot of ways.
MERLE: See I thought that suicide meant you had to do it.
THERRY: You will do it but nature will give help.
GUY: If you're climbing a mountain and you fall off.
SANDY: That would be a suicide?
MERLE: You mean like a food or a disease, what exactly...?
JERRY: Like going on a safari and getting lost?
THERRY: Different things.
CINDY: Are you saying there's honorable ways to commit suicide so you're not getting stuck in a negative suicide Karma?
THERRY: No, you'll always be stuck in the suicide Karma. You can never get out of the suicide loop...
CINDY: What's the difference...?
THERRY:...if it is suicide.
CINDY: What's the difference between ...?
THERRY: But just because you kill yourself it doesn't have to be suicide.
CINDY: Well, then it's not...
THERRY: It can be murder.
CINDY: Well then you have murder Karma.
GINA: Did you ask him about...?
THERRY: You have murder Karma...
GINA: Like a Dylan Thomas or somebody like that who drinks themselves to death?
MERLE: Yeah I asked him about like Tennessee Williams who shot himself, Dylan Thomas...But no, not Tennessee Williams who shot himself, who drank himself to death.
GINA: No, someone who shot himself with a gun, but the guys who sit down in a bar for the next fifteen years. I've read about an endless number of poets who did this, they died, they died from drink.
MERLE: They drank and didn't eat. They just didn't eat.
GINA: That's uhm just more not having any respect for the body, right? And then somewhere along the lines, they're still going to have to learn that you've got to treat your body in a different way, right?
THERRY: Yeah, but that's still part of the Suicide Continuum.
GINA: Well then couldn't you say that being overweight is the same thing?
GINA: 'Cause you're not treating your body right?
CINDY: Why is sitting at a bar drinking as opposed to eating yourself to having a lot of fat around your heart and having a heart attack, why are they different?
THERRY: Because if overweight was that, every person who got overweight would have to die because of being overweight.
CINDY: If you eat enough and get overweight enough to have a heart attack though, every person who eats enough to get...
THERRY: You're not being logical, okay.
CINDY: Oh okay.
THERRY: You can't have, you can't be...
CINDY: Just a little bit pregnant.
THERRY: Right. You either are or you ain't...
CINDY: What about smoking?
THERRY: Same thing...
CINDY: Not everybody dies, so it's not suicide?
THERRY: Not everybody who dies, dies because they smoke.
CINDY: But many people drink and never die, are alcoholics but don't die from it.
SANDY: Well, eventually they'll pass ...
THERRY: Eventually they do.
SANDY: Eventually they'll have a heart attack or ...
GINA: Or in another lifetime, it'll keep adding up and adding up.
CINDY: I mean I doubt that. I mean I know lot of people who drank unbelievable amounts and lived until their 80s and 90s and never died. I know they died in the end of old age, you know, just like most of us die of...
THERRY: Yeah but see, the biggest problem here is the refusal to keep the separation between suicide and murder.
THERRY: It is possible to kill yourself and have it be murder not suicide.
CINDY: So smoking and drinking and eating might be murder not suicide?
CINDY: But you still have murder Karma then?
SANDY: How would you...when you said let nature do it...does that mean, don't ever deliberately take the action?
THERRY: Suicide is always a deliberate thing.
SANDY: So what were you talking about to let nature do it?
THERRY: The honorable way is not to involve somebody else.
CINDY: When you commit suicide...?
THERRY: If you must do it, which is always terrible, there is no niceness about it, but we're not talking about niceness, we're talking about honor. The honorable way is not to involve somebody else. Don't leave somebody else a mess to clean up.
SANDY: Oh okay. I thought you meant let nature do it, wait for lightening to strike or something or...
CINDY: They say that if you really have a mournful bad attitude you'll develop some terminal disease, if you have enough anger, sorrow and misery.
THERRY: Providing, of course, that's within your Karma. I've known a lot of witches on wheels that are still going strong in their 90s.
SANDY: [Chuckles] Well, how about if I have the tendency to be self-destructive?
THERRY: I'm sure you'll find some way of destroying yourself. People with self-destructive attitudes usually do.